Walker Out As Baja Marine President
12-13-2015, 02:28 PM
#31
Registered
I can't speak for Donzi or Baja, but the only one capable of bringing Fountain back to life is Reggie himself. Without his persona, ego, reputation and attitude behind the name there is nothing. The old Fountain guard refuse to buy anything new because Reggie is not actively involved....The same thing happened with Velocity. The company quickly died without Steve Stepp at the helm. It's been a hard 10 years for the sport boat builders...market drying up, high gas prices, banks not loaning money, cost of materials rising, etc. The few that have survived did it by downsizing, diversifying and staying up to date with the market needs. If Reggie came back, did some R & D on the old molds and made some new changes to enhance the speed and modernize the look, Fountain buyers would come back. I think the same with Velocity. If Steve Stepp had the finacial backing and took the helm again the Velocity buyers might reappear. Checkmate has a very loyal following when it comes to their smaller (sub 30') I/O boats and outboards because they have stayed true to their roots and even though Global Marine (Hustler) now owns the company, Kip Combs (the original owner's son) is still active in the company. On the high dollar side, Nortech, MTI, Statement, Skater, etc. all have loyal followers/sales because the company founders are all very actively involved. It should be interesting to see what happens to Outerlimits now that the company has changed hands and Michael has past away...On a side not, Cigarette has been on the top of their game even though the "Don" is long burried. They've changed with the times, thought outside the box, came out with new product and kept the quality top shelf. Even Active Thunder, who build low volume customs, have survived by downsizing, releasing quality cult status boats and coming up with some great new designs!
12-13-2015, 02:55 PM
#32
I hear what your saying , So instead of miami boat builder in his small warehouse building 30 boats a year , the big boy's have the ability to build 300 to 3000 boats a year , Or Another small company boat builder can build boats at a reasonable price just like the small C c builder does , the only thing different is a closed deck vs open deck , they both can run the same power and use top of the line interior and gauges , tab's ect , I just think that people would rather spend let say $ 120 k on a well optioned 32 foot Cc then spend $ 220 k on a performance boat of equal size and appearance and build quality " just my thought"
3000 boats a year......not even sure SeaRay does that. Remember though SeaRay and its family are owned by Brunswick who also owns Mercury. Safe to say if SeaRay built a 1350 powered boat they would get the engine a lot cheaper than Cigarette or Outerlimits does!
12-13-2015, 03:00 PM
#33
I can't speak for Donzi or Baja, but the only one capable of bringing Fountain back to life is Reggie himself. Without his persona, ego, reputation and attitude behind the name there is nothing. The old Fountain guard refuse to buy anything new because Reggie is not actively involved....The same thing happened with Velocity. The company quickly died without Steve Stepp at the helm. It's been a hard 10 years for the sport boat builders...market drying up, high gas prices, banks not loaning money, cost of materials rising, etc. The few that have survived did it by downsizing, diversifying and staying up to date with the market needs. If Reggie came back, did some R & D on the old molds and made some new changes to enhance the speed and modernize the look, Fountain buyers would come back. I think the same with Velocity. If Steve Stepp had the finacial backing and took the helm again the Velocity buyers might reappear. Checkmate has a very loyal following when it comes to their smaller (sub 30') I/O boats and outboards because they have stayed true to their roots and even though Global Marine (Hustler) now owns the company, Kip Combs (the original owner's son) is still active in the company. On the high dollar side, Nortech, MTI, Statement, Skater, etc. all have loyal followers/sales because the company founders are all very actively involved. It should be interesting to see what happens to Outerlimits now that the company has changed hands and Michael has past away...On a side not, Cigarette has been on the top of their game even though the "Don" is long burried. They've changed with the times, thought outside the box, came out with new product and kept the quality top shelf. Even Active Thunder, who build low volume customs, have survived by downsizing, releasing quality cult status boats and coming up with some great new designs!
Reggie has a room full of trophies and is very wealthy........he doesn't need to resurrect anything. His biggest satisfaction lately probably has been watching Liberty struggle to be 1% of the company he once ran.
You are right about owners/founders running companies with higher levels of success though there have been cases where owners failed miserably running their own company (Pantera). Also keep in mind, small builders like AT have other sources of income (body shop). So Pat and Diane do just fine if they don't make a single boat in any given year even though they probably love doing it and obviously getting paid for it!
12-13-2015, 03:20 PM
#34
VIP Member
VIP Member
A company is only as good as its leader. Such as these brands that are no longer. Without a passionate leader that lives, breaths, and creates his brand its doomed to fail in a soft market we have in performance boats. Mark my words without a Fiore driving outerlimits the brand will fail and so will the company. Is why I don't think outerlimits will survive more then 3 years without another passionate leader like mike was.
12-13-2015, 03:26 PM
#35
Registered
A company is only as good as its leader. Such as these brands that are no longer. Without a passionate leader that lives, breaths, and creates his brand its doomed to fail in a soft market we have in performance boats. Mark my words without a Fiore driving outerlimits the brand will fail and so will the company. Is why I don't think outerlimits will survive more then 3 years without another passionate leader like mike was.
12-14-2015, 06:06 AM
#36
Registered
Showing my age a bit Bino... Rowen & Martin's Laugh-in "Say goodnight Dick" loved that show
Would say all three brands are dunno. Once great brands with greater confusion. Seems like all three have missed the comeback window.
Mercury Racing has to be concerned that the performance boat manufacturing pool is shrinking
Would say all three brands are dunno. Once great brands with greater confusion. Seems like all three have missed the comeback window.
Mercury Racing has to be concerned that the performance boat manufacturing pool is shrinking
12-14-2015, 08:02 AM
#37
The parent company Brunswick has to be sweating. They make boats and own Mercury as well. Those numbers have to look real scary! SeaRay has closed a couple plants, pushing a consolidation plan. If you think go fast buyers are shrinking, I suspect the million dollar SeaRay crowd is disappearing just as fast.
Shockingly enough the Brunswick stock as shot from $20 to $50 a share in the last 5 years........RBC recently announced a $61 price target so someone sees a bright side.
12-14-2015, 10:55 AM
#38
It's mostly been said, but to survive I think these remaining companies will have to adapt to the market and trends or create the trend if they can?
The current growth trends in boats still seems to be CC's and Wake board/Surf boats. Some of the performance builders have moved into one or the other of these markets. (with mixed results, didn't Baja come up with a fugly 25ft wake tower boat?) There might also be a new type of boat developed at some point that catches on like the wakeboard/surf thing, but what that would be who knows? Maybe performance boats can make a comeback, but to do it they will have to find a way to appeal to the I-tech generation.
Maybe a built in solar panel to charge their I-products with or maybe a hybrid boat that recharges itself while sitting in the waves?
Hey I might be onto something, LOL
The current growth trends in boats still seems to be CC's and Wake board/Surf boats. Some of the performance builders have moved into one or the other of these markets. (with mixed results, didn't Baja come up with a fugly 25ft wake tower boat?) There might also be a new type of boat developed at some point that catches on like the wakeboard/surf thing, but what that would be who knows? Maybe performance boats can make a comeback, but to do it they will have to find a way to appeal to the I-tech generation.
Maybe a built in solar panel to charge their I-products with or maybe a hybrid boat that recharges itself while sitting in the waves?
Hey I might be onto something, LOL
12-14-2015, 12:19 PM
#39
Registered
which one?
12-14-2015, 12:24 PM
#40
Another thing to consider with boat sales is how brand sales tend to be a zero sum game. If someone is shopping OL, NT and Cig for a new 42-44 ft boat with 700's then one builder gets the sale and the other two get nothing. With cars, you have many more buyers so if someone doesn't buy that new Ferrari 458, no big deal it will get sold in a few days anyway to someone else! Most high end cars have deposits on waiting lists, boats haven't had that in a long time (though some yachts/big sportfishes do have that today). Also that sale in most cases that sale is the sole purchase for years to come (Ron/Flight club blows this theory out of the water ). So if you are the boat company, you don't get another chance to sell that customer another boat for a few years. Atleast with car sales there tends to be a steady stream of new models/HP bumps/improvements and with shorter leases 27-36 months you have that potential sale a couple years away. The "loss" on a car can be minimal so you might get a guy that buys a new "XYZ" every year or even every 6 months with plenty of tempting inventory sitting in the showroom! Boat dealers don't usually have that "impulse buy" inventory on hand anymore.
). So if you are the boat company, you don't get another chance to sell that customer another boat for a few years. Atleast with car sales there tends to be a steady stream of new models/HP bumps/improvements and with shorter leases 27-36 months you have that potential sale a couple years away. The "loss" on a car can be minimal so you might get a guy that buys a new "XYZ" every year or even every 6 months with plenty of tempting inventory sitting in the showroom! Boat dealers don't usually have that "impulse buy" inventory on hand anymore.
