My submarine update...
 

My marina called me last week and said they found a hole in the bellows and once the water got up to the back swim deck that was all she wrote...blub, blub, blub...

Went out on Saturday to talk with them and to quote my marina guy: "Well, the adjuster is coming out on Tuesday to go over the boat and tell me what he will and won't cover"... That sounds somewhat hopeful at least, right? :confused:

Although jeez....the water was all the way into the forward cabin...high enough to crisp out the shore power panel mounted under the sink. I'm just curious as to when a boat becomes written off as a total loss...there has to be one hell of a lot of man hours involved in redoing all the electrical, and even at that, who knows what future problems may lie in wait?

They took some digital pictures of the boat when it was in the water...I'll try and post some pix on Tuesday.
Just say a group OSO prayer that the adjuster is in a giving mood, okay??;)

G....I hope it goes well for you. You deserve it!!! You're luck isn't much better than mine these days!!!:mad:

Keep us posted will ya??

G: I will cross my figures for ya on this one. I never give Insurance companies a inch tell I find out what I am getting.

Jon

Major bummer G-force. I once had a boat with the same problem, but it kept recurring. I named the boat "Bottom Seaker". Course that was when I was still single. :p

Hope they treat you right. Keep us posted.

BT :cool:

Hopefully it's the marina's fault the hole is in the bellows beacuse the insurance co. could claim it as poor maintenence on your part, nothing is covered then.

No it doesn't.
They're going try and weasel out of anything they can. Be prepaired to fight. Not real sure but I think if the repair cost is around 60% of the book value they consider it a total loss. You could buy it back from the ins. co. and fix it yourself.

So Craig.....any news???????

(sigh)....

After much hesitation and trepidation I called the marina today to find out what the verdict was.
The adjuster came out late yesterday and looked at the boat. Wanted to know where the props were (i have them), wanted the marina to get him pictures of the boat (they have them), and an estimate (you'd think after a month they might have had time to do that, huh?:rolleyes: :rolleyes: ).

So....it sounds like they'll at least be paying SOMETHING, right? At least the guy didn't start laughing and just walk away after seeing the hole in the bellows.

So...I'm just going to have my marina pull the 454's and Alpha's out and what better time to put in fresh power/drives?
My 502's are STILL in a shop locally (the guy hasn't even looked at them in 6 months), and my Bravo's are at another shop.
Note to self: be sure to check bellows on the Bravo's;)

Note from all your OSO freinds: Chec k the bellows on the Bravo drives. :)

What about bilge pumps & auto switches?

That's the part I have trouble understanding - the hole in the bellows isn't THAT big, and I have a Rule 2000 bilge pump in the engine compartment which is/was working (the marina guys hooked up a battery and the pump went right on).

Now granted, I was told that once the water reached a certain level hydraulics did it's thing, but I would have thought a 2000 gallon an hour pump could have kept up with a bellows leak - and yep, my shore power was plugged in so it couldn't have been a drained battery.
:confused: :confused:

Farmers Insurance sent me a registered letter stating that because the cause of the boat sinking was a hole in the bellows and was a result of normal wear and tear, they refuse to pay my claim.
Anyone have any suggestions?:confused: :( :mad:

Holy **** dude, that sucks. :eek:
I hope something turns for the better.

Nope, cant do that. The only thing they can exclude is the cause of loss(Bellows). The resulting damage(sinking) and all recovery costs should be covered. Read your policy and quote it if necessary.

Call your agent and *****- LOUD. Threaten a state dept of insurance complaint for specific performance. Not adhering to a contract, your policy.

They are hoping you will go away, Dont!!!

Iwork in the biz, I know, Good luck

Dean

Thanks Zoomnfun - that was the type of response/info I was looking for. If I can't do anything and/or don't have grounds...fine - I'll live with it.
But if they are just giving me the run around then screw 'em, I'll just take them to court.
I'm letigious...and proud of it!;)

MNake sure you document all calls and letters and also does not hurt to cc: a copy of your complaint to the State insurance commision in the state you live in. Be prepared and don't get discourage. The State Commision should be aware of any problems that develop.

Do you have any maintenance records and/or receipts indicating that the bellows was replaced? Was it an original bellows? What kind of shape was it in? Do you have maintenance records/receipts? If you are going to battle with the insurance company, you need to have your sh-t together. You will need to substantiate that when bellows failed, it was in good condition, and that the boat has been maintained. If it's a newer boat, or the bellows has been replaced, it will be that much easier. However, if it's a boat that is older with original bellows, or if bellows is cracked, old piece of sh-t, you will probably be out of luck.

I agree with get a copy of your policy & READ it. I had a toy box fire & my insureance company said they would only pay for 1 of my 3 waverunners that burned. I got copy of my policy & found out that the wording was from part of a form policy that the state of texas wrote. After reading I still felt I was due the money. I called the state board, after talking to about 4 people that told me I was wrong but could not back up with a decent explanation I got hold of some one that knew what he was talking about. He did a search to see if anyone had made a ruling on working. He found no ruling on the wording. He said I was right & to call insurance company back. After I called & told them that I had read the policy & had what I had found out they decided to pay me.

Hope all comes out OK.

Did you find why bilge pumps did not work?

When ours sank, State Farm kept the claim open for 2 years. It isnt getting wet, it is as the electrical dries out that is gets really screwed.

How much money do you spend at that marina? Seems like they could have help you avoid the whole problem.

My father had a 130k claim when his house was burglarized. He had been a Farmer customer for 33 years at the time and they refused to pay the claim. He hired a lawyer here in San Diego that specializes in litigation against insurance companies and he sued and won. The downside is it took five years after the appeal process, but they had to pay 1.8 mil on top of the claim for attorneys fees plus interest on the claim amount. Farmers sucks. Good luck.

have mine thorough state farm also hit something and cracked both gimble rings . they sent a adjuster down to the repair shop and he said he couldnt tell were it hit any thing it had a broke skag , it appears to have been over tourqed is what he said i asked him if he checked the torq. he said no need thats how it happend look at the cracks. i thought my ass, get a torq wrench
and prove they were over torqed, needless to say they had more
money so statefarm screwed me for 4g. the adjuster was paid by them, that means he works for them,.but i asked what if it sank they said they would pay for boat less broke gimbals the cause of it.

LIBERTY MUTUAL-- I have had them for 28 years and have had two truck claims and 1 boat claim. The ONLY problem I had was that they didn't want to total the truck that my wife had run head on into another car. Front drivers wheel was under the drivers seat. Frame was bent and the transfer case was leaking. Told me to have it looked at. I said so I have it looked at and nothing is wrong and 6 months later it takes a dump. They said to have someone GOOD look at it. (I rephrased my question.) So lets say I am sittting on a boat ramp putting the plug in my boat and the transfer case takes a dump. The boat and truck run over me on the way to the lake. And WHO insures all those items? She said I see your point and totaled the truck. All we did is go out and buy a brand new one.

I have the exact wording of the contract....I hope you smart guys can tell me what you think - I want to bounce my thinking off you guys:
[B]"We will not cover your insured property for loss:
1. Caused by wear and tear, marring, denting, scatching, deterioration, inherent defects, weathering, insects, vermin, mold, marine life, unseaworthiness, mechanical breakdown, faulty manufacture, corrrosion, rust, dampness of atmosphere, freezing or extremes of temperature."[B]

Okay...so if there was a hole in the bellows caused by wear and tear that is one issue - like Zoomnfun pointed out. Time, effects of deterioration and use contributed to the failure of the bellows...wear and tear.
Now...99.999999% of the damage to the boat revolves around the water that entered the boat as a result of the hole in the bellows.
Is the actual damage a result of wear and tear?
Or is it a different matter....damage caused not by wear and tear...but by immersion in water?
I'm biased so what do I know?:confused:

I keep trying to come up with an analogy that would show a clear distinction between the wear and tear issue and the water damage that was a result of the wear and tear item.
Anyone have any good ideas? When I present my letter to farmers I want to be well prepared and have a well thought out statement - I'm fairly certain I'm not the only person in the world to go up against them with this type of claim.
Thanks guys...

No rack storage and no lifts allowed.:(
I go tomorrow and get the estimate...anyone want to take a guess at the total dollar amount?
1988 32' twin 454 w/alphas....sunk 3/4 of the way...water at least 12 inches deep in the cabin.

I'll post up tomorrow with the cost from my marina.

So If your U joint in the gimbals blew up and tore the outdrive off and the boat sank - wouldn't that be considered mechanical failure? If this is correct what good is your insurance. The way that contract is written it doesnt cover much of anything. They have disclaimers for just about everthing.

So if the boat is in a marina and the boat next to yours catches fire and due to the extreams of temperature your boat catches fire and burns down. YOUR NOT COVERED???

Hey G, didnt your boat sink on a weekend that we had a literal flood? If memory serves, we had 5 or 6 inches of rain that weekend. I think that greatly contributed to your situation. Hole in bellows, bilge pump keeps up. Hole in bellows plus mother nature dumping tons of water in.....???

I find your analogy correct and I couldn't agree with you more. Mechanically speaking, if you don't have a head on with a bridge and sink it while driving, it doesn't cover much of anything.
So...stupidity would be covered in that case.:rolleyes:
I didn't get the policy so much to cover the loss of my boat as to cover people (and myself) in the case of an accident. I have/had $500,000.00 on the policy and a $1 million dollar umbrella policy on top of that. That was as high a limit as I could get.

I'd put that under "dampness of atmosphere" if I were Farmer's lawyer.

Wow...good one. I imagine Farmers would take issue with that and deny the claim.
You might be on to a new career as a claims adjuster my friend!:D ;)

Am I reading this right??????
Isn't it reasonable to expect a boat to be operated in damp conditions? For instance, oh I don't know...................near water!

I would say bellows not covered, but damage from boat sinking is. I would fight. Unless there is some more wording somewhere else.

G-Force,

If there was a hole in the bellows, couldn't it have been cause by hitting something that bounced up and poked a hole in the bellows? If it looks like a wear spot, couldn't a stick have gotten up in there while running and wore a hole in the bellows?

I punctured one of my bellows this year by hitting something that shattered the plastic cover on the anode and the plastic cut the bellows and the water line that goes from the drive to enigine. I was lucky compared to you. Mine would only leak while running and it took me a couple of weeks to find. I use through hull water pickups for the engines, so that line was blocked off.

Good luck!

g-force,they should cover your claim excluding the bellows and cost of repair,we do alot of insurance claims here,and they do love to put up a fight...the last sinker I repaired was caused by a failed bildge pump,they did not cover the original pump that was in the boat but covered the entire sinking claim even the 450 dollars an hour with 8 people to recover it off the bottom of a small lake in orlando........you need to request another surveyor company to be sent out by your insurance co. and also hire a seperate one yourself,make sure he is familiar with ins claims.I would also recommend the boat get checked a little better,a small tear in the bellows should not outrun a 2000 GPH rule pump,thats real hard to explain.Ive fought alot of ins companies in my time,and have always come out with the repairs needed..