Question on big outboard power:
 

My brother is currently running a Skater 30 w/twin Opti 300's. Well, not currently, because one is severly damaged, and needs replacement. Estimated cost to repair exceeds the cost of a new 300!

Anyway, my brother hear a rumor, just a rumor, about Merc Racing upgrading their 350 Verado, maybe to a 400, and have it offered with the Sport Master lower unit. Does anyone have any input on that? It might be an option for him to swap out the pair of Opti 300's for a pair of Verado's, but only if they will be offering more power. He already ran a 350 Verado on a 26' RIB that he had, and it ran real well.

Appreciate any info. Even though he's got all winter to make a decision, he wants to prepare for this.......

Thanks!

Nobody has heard anything? Any other options for big outboard power?

July '05 Trailer Boats Magazine had an article related to Mercury Racing and a rumor of a 400hp Verado... Fast forward to '07ish when the 350SCi came out, and I thought that was the end of the rumor.
My last 4 boats have been Merc powered, and I love 'em. That being said, after the Optibomb debacles, even if the rumor became fact, I wouldn't want to be a beta tester for their new motor with my hard earned money.

There's always Seven Marine for big outboard power. 557hp, and 1000+lbs... No better way to turn a sunpad into a swim platform! Just the thought makes my (transom) knees buckle.

How big do you want to go? http://www.seven-marine.com/media

Whos he gettin prices from//////////////1 885-9811T71 CYLINDER BLOCK ASSEMBLY 5 $4,858.32 Plus Labor

Lightspeed is right. The short block comes with a 1yr warranty. I also would love to see a 400hp motor. Problem is a couple of things.
1) Motor will more than likely be heavy. Upsetting the CG
2) Mercury cannot keep the sportmaster together with 300hp so how in the world is it going to hold 400hp.
3) I have had 350 verados on a fountain and they wiggle some even with good tie bars. Not sure how they would work surfacing the propellor on a cat.
I wish the goverment would ease the EPA requirements and Mercury could bring back a real 400hp race motor in a modified 8000rpm 300x!

Wouldn't that breathe new life into a lot of older 32 cats!

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http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...-outboard.html



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Mercury is clearly working towards adapting the verado to sportmaster for high performance use.
They are just not commenting on it right now

What I have heard from reliable sources is the the now current 350 Verado that falls into the Mercury Hi Perf division will move to the production Verado engine family & be available as a detuned 350 that doesn't req prem fuel & will be avail w/ the 3yr warranty.

Replacing the 350 will be a 400 out of the Hi Perf division requiring premium fuel & carrying the much more limited warranty.

Don't hold me too it but that's what I'm hearing w/ announcements at the Miami show so everyone w/ a boat on order is hesitant to move forward fearing they miss out on the opportunity.

Where is the damn Ilmor Outboard ?!?!?! :whistle:

Awaiting an order for Quads from you!!!

They make one mean bike motor. Seems they could start with that.

Ilmor should take the yamaha 250 sho motor and upgrade it similar to what they do with the viper motors. Make a surface piercing gear case and in the end have a 4 stroke with over 300 hp and still weight around 500 hp. Even if they were 35k each I think they would sell.

How much heavier is a verado than an optimax?

We need much more than a short block. The center section was torn off, along with the lower unit and prop that is at the bottom of Lake Erie!

I hear what you're saying about the weak lower units. We've had our share of problems with them, more than once. In fact, one lower unit was new last fall, and the other was rebuilt, because there was a big delay in getting the case. (Not positive, but we heard there was a quality issue with the cases, and some were recalled, and the ones in stock were bad.) It was our rebuilt lower unit that we suspect self destructed, and took many other parts with it. All I can tell you is that we were very luck to be going slow (70-75 MPH) when it let go. As it was, we went around 1-1/2 times, and stuffed it going backwards. Can't believe we didn't roll it.

The seven marine outboards are very expensive, and very heavy!

This goes along with what we heard as a rumor. Hope it happens, and hope the lower unit can handle it.

I have never heard of a lower unit taking out a powerhead and damaging the cylinders. I had one lower lock up and I snapped the drive shart clean off by the water pump. No other damage to the mid either. Maybe you hit something in the water.
For the one who is asking I believe the Verado is a 100 pounds heavier than the optimax.
With that being said the motor has built in steering so you could save the weight of the steering rams.

I think there's more of a weight difference than that, I believe it's closer to 160 to 175 lbs dry. Wet and with the internal steering I think the 350 Verado is approaching 700 lbs. A 300 Opti is a hair over 500 lbs.

Double Rigged - We definitely did not hit anything. There was no bump or anything visible. Lake was smooth, nothing in the water, we were only running some old fuel off to make room for fresh fuel for the next days poker run. No bump felt, just started as a wobble in the rear, as if we lost the steering. Within a second or two, we were spinning sideways, backwards, sideways, etc! Thinking back, it seems like it all happened in slow motion, but I can assure you, it did not. Hell of a ride, and darn lucky to not have flipped. I got up to check, expecting to see the steering rams broken or missing, but no, the lower unit was gone.... missing!

Anyway, I've spoken some more to my brother about this.... He said the splines were damaged, actually some were missing, along with the center section and lower unit. I thought that would just mean a new crank, (plus center and lower unit) but he wants a total rebuild. When I asked about the cost, he was told the parts and labor would be well over half the cost of a new 300XS, so it would be better to go with new. My bad, I initially thought he was told it would be more than a new 300. I understand him not wanting to spend 70-75% of the cost of a new one on a used repaired engine.

I've sent him the info on the used motor posted here, as an alternative. But, a pair of big Verados, if they come out with 400 hp versions, would certainly entice him.

Other than the weight and LU reliability issues with a 400 hp 4 stroke, I would imagine there would be a huge difference in price... probably in the order of at least 2x over a new 300 Opti.

For a light weight cat, I personally would stick with a 2 stroke. If he's looking for a little more power over the 300 XS, going with a set of used 300x engines would gain him a few mph over the Opti's. I believe Merc is still offering the new and/or rebuilt 300x short block should you need to replace a bad 300x engine.

Like you're mentioned, the pricing is probably much higher, especially if they ever do come out with a 400 Verado. Also you stated, weight is a big concern, which is why he wouldn't be interested in the 350 Verado. He told me for a 4 stroke and the weight difference, it would need to be in the 400 hp range to make up for the weight penalty.

My brother is fairly conservative (but he likes speed) and is looking for reliability. Up here in the north the season is short enough, without having to deal with down-time. Knowing the lower unit limitations of the sportmasters is a concern. He's had a few failures with them. He had similar problems when he ran a RIB with twin 250's on it (sportmaster lower units). That was an 86 MPH "rubber raft". (What a blast to drive, kind of like motocross on the water!)

The 300 XS's run so nice and clean, and are very good on fuel too. We average approx 2 MPG's at speed i the cat, which is pretty darn good. I have to admit, I don't know much about the 300X. Never had one, or rode with anyone with them. The only thing I've heard is that they are fast. (Which is good!)

He's got a few months to make a decision, and get prepared for 2015. Boating is over for us this year....

From what I've seen the 300XS runs a little cleaner (smells less too for the same reason) and gets about 30% better mileage. It also seems to idle a little better, but with that said I've seen some 300x engines that idle extremely well. I believe the X has about 20-25 hp on the XS, it's noticeably more powerful... usually a few mph faster. The X is also a little lighter.

http://www.davebushracing.com/mercur...0x-update.htmlI've been poking around, looking up the 300X and 300XS, and found this from Dave Bush Racing:

Interesting read. What do you think???

If reliability is a major concern, a lot of guys say to stay away from modifying the X/XS. With that said, I've seen a couple of guys on S&F have had good results with the DBR and Simon upgrades for the XS. Then again, I also read on OSO recently a member installed the DBR kits in his XS's (on a 30 spectre maybe?) and saw no increase in speed.

Is he running vent kits on those sportmasters? If not that might be his problem. I still am confused about the full rebuild on that 300xs that had the lower unit failure.

Turbo - Vent kits? Never heard of them. You've got me thinking - Not that I am aware of.... Are they an external item? I've seen nothing that would indicate there is a vent kit. Interestingly, on one lower unit, it always took a lot longer to fill with lube than the other, as if there was an obstruction. It had been taken apart more than once over the years, and nothing ever found wrong. Maybe the vent kit would have helped???

The full rebuild was because it was much more than just a failure of the gearset in the lower unit. When the lower unit was broken off, it also took the center section (well, some of it, it was physically snapped off), and other 'missing parts'. After closer inspection, there was damage to the splines on the crankshaft, several splines wiped out. Parts and labor were estimated to exceed the value of the engine.... Hence, my brother is considering a full replacement instead of rebuilding this one.

i got a pair of 2011 300xs motors 4 sale one with 47 hrs the other 142hrs

There is a widespread problem with the sportmasters. It goes something like this......Under high rpm the fluid pushes out a seal and then sucks water witch compromises the fluid thus damages the lower unit.....a vent kit stops this from happening. It is a common fix for that problem. Do a search for sportmaster vent kit and you see. You guys definitely need it if you dont have it.

This "rumor" has been spreading for years and nothing ever comes out, even with info from "reliable sources". When we talked to the engineers at Mercury about this subject, we were told that 350hp+ can't be made without the ram-air style intake of the 350 Verado. They said this system will never be put on a standard production engine. This has been the same answer since the release of the 350 Verado.

More than likely what will be released is a Mercury Racing 350hp, short shaft Verado that weighs about what an Optimax does now.

A lightweight 350 Verado woould be a nice upgrade.

I'd like to see how they would pull that off. Just converting to a 20" SM would not come close to getting it to even within 100 lbs of the 2 stroke. The problem is what's above the mid/lower... the intercooled supercharged 4 stoke will always be a lot heavier than the 2 stroke.

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I think that MercRacing should reinvent the V8 outboard. If done right with smaller pistons, the fuel consumption will go up, but hopefully not by much and generate in the neighborhood of 400HP to start the sales marketing campaign. Make some money and fine tune it some more to generate 475+HP

No superchargers, and keep it 4-stroke so that the burned oil doesn't go into the lake

...and give us some nice bling to go with the new V8 :)

how about them Merc lowers!



Photo Credits: SnF High Performance Boating Online

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...in open ocean waters I want a bigger cat rather than bigger engines

36' Spectre Outboard conversion - Twin 300XS
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It usually pops the shift shaft seal, merc also updated that seal a few years back. I lost 2 shift shaft seals in 2010, since the new upgraded seal I have not had a problem. I dont think you are the first person either to have a 3.0l mid break either. On a high X outboard, you really want the vent kits as the lowers get hot running out of the water. I check/change my gear lube a lot.

I got my vent kits from Lakeland Marine in AZ and have had no problems with my sportmaster LU's. They are a good idea if you run your boat hard and don't want to push out a seal.

Wow, all this info on the venting.... makes me feel like a dunce!!! I wonder why no one at the marina ever mentioned that to us? They are performance guys too. One of their boats is a Spectre 30 with triples, not sure if they are 2.5's or something else. I know the smoke quite a bit. Their latest ride is a 36' Skater, but that has blown big blocks in in, and I think # 6 outdrives. That's a whole 'nother level of boating!

Anyway, I sure will check into the sportmaster vent kits. Thanks again for that tip. Sounds like they are mandatory for high speed running.

We found out about the vent kits when we had a problem of having water in the lower units. I never heard it before we asked a few people if they had this same problem. To tell you the truth I rarely hear of anyone blowing up a 300xs. Compressors....yes but a whole motor rareley. I really think your buddy needs to buy a used motor or new powerhead and keep on trucking. You are not going to find a more powerfull and fuel efficient outboard motor.

Lightspeed - I tried to reply to our PM's, but your mailbox is full.....

UPDATE: Hello! Sorry about taking so long to get back to you.... we had a death in the family. My oldest brother lost his battle to cancer, and we were in Raleigh NC for that. I even got a speeding ticket in Virginia on my way to see him just hours before he passed, and the trooper would not cut me a break.

Anyway, I told my other brother about your engines. He said he has decided to take the boat to Ocean Outboard in Merrick, where he originally bought it, for a re-power. They were great setting it up the first time, and he wants it done by them again. He has decided to go with 2 new engines! Now, he really hopes the rumors pan out on a higher HP engine like a 400 Verado, but if not, he's going with 2 new 300XS's. I emphasized the low hours on your engines, but he does not want 'used' motors, no matter how little use they have on them. (I wish I had his $$$.)

Anyway, the guys at Ocean Outboard (I think it was Tony Caligure) were great to work with the last time we were there. Hope this all works out as well this time. I will keep you posted, but probably won't have any updates until after the Miami boat show.

Take care, Gary.