Walker Out As Baja Marine President
12-14-2015, 01:16 PM
#41
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Donzi had 450 employees at one point and they built close to 500 boats per year (im sure alot were the classic line). The Donzi ZR line isnt really that dated honestly. The 43 ZR came out in 06. Look at Formula, the fastech lineup has been basically the same (engines, gauges, etc change of course) since the late 90's when they went to a stepped hull. I dont think Cig. has changed the 38 TG much since going to a step, the 39 TG much since introduction, etc.
Also, used boats and refurbishing them is great but eventually good used boats will run out and be pretty old. People keep mentioning middle class. Middle class isnt who all the major performance manufactures target audience is. MTI, Cigarette, OL, Nor-Tech, Skater, etc etc are all in the business to build high end boats for the 0.1-1% that can afford them.
Donzi and Fountain's strength was building boats for middle and upper class. They both offered boats from right around $100k all the way up to upper 6 figures and everywhere in between.
Also, used boats and refurbishing them is great but eventually good used boats will run out and be pretty old. People keep mentioning middle class. Middle class isnt who all the major performance manufactures target audience is. MTI, Cigarette, OL, Nor-Tech, Skater, etc etc are all in the business to build high end boats for the 0.1-1% that can afford them.
Donzi and Fountain's strength was building boats for middle and upper class. They both offered boats from right around $100k all the way up to upper 6 figures and everywhere in between.
12-14-2015, 01:21 PM
#42
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Another thing to consider with boat sales is how brand sales tend to be a zero sum game. If someone is shopping OL, NT and Cig for a new 42-44 ft boat with 700's then one builder gets the sale and the other two get nothing. With cars, you have many more buyers so if someone doesn't buy that new Ferrari 458, no big deal it will get sold in a few days anyway to someone else! Most high end cars have deposits on waiting lists, boats haven't had that in a long time (though some yachts/big sportfishes do have that today). Also that sale in most cases that sale is the sole purchase for years to come (Ron/Flight club blows this theory out of the water 
). So if you are the boat company, you don't get another chance to sell that customer another boat for a few years. Atleast with car sales there tends to be a steady stream of new models/HP bumps/improvements and with shorter leases 27-36 months you have that potential sale a couple years away. The "loss" on a car can be minimal so you might get a guy that buys a new "XYZ" every year or even every 6 months with plenty of tempting inventory sitting in the showroom! Boat dealers don't usually have that "impulse buy" inventory on hand anymore.
). So if you are the boat company, you don't get another chance to sell that customer another boat for a few years. Atleast with car sales there tends to be a steady stream of new models/HP bumps/improvements and with shorter leases 27-36 months you have that potential sale a couple years away. The "loss" on a car can be minimal so you might get a guy that buys a new "XYZ" every year or even every 6 months with plenty of tempting inventory sitting in the showroom! Boat dealers don't usually have that "impulse buy" inventory on hand anymore.
12-14-2015, 01:30 PM
#43
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Sort of. Competing in a global market has changed the face of American middle class forever. Companies here have cut bonuses, raises are far below what they were a decade or two ago, heath costs have escalated and pushed back onto the worker, 401k matching contributions are going away...all this combined makes for a tougher time for families and individuals.
One more factor to consider, time. In order to compete corporations cut costs (i.e., benefits) by reducing staff and adding that work to the remaining workforce thus increasing productivity per person. It's a fact...I've never seen so many of my friends and family sooooooo stressed from financial and time pressures. I don't see a way out, used boats are key during these times but if I'm a business person, boat building is an industry I'd get nowhere near.
I think the youth aren't as interested either, tech and social media seem to take priorities these days.
One more factor to consider, time. In order to compete corporations cut costs (i.e., benefits) by reducing staff and adding that work to the remaining workforce thus increasing productivity per person. It's a fact...I've never seen so many of my friends and family sooooooo stressed from financial and time pressures. I don't see a way out, used boats are key during these times but if I'm a business person, boat building is an industry I'd get nowhere near.
I think the youth aren't as interested either, tech and social media seem to take priorities these days.
I guess my family and I are way too generous at our business. Granted we are in a very niche market (high voltage electical testing/ maintenance) but even with our expenses going up each year; we still give annual raises, annual bonuses, 401k/ profit sharing match, top healthcare (100% for the employee/ 50% for their family), and many other benefits. If we didnt, we would lose valuable people.
12-14-2015, 01:39 PM
#44
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CorrespondentThread Starter
I guess my family and I are way too generous at our business. Granted we are in a very niche market (high voltage electical testing/ maintenance) but even with our expenses going up each year; we still give annual raises, annual bonuses, 401k/ profit sharing match, top healthcare (100% for the employee/ 50% for their family), and many other benefits. If we didnt, we would lose valuable people.
My hat is off to you.
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12-14-2015, 02:08 PM
#46
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Quote Originally Posted by PremierPOWER View Post
I guess my family and I are way too generous at our business. Granted we are in a very niche market (high voltage electical testing/ maintenance) but even with our expenses going up each year; we still give annual raises, annual bonuses, 401k/ profit sharing match, top healthcare (100% for the employee/ 50% for their family), and many other benefits. If we didnt, we would lose valuable people.
PremierPOWER, your key to success is serving your customer in a niche market, and to do that you recognize the need to retain key employees! Kudos to you! But that also allows you to charge what is needed to provide what one can only assume would be somewhat unique services.
Unfortunately the boat building industry exists on play money, and as such is a pure luxury, With corporate investors and banks seeking a return on their investment corners get cut . . and it is the responsibility of the CEO COO to make those decisions, all on the back of the customer who gets a bad experience. Too many stories about bad experiences with these boat brands will hold back buyers . .
and very few people are willing to shell out close to $100K for a 22 Donzi that comes with problems.
Performance boat building is a niche market, but going forward it can't continue exist as big as it was. The profit margins aren't there for large salaries and to pay back the investors. I predict another re-adjustment as insurance for these toys becomes more expensive and many of these brand names go the way of the Edsel.
Mario L.
I guess my family and I are way too generous at our business. Granted we are in a very niche market (high voltage electical testing/ maintenance) but even with our expenses going up each year; we still give annual raises, annual bonuses, 401k/ profit sharing match, top healthcare (100% for the employee/ 50% for their family), and many other benefits. If we didnt, we would lose valuable people.
Unfortunately the boat building industry exists on play money, and as such is a pure luxury, With corporate investors and banks seeking a return on their investment corners get cut . . and it is the responsibility of the CEO COO to make those decisions, all on the back of the customer who gets a bad experience. Too many stories about bad experiences with these boat brands will hold back buyers . .
and very few people are willing to shell out close to $100K for a 22 Donzi that comes with problems.
Performance boat building is a niche market, but going forward it can't continue exist as big as it was. The profit margins aren't there for large salaries and to pay back the investors. I predict another re-adjustment as insurance for these toys becomes more expensive and many of these brand names go the way of the Edsel.
Mario L.
Last edited by Mario L.; 12-14-2015 at 02:15 PM.
12-14-2015, 04:56 PM
#48
Registered
A company is only as good as its leader. Such as these brands that are no longer. Without a passionate leader that lives, breaths, and creates his brand its doomed to fail in a soft market we have in performance boats. Mark my words without a Fiore driving outerlimits the brand will fail and so will the company. Is why I don't think outerlimits will survive more then 3 years without another passionate leader like mike was.
12-14-2015, 06:05 PM
#49
Registered
Retail, depending on power, $169. You should be able to get in the door in the mid $130s.
With a downstroke you have around a $650/ month note. Pretty sure if you are busting down a quarter mil. per year you can afford the boat. And your accountant will welcome the interest write-off!
With a downstroke you have around a $650/ month note. Pretty sure if you are busting down a quarter mil. per year you can afford the boat. And your accountant will welcome the interest write-off!
