Arneson Drive ???
 

I am buliding a bbc 572 motor on my 26 Scarab and have a bravo one drive everyone said i'm going to blow it up on the first run.
So i am making some resurce and found Arneson ASD6 conversion kit for bravo.
Has anyone here used this ? And if its so good why all boats are with this drive ?


http://www.arneson-industries.com/pa...ravoConversion

Probably initial cost!

I have ASD7M's and they've been problem free. Give Rik a call at Arneson, he's a great resource. Jim

Arneson are great drives!

Sounds like a great setup for you boat you will love it!

Yes you will break/blow/prematurely wear out ANY bravo based drive. In the long run keeping a bravo based drive is a payment plan rebuilding them constantly. Plus who wants to baby the sticks????? Might as well get a pontoon if you have to drive like a grandma....

All boats do not have Arneson's ONLY because Mercury has the market controlled by selling ENGINE and DRIVE packages.

A new Arneson Bravo conversion cost less then a complete new XR sitting on an extension box with transom assembly when rigging a boat new. So initial cost is NOT why you do not see more of them.

And the cost of the conversion if very reasonable when you consider everything, and less expensive then converting to any other drive that wishes it was as good of a surface drive...

Is the transmission included in the Bravo conversion kit when you compare pricing ?

It was when I did mine back in 07. They came with Bam 1350's.

I recall a particulary interesting discussion about this very topic back in 2003 when I would lurk around here periodically.

The point was raised that a surface drive is arguably a superior way of getting power to the water, so why aren't they mainstream?

It was acknowledged that Arneson's lack of an engine and drive package is the main barrier, but a very insightful gentleman (SuperTremoli was his handle here, I believe) appropriately pointed out that the traditional stern drive configuration has a resolute, unyielding cultural acceptance that will always be very difficult to change.

I'd have to agree with that assessment. The stern drive has its place, and works well enough for a great many applications, but the surface drive could do a much better job in most cases and should be more common.

It could rightly be said that Mercury has ruthlessly maintained a status quo for themselves that's had ripple effects on the industry at large.

Obviously, it is very good for business if everyone is out there grenading Bravos, only to rinse and repeat. Merc doesn't want that to change, it's their bread and butter.

For this and other reasons of similar nature, it is difficult for me to regard the company with anything but cynicism.

everybody likes to bash Merc and the bravo drive, but with stock power levels they are problem free, they are light compact and don't require a transmission. Yes abuse them or overpower them and they break how is that Mercury's fault?? Also I am pretty sure Mercury is not getting rich selling Bravo parts, I have a feeling selling engine packages to OEM's is the bulk of the business.

Not knocking Arnesons or any surface drive but in the right application Bravos work.

Stock 496s outlast bravos X drives by two to three times as many hours.....that's not right.

Yes bravos are a good drive at stock power levels UNDER 500 but they are not perfect.

Bravo XRs do NOT last behind stock merc 525s or 600s.

Actually they ARE getting rich of selling parts. That's where the money is. The cost to make a set of gears is Penny's on the dollar compared to the $1800 price tag for those gears. Its mind blowing how cheap they mass produce those weak azz gears.

I read and read on these serfice drives . Thats the way to go if your looking for big motors .
Surly i am going to blow my bravo so If anyone knows of a used Arenson bravo convertion kit let me know i buy it.

See this
http://youtu.be/Of1RY4M8VqM

I have a pair of Arneson 7M's for sale, the boat comes with them :)

http://47excalibur.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmhE9uvbMX4

Awesome video. ...amazing what half a prop can do. ....

Anything Mercury is out of control price wise. I stay away from them but has their trim tabs as nothing else can be found in the market. They want over $100,- for a 5/8 thick bolt, 5-1/2" long for their trim tabs that needs 4 of them. Insanity at its best. My new hobby is to blow Mercs out of the water, and I was the 3 year old kid with a Mercury 4,5 HP on my dinghy. Shame on them.......

The last tthing that is mercs bread and butter is selling bravo parts. Very Silly. Selling 350 magnums in cobalts is 95% of there business. Arneson aren't that popular because bravos work perfectly in 99% of there applications. OSO is performance site, not the normal world.

Very well stated and I agree completely. They sell you crap that they know will break so.... I don't buy there crap. Example $45.00 for an o-ring for a VOS tank.... please ! As far as resale I don't buy with the intention of flipping or reselling. to each his own. Flame on...........

The most efficient method of getting propulsion in the water is dependent upon speed and application. If memory serves me (and it does less and less every year) 50mph is the cutover point for surface piercing drives over non-cavitating submerged props. Cruise ships would not benefit from a surface drive, nor would boats with sub-30 kt cruise speeds.

But in reality, surface drives ARE mainstream in the environment where they are most efficient and effective.

Very nicely stated, you use what you use given your circumstances and by far, most boats will not benefit from surface drives.

As i saw from youtube and internet , all single engines boats with surface drives dont have a deep V hull, like i do

Am i wrong on this ?

This one does
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNC-ftv62EM

Sorry but not exactly. I have probably 70% of applications whereby the top speed is 35 knots or less. We are much more efficient over an under water gear or pump and at the same time are faster.

Cruise ships are not plaining ships, rather full displacement. Now take a 120' ferry that goes 38 knots loaded and odds are I've been in contact with them. Same for patrol boats, crew boats, work boats, fishing boats, etc..

Same can most likely be said for Bravos. Mercury sells thousands each year to the pontoon boat market and they go as fast as they go but in pure #'s they dominate the sales over performance boats that we see or think of.

Ok expliane me this ...... Why mercury drive is cheaper then Arneson but when you see the surface drive is much simpler ?

So why Arneson dont sell there drive cheaper so more people buy them ? Eventuly they will get richer by selling parts !!

Maybe you should read the thread

Strength to strength they are cheaper. An arneson is not a bravo equivalent. more like a #6 strength wise, have you seen the price of a #6? I bet a XR/ITS set up is close to the price of a asd6 kit.

Tough to get rich selling replacement parts for stuff that does not break.

So your business plan is just to lower the price? Sell parts?

1st. I don't want to loose $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ so I cannot lower the pricing to accommodate that plan on hopes of #2 working as

2nd.. Honestly in 4 years post sale a customer might purchase a trim hose for $45.00

So how many trim hoses does one have to sell in order to cover the loss of selling below cost to increase sales to try to recover the losses through minimal parts sales? And no this is not a trick question, rather it's a plan for failure and conversations about "remember when...... ..... .... .. .. ."

Rather, we try to cover cost, with a small profit that in turn is used to stand behind the one year warranty. You know the thing you expect when you purchase a product and expect it to last. We are not making huge $$ or really any $ on some models. The #7M Kits for example include a transmission that equates to 25% of the kit cost. Maybe I can get Velvet Drive and BAM to lower their cost to make more sales. Nope, they both just told me that that business model won't work and their bills are not paid with "Thank you's".. WTF? I read it on the internet.??

How about this business plan instead..

Arneson sales Value.. Value. You get something that works, something that is reliable, something that can make your boat and boating experience better, faster and less expensive and there is someone there to answer the phones when you have a question or heaven forbid a problem.

Today I've gotten 5 phone calls alone with one simple question.. What weight oil do I use? While we don't sell oil, this example is what a typical customer concern is and there is someone here to answer that and other questions, hence value.

I realize that no one can be everything to everyone. We make ten different Arneson Surface Drive sizes to accommodate power options from 300 ft/lbs of torque up to 42,000 ft/bls of torque and I wish we made bigger ones than that. Smaller, not really as much as there simply is no economical means to make something for nothing, for a market that has no budget in the first place. Unfortunately with this global economy cost are rising.. Inflation is rising as we are coming out of this depression so that means cost are rising for everything, marine or not as everyone who has whore'd out their inventory to make it through the depression are finding that replenishment is costing more and thus prices are rising. This squeezes the smaller market even harder as while their budget of nothing to none has not changed the items they desire have actually risen in cost while they waited to make a decision.

Hence, buy now and save.

Ok, got me.

First off, I said "If memory serves me..." based on what I recall reading and studying. Just as some jet pumps are more efficient than others, some surface drives are more efficient than others. And I'm sure that the books I recall are not what might be considered "current". I also didn't specifically mention planing vs. displacement hulls. I understand the issues with power and cavitation in a submerged prop. And lest anyone think I don't like surface drives or has some aversion to them, I'd put them on my boat in a heartbeat if I had the $$$ just laying around. I am a firm believer in the concept and the issues that the concept resolves.

Rik, come on down to DP and I'll buy the beverages and bites. I do love your product.