Building a Sleeper
 

New to the board and thought I would share my winter project with you guys. After many years of causal boating here on Lake Norman, I made the mistake of joining in on a fun run we had here a few months ago. Needless to say, my wife, son, and I had a blast watching the BIG BOYS go by and then joining in safely at the rear of the pack until the next stop. Never before had I ran my boat flat out for that length of time, and to my surprise, my wife didn't mind running faster than our normal speed (if you wanna call 58mph fast)
But that's all my stock MPI 454 could push my 252 Bowrider Formula...............................

Then it happened ! That need for more speed came creeping into my body?

But what to do? Im restricted in length at the marina at my condo to 25 feet. We really enjoy the extra room the bowrider offers,,Its also my wife's favorite place to sunbath as well as moon bathing,

ENTER: The Sleeper !
Remove the 528 hour factory LXI 454 330HP engine, sell off the parts, I don't need, and take the rest to MER Performance Marine and let Mark go to work building a ground up 540 EFI Stroker.

Should be an interesting build, and will update you guys on the final HP and speed this mild mannered family fun boat makes

I would keep the stock engine for when its time to sell the boat.

600hp will probably get you into the low 70's. The increased hp will also create increased outdrive issues and the need for hydraulic steering.

Save the $$$ and buy a cheap 25ft cat

What would you call an inexpensive 25' Cat????

22 or 25 Eliminator is always a safe bet in all departments and they can be had from $20 to $30k. 600hp will most likely put one over a 100. There are a lot of open bow cats out there now also...although they might not be as fast. When I have my 28 the GF would lay out on the bow...she really was a nice hood ornament!

The wife wants the bowrider. The dude wants to go fast. Sounds like big hp is a fair compromise. Hope you have a thick wallet.

x 1 million or so.

^^ +2 million. Heed the advice of griff.

Honestly if it were me, I would skip the idea altogether.

There are plenty of open bowrider cats

Then there was two..

That was the comment my wife said when I showed up with our Donzi Years and years back.

As I pondered taking my 454 sea ray bow-rider and adding components to make it break 60 mph and add exhaust etc. I realized at the end of the day I enjoyed the sea ray for what it was. Easy to cruise.. booze. swim off . beach anywhere . you get the point.

Sea ray on the hoist.. Donzi put in on week ends for the couple time.. get to the restaurant fast. make noise. go 74 mph.

The 30k upgrade would do nicely on another Boat for those times you want that speed...

Maybe a pair of Formulas. Good venture either way!!

I have a 2004 25 Talon that runs 95-98 all day long, 40K and it's loaded. 50 hours on the new 572" Victory marine 680. (2) covers, (2) props, etc. But like everyone else said, it's better to sell it stock, and buy a new, (new or used) to you faster boat....

http://norfolk.craigslist.org/boa/5289881943.html

I know the owner of this one, never rode in it but I've seen it blow by me in a poker run. Pm me if interested I can get you in contact with the owner

going fast in a boat designed to go fast seems a lot cheaper and safer than going fast in a boat that wasn't designed to go fast. amen to the guy that also brought up the outdrive and steering issues. but all it takes is cubic dollars

I`d sell a condo that only allows a 25' boat. Start there :evilb:

So, this pic of a Formula 252 Bowrider seems to have the normal Formula hull. What do these run with 502MPI's, 500HP's, or etc....if any of these came factory equipped with them ?

http://images.boats.com/photos/hashe...20091712_2.jpg

That's a TERRIBLE idea. Boat not designed for that. Drive can't handle it. Resale value killed.

Cool ! Looks like it needs some Glass Dave attention under the crank pulley though.

The boat I posted has a #5 drive so that would take care of the bravo blues :riding:

The "Sleeper" idea is super cool. However the advice given after your original post is all true! You're going to be looking at 30-40K all said and done. That's stout 540, upgraded drive, hydraulic steering and upgraded performance tabs. The cat advice is a good one as well. But buying a 30k cat but that goes 100MPH is also dicey to say the least. (Probably due for some serious maintenance). I can tell you I've done both and both projects were super fun. However each project tripled my original budget to make them fast, reliable and safe. Have fun and get ready to smoke your wallet!

This is correct - mention bowrider and folks forget the part in the water is what counts. Only the deck is different, and likely a few lbs lighter in the bow section. Plenty of guys out there have made these hulls fast.

Yes, he'll incur the usual steering, drive, etc issues. But so will a 20-30k cat IMO, since you are still most likely looking at bravo power and a fairly worn (or unknown build) engine. Not to mention the insurance issue many prospective cat owners encounter.

Just do it...every time someone posts up a project idea like this a ton of people post up and say how bad of an idea it is and just buy another boat. If you buy another boat you could just be buying more problems. If you like the boat you have go ahead and throw some more power in it, just be reasonable in your expectations. Everyone talks about resale later but no one makes money on a boat. They are a hobby not an investment, have fun and do what makes you happy.

I know a guy who has the same 496 powered 26' bowrider as me. He added a procharger, headers, etc. and swapped the Bravo III for a Bravo IX. I believe he had somewhere around 600 hp? He was topped out at 70 due to the hull design. He had like 30K into it. But he loved the face on the Baja guys when he smoked them on the lake.

At first I was thinking hell no I wouldn't do that but after I saw a picture of what that boat looks like it's not a bad looking ride for a lake boat. My 2 cents, if you're happy with the boat (and can visualize yourself happy in it in the next fun run) I'd remove and sell the 330efi engine and replace it with a 454/502 Mag EFI or a 496 Mag HO.....that should get you a decent power/speed increase (relatively speaking) that won't break the bank, will help resale, and won't require hydro steering. I'm guessing that will get you into the mid 60's and will have a choppier idle than your 330hp has now.

As most have said cost can get out of hand quickly on these projects.
My thoughts are if you family likes your current boat and due to you length restrictions don't have options to step up in size.
Upgrade to an 500HP good reliable power that will not kill and standard Bravo drive. Especially on your inland lake.
Next you have to look at steering a 25 at 65-70 with your family on board will need external steering. Add on or Full Hydaulic
Your also gonna need to get anew prop to match your new setup.
Lastly if you want a piece of mind you could upgrade your drive to an "X" or "XZ".

So a quick breakdown:
1) Motor w/ exhaist $15K (One in classifieds)
2) Steering $1400-$2500 (IMCO or Mayfair)
3) Drive upgrade $4500 (All American Drive Service)
4) Prop $750-$1000 (BBlades)
Total - Around $23000 +labor if you cannot do the work yourself (approx. $2-3k)

Selling your current power will offset the labor.

This setup would put you in the 68-70mph range with no problem and be very reliable.

LOL A second Formula was an option, One on the lift and one on the trailer. A cherry 303 is for sale just up the road from me. 1995 model with twin 454 EFI Mags Damn thing looks like it was kept in a time capsule. Its perfect with a trailer to boot.

You know the issue 1 boat with new engine verses 2 boats with (3) 500 hour plus engines

The 502 Mag was an option for the 252 right up until 1999 when they stopped making them

Keep your original engine/drive combo and look into a drop in 500HP, 500EFI, or 525 EFI and drive assy. Run it, enjoy and when ready to sell remove the Merc Race set-up or keep for your next project. Then put the boat back together as stock and sell. You won't lose a lot of money and it will be a fun project. Steering and big boy tabs will be a must!

My point

Thank you sir

Formula 252s are not your typical family bowrider. The LS and SS models are the same from the cap down

I think most on here have missed my point. EVERYONE expects a CAT or some other A typical "fast boat" to go blowing past you. But let a bowrider go screaming past ya at 70 plus and you will turn a head or too.

Every boat mentioned so far as an option has upgraded outdrives and steering, this was all discussed with my engine builder before we turned the first bolt.

I want something different, not just faster, but still user friendly. The outlay of cash issue. I layout 30K for new engine, outdrive, steering in a hull and layout I love. Sounds like a cheap solution to me ?

2x

I say go for it. If you like the boat you have then it makes perfect sense. Also the fast bow rider is hilarious. I grew up with a 65mph maxum. I used to toy with all the single engine bajas. Have the Germans Shepard in the front and go past them at 50. Then when they take off just drop it and blow past them with only the last foot of the boat in the water

Funny....We have a German Shepard.........Do they make 70mph doggie goggles?

German Shepherd. I have three and breed them. Sleepers rock. Customizing is cool. Don't let the naysayers talk you out of it!

I am a big fan of the sleeper. Many moons ago I had a 21' Executive v-hull bowrider, with the motor cover with jump seats beside it; the family truckster of boats. It had a SBC and a B&M blower (all up under the motor cover), and would run 70-72 mph. For the time, it was fast. Nothing about the boat gave it away, but it did give a lot of jetboats nightmares! .

Open bow performance V or Cat, there are many and iot serves both parties, in fact a cat/deck boat will have even more room

It is fun for awhile I have baja 208 that goes 83.6 gps 80 every day. The look when you out run the bigger boats are priceless, but the water continuations have to be right. I have scared people that have faster boats when they ride in mine but I have a buyer for mine and he is getting it for the price of up grades boat and trailer is free. I will miss thar boat because not everybody could drive it at the speed and I am not selling it to some kid but some one that will repect it. If I had to do it all over again I would pull the stock motor. But they would still get the hydraulic steering and exhaust for free.

Sounds like a good idea to me, I know when your in a cat everybody wants to race in a Baja or fountain. It's hard to say no when you got the family with you.

Sleepers are fun, go for it. It's a blast taking a boat that everyone assumes will never break 60 and running beside someone in a known fast hull at 70+. Even if they leave you, the look you get for hanging by them as the speedometer runs past where they normally leave people is priceless and the relief they exude when they finally pull away is hilarious. Sometimes you come out on top, too, which is icing on the cake. My little old 23' Crownline has outrun many a baja and a couple of stock 288 Sunsations.

Watched it go down with red . Started a a good female owned 252 with a 454mag b3. 5k gets 496 in merc crate another thou pcm cam recoup half with the still breathing 454 mag . Now low 60s gets out of the hole pretty darn quick with a few peps in bow with the b3 but looking for close to 70 cause thats what it takes these days to walk majority of the flashy boats on this lake most days.was about to go b1 tweaked the hull ,stringer came loose from the hull , got real squirrely then , got worse at the hull deformed and boat continued to be hammered on.
If you can wheel and deal it wont be a bazillion dollars to do what you want to do , its one thing to zing the big twin eng bruisers in another procharged eliminator. Or a tx19 jet boat .or a bumble bee bass boat with 2 white knuckle peps.but a 25 deep v with the exhaust going out the prop and 2 or 3 people chilling in the bow , thats priceless

As cool as a Sleeper is ,if the hull is not a performance minded hull it is a waste of time and money.

Keep the bowrider and buy yourself a 24 by 7 Pantera or Superboat. for 7 to 10 grand that is solid. Dont worry about a cabin or a big stereo . Just some Bolsters or good seats and a solid hull and drivetrain and run a Offshore boat like it was meant to be run

Build a nice motor for it and if it runs and does not blow up lucky you.

If it does it is a learning experience and you still have you bowrider to keep the wife and kids and you happy.

Once you get behind the wheel of a boat that feels solid and right your sleeper dreams will settle down.



20 grand playing with another boat is nothing compared to losing short summers diking around with trying to work the bugs out of the sleeper.

Its not how fast you can go But how fast and how long can you keep up with me in 2 to 3s