What project boat should I pick?
 

Looking for a project boat to restore, the most important thing to me is ride quality, and handling, speed is not important because I think all the boats listed should run 60+ with mild power 385HP-420HP. I would prefer a single I/O, but will consider a twin I/O, and a hull with no pads or steps. what would you pick and why?

Look buddy, If you are just some kind of masochist, just come down and help me work on mine. I'll buy the plane ticket, you can work on it until you are worn out, and then fly home. You aren't even out any money.

No need to do this to yourself.

:D :D :D

Never seen a 28' Cigarette with a single. Did they make that?

Hey KaamaScarab30 thanks for the invitation, If you fly me down to practice on your boat, do you promise to come up and help me with mine.:D

Raimn, You may be wright about the single in a Cigarette, also every Magnum I've seen has twins. I'm going to edit my post saying I would prefer a single but will consider twins.

Kirk

KN, my vote went for the 28Pantera. you are looking for ride quality? This is the boat. DangerKitty2 from here on the board has one, Sarasota in April was freaking rough, but he handled it great, right up there with the OLs and bigger vees.

And correct me if i am wrong but no steps on that boat.

Forgot to mention DangerKitty2's Pantera is a single.

I know and have been watching a 24 Pantera project with 3 2.4s dangling off the back. WOW is the word

KN,
They’re all nice boats. I like the Cig with some mild engines like these.
Dan

I would say for rough water, and you want a single engine, got with the 30' Superboat. If you will deal with twins, got with the Apache.

I say skip the project thing and just by my 28 saber, built like a tank, bigger inside than a pantera and one of the best riding 28's around. Won the 1994 offshore performance award in powerboat. Why a 28 saber you ask? because i'm trying to sell mine. (wife wants bigger boat!) and who am I to argue

Dan

If you want single I would definatly consider the superboats. They are very narrow but man do they handle the rough stuff well.

Jon

Apache
Nuff said

Thanks for the replys and the votes.

Candyman35 is that a 28' Cigarette, those HP-500's look like they have ProChargers on them. Looks like a nice ride.

BuzzinBye thats a beautiful Saber, I've checked it out in the classifieds. I look at Sabers to, great boats, just forgot to put it on the poll. I'd love to take your boat off your hands. Send me a PM on what your bottom line on your boat is.

Kirk

Regarding project boats:
One that's listed in your banks blue book or Buc book, so you can easily sell it and insure it.
One that's not painted, it will blister and paint can be used to hide repairs.
One that has good stringers/transom and a non cored hull. These repairs will wear you out quickly.
One with no gelcoat cracks. They almost always point to structural defects.
One with good access to under deck space and the engine compartment. Makes rerigging of electrical/hydraulics easier. Full inner liners suck.
One that has not seen salt water. Just try to rebuild a saltwater gimbal and you'll know what I'm talking about.
One with bravos. I know the uppers are weak and the gimbal rings wear out. But a rebuilt TRS will cost about $4K, a new bravo is around $3500, and merc has doubled the prices on TRS stuff.
If you get frustrated during the project, dont burn it, sink it. The penalties for arson are much greater than for simple insurance fraud.
Gary

and I repeat
APACHE
NUFF SAID
Jason

I made my choice as follows. I think you should get the biggest one you can afford... you'll use it longer before feeling the need to upgrade. The ride between 24 & 28 feet is noticibly different. And it doesn't cost all that much more to fix up a larger single than it does a smaller single.

I voted for the 28' pantera. My other choice was the 28 cig. I know people with both (and somebody that's thinkin about selling their 28' cig) The pantera seems to have more cockpit space and more freeboard. The 28' cig back ends sit real low in the water. They're very heavy. But resale wise, you'd probably get more of your money back out of the cig.

Good luck, have fun.

Thanks for the advise Gary, I would prefer to find a boat without power and drive. Most of the boats I've looked at are early 70's through mid to late 80's. I know what your saying about cored hulls. So let me ask you guys this, what boats in my list have cored hulls in the years I mentioned.

Thanks, Kirk

A boatin buddy of mine has a 1973 27 magnum, mint as the day it was born. This boat is a real clasic, awsome lines great ride, what a killer looking boat.

AC is selling his 28 cig and it has twin small blocks backed with brand new not rebuilt TRS drives on them
Nice ride but still the 28 range that your looking in is a tough situation
some 28's handle and ride like a small boat and other 28's like mine handle and ride like a tank
I chose my 28 Baja for a few reasons
first it is really 30 feet with swim platform (moulded in)
it was inexpensive
It has stock twin big blocks with bravo drives
HIGH HIGH freeboard
good looking boat
perfect size to weekend on
has a huge cabin for its size
and potential was there to do just about anything I wanted to do.
Now for hull designs
apache and cig are probably the 2 best up there in my opinion.
but for that your going to pay for it too.
what is your budget?
the prices of the boats you put up are litereally all over the place
a newer solid 28 apache could run you 60 grand plus depending on what was done to it
cigs are as a guess 35 to 50 ish depending on year and power.
the rest are probably 25-45 thou ish depending on power.
I am in no way saying the other hull designs are bad or they are a poor choice by any means but 28 ft hulls are rough to make
because of the size, when you take off and before you get on plane that is about the size that for about a few seconds your not going to be able to see jack squat until you plane out.
you get into 38-40-42-45 ft boats, they dont bow rise that much due to lenth and weight up front
28 will really suprise you that all you see is the freakin MOON until you get up on plane and trim out.
28's are very deceiving in size
they look big on trailers you drop them in the water andyour like wtf is it? and then you pull up to a 24 footer and your like damn my hooptie is huge
alot of manufacturers had tough times starting out with this size boat cause of its characteristics, runs mid range like a bigger boat, but is light enough to handle mid range like a smaller one. I believe that is why Baja put alot of hook in their hull to get the 280 to calm down a bit and not chine walk, the earlier 280 sports were HORRIBLE
the ES version came out with more hook in the hull and calmed it down about 80% but with that came reduced speeds with same power.
I have seen 28 cigs and apaches run with the big boys and not shutter an inch in the presence of big monster 38 + boats but have to handle the rough stuff in a different manner than the larger brothers.
but like Mach1 Shorty said
get the biggest boat you can possibly afford so you dont have to upgrade in 6 months (has happened to a few here)
You always want something bigger until you have something in the 38 range on up
Try to get the biggest you can and it will lengthen your satisfiedness of your present ride
Good luck
Jason

They did make a 28' Cig single. A guy who worked for me had one. With a 454 it may have run mid 60's.

There was a 26' HUSTLER listerd awhile back that need work. Maybe some one still knows the ad.

If your looking at a boat that age, I hope you're planning to strip EVERYTHING out and start over.
Do you know how to wire a boat?
Do you know the difference between JIC and SAE hydraulic fittings?
Have you done any glass work? Do you know the compatibility with polyester, vinyl ester, and epoxy?
Do you have a source for cheap used parts.
Old boat economics 101: If you need to put a lot of new parts in an old boat, you end up with an old boat costing as much as a new boat.
You're better off starting with a trashed boat (good hull) with bad engines/drives rather than no engines/drives. The little parts, pumps, alternators, brackets, mounts, drive & gimbal parts, hydraulics, etc.add up to A LOT of money if bought new.
Gary

I totally agree with Gary A on this one
and to add to it,
whatever you think your going to spend on stuff
triple it and your lucky if you break even

I am about 15 thou in to my project so far and she runs but not well enough for my tastes
Holley carbs 830 CFM Times 2 at $770 each equals bend over and try to kiss your own ass
hows that?
That is my latest problem lol

but a car carburetor at 830 cfm holley is about 389
Just a little glimpse as to what your facing when you redo engines and so on
I wont even talk about gimbal rings, bearings, boots, transom plates, water in your hydraulic trim struts,
Most important
get a good hull with good wood in it (stringers HAVE to be solid or your going to hate your boat for the rest of your life and you would not be able to sell it cause no one would want it)
If you want something you can just jump in and go out on, look for newer boat
anything 10-12 years old has probably been neglected and needs an ass full of stuff
cant avoid it water kills boats
seems nuts but anyone on there will back that statement up 150%

Oh you might want to join the tool tossing club if your going to take on a project like this as well
Me, Audio, Too old, Allan4, RCM255, Cord, and others are members.
Hey, who holds the record on a regular size 3.8ths rachet for distance?
I think I hold the distance record of throwing an intake manfold about 35 feet and a riser about 50 feet

Jason

Jayl13
"I am about 15 thou in to my project so far"
OUCH!!!!!!!!
"Hey, who holds the record on a regular size 3.8ths rachet for distance?"
Does that include the depth of water it sank in?
KN
For reference: I'm looking at putting together a 86, 31' Wellcraft Cat, 540s & ASD6s. If I cant do it for under $22K (including trailer), I wont even bother. It's not worth my time or the aggrivation.
BTW, plan on skipping boating for a summer. You'll end up waiting for parts, machine shops, etc.
Gary

Hey Gary, long time bro
Miss the 38 scab yet?
Yes I still have it as a screen saver on my pc

Yeah about 15 g's so far
Now im stuck cause the new engines dont like the rochesters and are running lean and poofing out the carbs
So enter Mr Holley
at about 1500 bones
so lets bump that 15 grand to 16500 now.
Does it ever end?

No the 3/8ths rachet tossing contest does not count distance to the sea floor, cause if your out and have a rachet in your hand, the other hand should be on the VHF calling your buddy asking if he has a rope good enough to tow your ass in !!!!

Oh yeah one more thing
If you are married, engaged, or have a very serious girlfriend
I do NOT suggest you go with a project boat
cause the boat will have tons of loot dumped into it and for her birthday you will be able to afford to get her a news paper, and make paper flowers out of it and a gum ball machine plastic toy for her cause you need intake manifolds, and those damn riser gaskets again and again and again, oh damn I need a different fuel line, and the machine shop put this on wrong and that and this and that and this
why dont they make stuff for cars like boats?
cause boats are different so forget ANY short cuts with car stuff other than oil filters (and you better buy a damn good oil filter too)

Jason

Jayl13
Just drove the 38 a few weeks ago. Sold it to a friend, but he's trashed it pretty good. Probably holding the block together with epoxy (other thread).
I still want to go fast once in a while, that's why I'm looking at the cat.
BTW, I've got more bad news for you. The Qjets are spreadbore, the Holley's a squarebore. You're going to need an intake manifold too. Ouch.

"If you are married, engaged, or have a very serious girlfriend
I do NOT suggest you go with a project boat"
YEP!!!!
But it is a pretty effective way to get rid of one.
Gary

Well I just bought 2 polished performer manifolds for these blocks and they are spread bore yes
but the manifolds are drilled and came with gasket and adaper plate for square bore carbs so no worries my friend.
that part was the one thing that DID work out in my favor.

He TRASHED IT?
OH your kidding?
Dude, take him in the bathroom, shut out the lights and beat the piss out of him.

As for the girlfriend
dude she looks yummy from here LOL
but I hear ya, good way to get rid of one too, they will feel as they are in competition with an inanimate object.
My wife is the most understanding woman I know (reason I did the one knee bit with her!)

she still gets pissed off at the boat all the time though.

Jason

IT ALL SOUNDS LIKE TOO MUCH WORK....LETS HAVE ANOTHER BEER

I have done three projects over the last 8 years or so. My 2nd was a 1978 24' Pantera. I absolutely loved that boat but sold it to move up to an 8.8 Meter Fountain and am wishing I still had it. If I ever see it for sale I would buy it back in a heartbeat. It is super in rough water and with a stock crate GM 502 ran mis 60's on gps. If any one tells you that they are money makers thay are lying. The parts costs you get back when you sell but you work for about $ .02 anh hour so it had bettrt be a labor of love. I will definetly take on another project in the future. Buy an old 24 Pantera!

Hey guys thanks for the concern, I realize how much work and money is involve, I'm looking for a project to do over the winter, I'm in no rush and don't care if it takes 3 years to finish, my boating season is only 7 months long, and it's a long winter. I have a 32' boat with power that is still under warrenty.

PS. I've found one of the above boats with power (not running) Bravo 1 drive, they claim the hull is in great shape:rolleyes: we'll see for around $ 7,000 I'm going to take a look at it in a couple of weeks if it's still available.

Thanks Kirk

PS. B.R.S. nice Pantera

I would do a 1972 Magnum 25. Hey, I happen to have one that I would sell for a very fair price. Some of the resto work is already started. Check out www.chevalfarms.com/magnum.html or email for more info.

The Magnum is the king of ride quality.

I have restored a 27' Magnum. It's been a labor of love for 3 years. The boat handles great and looks absolutely sexy!!

Magnuman, Your boat it one of the nicest boats I've ever seen, It is absolutely beautiful. The new scoops on the hatch look great.

Kirk

for pics of classics check out seans site at thunderboatalley.com... lots of pics and info...btw his old 28ss is for sale... im selling it!... ted