Hp3..........hp525efi........?
 

Ok so now we will have two motors to choose from that push 525hp? One a 502ci and the other a new 496.

According to Powerboat mag the HP3 will be in production for pleasure boats in 2003. Really great looking motor, page 41 Sept. 2002.

Anyone have any info as far as pricing, weight etc........... I cant imagine both would stay in production for long.

The 502 by Mercruiser with a mercruiser drive and the 496 by GM/Vortec with ? drive. Then if any boat manufacture who buys from GM, --Mercruiser then refuses to sell them other engines and drives. GM need to have a non-mercruiser gimble and drive.

I don't think mercruiser will start to play that game. If they do then GM can stop selling them motors. And GM can afford that but mercruiser cannot.

Dan

Merc is getting undercut on this one BIG TIME...But hey, It's GM's motors and they can do with them as they please, right?

GM wants to sell Merc the motors ready to go out-of-the-box, just add fluids and a drive...Merc doesn't like doing that because it kills their profit margins...they'd prefer to buy blocks, add some good internals and sell the motors with a $20,000 blue paint job.

It'll be interesting to see where this leads. All in all, the HP3 is an excellent power-plant! :cool:

The HP3 is marinized and built by Innovation Marine in Sarasota.
Mercury says that they are "eager" to run against it with their new 525. We'll see what happens.

Based on the above info that would make the GM/Vortec less expensive?
Does any one have any pricing info yet? Looking to do a new boat and trying to decide which way to go:confused:

I have heard from a few sources that the 496's make more torque? Any truth to this?

I heard Ford was also set to return to building marine engines.
Ayone else hear anything about this?

DallasHeat

hp3
 

I jusy want to know how much and who can turn
my hp2 into an hp3, should be good for 5mph.

Yeh what Frank said, It would be nice to see some reliable high hp GM crate motors without the $20,000 blue paint job!!

Ford was partnered with Sterling to build marinized versions of its V8 and I think V10 engines. Unfortunately that plan is on hold, since Jac Nasser ran Ford into the ground before he was shown the door...

Re: hp3
 

HP2 --> HP3: Cam change, programming, exhaust! That's it!

425HP --> 525HP:D :D

Here's another interesting tidbit...The Vortec HP3's racing the circuit have the same cast crank that the HP1 does.(So will all the 496's come next year).........

From what I've read and heard the Merc 525 is a better engine but should also cost more than the GM HP3. I believe the Merc motor has better internal components, pistons & rods.

BTW, upgrading to the Merc 525EFI from the HP500, wholesale cost difference is $4,000/engine.

Merc 525EFI Picture

Merc 525EFI Info

At 525 hp and 5200 rpm do you need the 'better' internals of the merc or if the cast holds up why overbuild.
Numbers control costs. Gm sell more 496 truck engines in one day than Merc sells in one year. They have how many million miles of testing and usage to see if the cast crank holds.
Reggie tried to do his own engines several years ago and merc squeezed him and the project cost him over a million.

Cobra,

That's kind of what I was thinking, too.

Perhaps, some GM Vortec racers can chime in...How many failures have there been with the HP3's and what kind...

From what I've heard so far, there have been no bottom end problems whatsoever. Just minor problems like hoes leaking and overheating and chit like that.

Steve, you out there? :cool:

In SVL one and two it is the GM engine the one to have.
The guys that were running mercs switched to GM.
I wonder what changes merit a $4000 price change?
Where is the popcorn?
pat W

Shifter,
What do you mean with the 4G comment?

From what I understand, GM Vortec had a VERY Lucrative deal this year when using their HP3's.

If ya keep your "hoe" properly lubed and in shape, she won't leak or overheat on ya! :D :cool: :D

LOL! Lavey! :D
You're absolutely correct on that one! :D

Um no the marine mkt is like 40% of there big blocks which is why they finally decided to pay attention to it. And all those miles of truck testing mean nada, unless the trucks were loaded with a yard of gravel in the bed and tested with the pedal to the medal going up a 12% grade for an hour or two, being normal everday usage

Baha Daze,
It was what Ricks said earlier about the 500 to the 525 merc cost.
I think what GM did this year was tremendous, If racers like and win with it ,it sells. It beats any proving ground.
pat W

Nick is right on here. To my knowledge, there have been no major failures of the GM Vortec HP3 in APBA SVL racing. There have been issues with motor mounts which are not manufactured by GM that have created some interesting problems, but that has been addressed and is being corrected.
Not sure about leaking hoes, but the GM Vortec Solarized team has experienced no major engine failures this season. We have broken an IMCO drive input shaft in Daytona, and had a water hose failure outside of the gimbal in Savanah. In the later the GM guys were all over it, and found no motor problems. We took it home, replaced the hose, fired it up and it's been screaming every since.
GM has no intention of selling marine engines to the public. Their customers are companys like Mercruiser, Crusader, Volvo Penta, and so on.
As for the marine market being 40% of all big blocks, I can't confirm that one. But, I can tell you that GM has, without a doubt, been very involved and pays CLOSE attention to the marine market and the performance of ALL their powertrains. This last week, I had the pleasure of running the 25' Baja Outlaw with the GM Vortec 6.0 through its paces. I had a blast in that boat. When I got back, I figured I'd be in trouble for abusing their equipment, (which I did). Instead, one of the GM engineers was there asking me what I thought of the engines performance.
Actually, GM Vortec's participation in APBA racing carrys that involvement to the next level. Indeed, the very engines many of you run in your newer trucks and vans are quite probably an indirect result of the testing, (abuse) and racing, (serious abuse), that we APBA offshore race teams have put them thru. And believe me, it's our pleasure to work and slave in a hot boat all day. Allowing no compromises so that we have a better engine under our hatch, and under your hood.

Gordo,
Thanks for your valuable inputs. That's just what I wanted to find out!!

That 25 Outlaw you drove with the 6.0L....Is that the one that Thunder Marine Out of St. Pete was running in the Worlds last year? I think it was P5-25?

:cool:

Thanks Shifter...That clears it up! :cool:

I think that's the one.

I spent the first part of this week in Santa Barbera running boats with the boys from GM. There boats had the Vortac Engines and where nothing short of impressive. From what I gathered the engine will not only prove itself with power , but longevity. I would also venture a guess that the custom builders will find this a great new starting point for our Big Power engines.

Sheesh, anyone else getting confused?

Gordo seemed to clear it up. Or am I still lost. I never took it that GM would be selling the HP3 to compete with Merc. It's just like the 502 which is a GM motor and Merc sells as a Mercruiser 502. I'd expect this to be a Mercruiser HP3, which I was assuming that would be the eventual replacment for the 500EFI.

I thought the Vortec corresponded to the same name in the truck motors and was a name for the type of motor, not the name of a separate marine marketing effort. Or am I just way off here? I don't follow the crate motor thing, etc as I have never had to nor wanted to swap motors.

I'd suspect that GM would rather sell to Merc, Volvo Penta, etc as a buffer for warranty issues. I always though Merc did the things they do since they were the ones covering the warranty and they do that 24/7 where GM makes cars.

I seem to be getting confused cause the implications are that GM will be selling these to joe schmoes or boat manufacturers. I would think GM would not want that. The Merc buffer seems to be a good thing. GM has less hassles and Merc makes some serious bucks, or so it seems for upgrade prices:)

In need of some edumacation here.

Mark

Me too!:confused:

Mark and Blackhawk,
I apologize if I have added to any confusion. I'll see what I can do to help out here...
I'm not sure if the Vortec HP3 will be the eventual replacement for the 500HP efi, or another future option added to the Mercury lineup. I think I'm just as anxious to find out as you'all are.
The GM Vortec 8100 you find in the GMC and Chevy trucks is the same GM Vortec that supplys the motors in our race boats. I don't think there is a specific seperation from trucks and marine. It's still the same GM Vortec. General Motors is simply using select APBA race teams in Super V Light as a test bed for their HP3 powerplant which has, and will, benifit both GM trucks and GM based marine engines.
As for any implications that GM Vortec will be selling to the average retail customer or direct to boat manufacturers, I hope I wasn't the one to say that. I suspect, as you do, that GM Vortec builds great motors, but is more than happy to let Volvo, Mercury, Crusader, and so on handle the marinizing and marketing end of it.
I hope this helps, at least a little bit.