Boomer:

Curved back Vee Bottom......... That was indeed a later Switzer. Nicknamed the "downhill Vee" it ran with a very low angle of attack......... due to a lack of forward entry lift. However, it turned great and ran fast in up to a medium chop..... Most of those boats sported Metalflake gel coat. One of the better racers, Joe Habay, from Michigan had a twin engine version which did pretty well on the race course. Those boats were built in the late 60's , early 70's and represented Switzer's move into the more traditional Checkmate/Allison/Hustler market. The latter boat in that trio( Hustler) has no relationship to the current boats manufactured on Long Island.

T2x

WOW WHAT A HISTORY LESSON! If they would've talked about this stuff in school my GPA would've been much higher.

Being a little younger I had never heard of this boat. Now I'm totally interested in your project.

Can't wait to hear more!

Scott

Glad to oblige........................I've been blessed with a lot of experience and a good memory.

Unfortunately, my knowledge is pale by comparison to the new color commentators on Offshore TV. I failed to commit various current boat manufacturer's sales baloney to memory, and neglected to parrot the "Party Line" regarding the "Fabulous, Stupendous, Business Model that is bringing the sport to greatness"....................(Yawn)

.........................rendering me obsolete.

T2x;)

P.S. I also can't wrestle!

OK,T2x,it's time for a few words about the "Flying Boat" that the late,great John McCall developed(or tried to) for Mercury years ago. You probrably know more about it than any of us. John built us a couple of wood tunnels in the early 70's but he didn't seem to want to discuss that project.Can you enlighten us? Magicfloat

MagicFloat:

I saw it.....................Most of the others who were involved are dead..................... If I say anything..................my life is in jeopa-----


No, No I was only!!! ...no I promise!!.....no I swear......

Not that!!!!!!!!!!!!, Any thing but That..............

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.... THIS IS MERCURY CONTROL.....T2X HAS EXCEEDED GUIDELINES AND IS RECEIVING CORRECTIVE TRAINING................. AFTER THIS PROCESS WHICH INVOLVES LISTENING TO REGGIE FOUNTAIN'S ANNUAL SHAREHOLDER SPEECH REPEATEDLY, HE WILL BE RETURNED TO FREE PUBLIC ACCESS....

What happened???? Why is there drool all over my shirt???

Who are these guys with the black suits?

What are you doing with that needle??

OOOH that feels good..........

TX2 You said you were blessed with a memory and I say AMEN TO THAT. This is very cool stuff we are all learning hear. It is so cool to see info on these boats that I never even knew existed. This looks like it is going to be one killer project for the two of you. I can not waite to see the progress.

What did these boats sell for way back when and what do they tipically go for now? I used to have a Merc 150xs that I should have held on to. Especially since the moron that I sold it to blew it up a week after he bought it off me (low water preasure, bad impeller). Miss that old motor, it ran so well!!!

Jon

Switzer
 

My first boat was a 1954 wooden Switzer. You drove from the back seat, it was a twin cockpit about 13 ft long. It had a 35 hp Johnson and did about 35 mph- for a 15 yr old kid this was great.

In the mid 70's I saw a fiberglass Switzer a t a dealer in Mich. and the brochure listed 2 boats, a 16 and a 18' ft as I remember. They had the metalflake gel coat. There was a saying on the brochure:

" When the waves are high, watch the Switzers go by"

Does this ring any bells with anyone?

Man ancient history, considering I am 47 now.

Sold the Switzer in 1974 for $300, it was free to me. This is because i now had a 16' Wriedt Spoiler (checkmate knokoff) which I had a 135 Evinrude on it- max hp rated. It did 55 mph and was big doins for an 18 yr old. I raced the local Donzi at the time w/ a 270 hp I/O and we were dead even all the time.

Wannabe in Motor City

T2x Congratulations, to both you and your son!.
I would love to have a wing (or see one in person for that matter), for the coolness factor. I am way to young (I wasn't even a sparkle in my fathers eye yet) to remember them. But know of them because of the fiberglassics sight.
Anyhow I hope you document the entire progress on this project.

As a side note do you know "Raceman" over at the scream and fly sight?, he has a collection that as far as I know is unsurpassed.

RT

Don't know a "Raceman" but if he has a real name, I might very well know or know of him.

Thanks,

T2x

I don't have a last name, his first is Norris.
He used to run the Kilos if that helps (nice little 15 Allison with a T3.................till he crashed)

I can get you his e-mail if interested.

RT

. . thats why we value your opinion :cool:

Come to think of it......................That's why I value my opinion too:D

T2x

So much for memory.................an individual whom I respect greatly, Mark 75H, informs that I have posted some erroneous info regarding the wings....and he will provide the corrections.

I'm not sure what specifically he is referring to, but I'm thinking its the number built and other details. I believe I have the essential story correct, however, having witnessed a lot of it first hand.

I'll await his corrections and post as received.

Thanks amigo,

T2x

good luck,you found your treasure!!! tripps :D :D :D

Last i heard (a year or so ago)Bob Switzer was alive and well in Crystal Lake,Il. He did a lot of interviews with Jeff Bowman and does not have a computer or e-mail address. Maybe some members can find a way to contact him and let him know of the current interest some of us have in the wonderful boats he and his brother and his dad built. I have no computer expertise,but board members do. It was Jeff Bowman's Cathouse,linked from Fiberglassics.com, the switzer wing site.You computer guys,find Jeff,he is very close to Bob Switzer and could really add to this thread.

Does Darren know about this project yet or is this a secret? We need to get started on the web site for the project.

T2x has the essentials correct, some dates and numbers wrong, a few other details. :)

Bigger version of the picture from the Champion Spark Plug ad. You can see the step in the bottom that is normally hidden by the side skirt and a little of the flap at the back of the tunnel.

This just squeeks in here at about 70k.

I spoke to Bob Switzer about three years ago......He attempted to help me find a Wing at that time and we reminisced about the glory days. I will reach out to him again.

T2x

T2x,

I thank you very much for the wealth of info included here and all of your posts. ;)

Looking at these pictures, brings back what I think are memories. As I don't believe there ever was anything that looked quite like these Switzer Wings, this must be what a neighbor of mine had growing up in New Jersey. I remember it being very fast and always made a spectacle drawing a crowd at the docks.

How were these boats balanced laterally? It seems that something would have to be done, wether it be counter-weights or tabs, to overcome the weight of the driver in the illustrated configuration. Were there both one and two seat models?

Thanks! :cool:

Switzer Wings were all 2 seaters due to the fact at the time they were developed seating for 2 was required; similar to the CANAM car racing series requiring 2 seats and 2 doors. Many racing boats favor carrying wieght on the left which is the inside side for turning. By today's standards the Switzer Wings were heavy boats. I think Bob Switzer is quoted saying one of them they actually weighed was 1,000 lbs fully loaded. With all that area in the fuselage you could easily put fuel tanks and batteries on the right side if you needed to improve weight distribution.

I am waiting to hear back from Jeff Bowman regarding posting his letters from Bob Switzer here or getting them back on the Fiberglassics site.

Mark75H,I hope you are successful in getting Jeff Bowman's article back up. It is a most interesting read. I printed all of it a couple of years ago but all I can find now is Bob's account of"The day I flew a Boat",his account of the maiden voyage at 100mph with 80hp stock Mercs.This thread is becoming one of the best on OSO. Keep it going. MagicFloat.

Thanks a million, Mark!
:cool:

Baja:

There actually was one single seat Wing. Dave Craig's Miss Skyway was modified (Mutilated) at the Lake. Both Dorsal fins were cut off and the cockpit moved to the center of the wing. The boat had a vast flat deck affixed , was painted white and raced in the 9 hour Orange Bowl Regatta in and out of Miami Marine Stadium and Biscayne Bay in January, 1966. The boat no longer performed as well as the other Wings., and was not a competitive factor. There was a red wooden Wing copy in the race called "Miss Subway" out of Chicago which performed dreadfully as well.

That is the same event at which Hank Bowman was killed after being run over by his own boat repeatedly, and created the rules which mandate kill switches to this day.

The race was eventually won overall by Bob Nordskog in a Modified Rayson Craft called "Shark's Tooth"...... Nordskog later took a mold off this boat and created his Viking Spirit marathon hulls. That boat featured the first hydraulically dampened seat shock absorbers.

Second place in twin engine outboard went to a 17 foot factory Glastron (K&K Outboard) driven by the late Ken Kalibat Sr. and his impetuous employee, Rich Luhrs. Someday, I'll post the story about Luhrs losing his temper at Ol' E.C. during that event.

A second year racer named George Linder DNF'd with his twin Merc ,Carlson skateboard.........er boat named "Challenger I". HMMM Makes you wonder where he got the name for his later award winning 21 footer.......eh?

There were so many starters in that race that a helicopter was used to drop white flower as a start signal. It took over 6 minutes for all the boats to cross the STARTING line....kind of like the NY Road Runner Marathon today.

That's why all this malarky about bold new large fleets in racing is so insulting to veterans.....who know better.

T2x

P.S. The wing you refer to in N.J. was probably one of the original wooden ones. Billy Martin......... the Champion Offshore Racer......had one on Lake Hopatcong, but never got it to run right....... This was well before his first offshore race.....in 1965. The boat sat, for sale in a Gas Station up there for quite a while. Billy preferred a modified inboard hydro he had with twin modified 100 hp Mercs and a couch bolted in as a back seat. He and his cohorts, Bob Davis and co., would get drunk....go for wild rides in that thing(called "The Beast" as I recall) and come back to the dock at Northwood Boat and Motor Co........... Most of the time they neglected to tie it up and the boat would float off into the cove.......only to be retrieved the next time someone wanted a ride......

You can't make this stuff up....and yes.....I was there too. ;)

Remind me to tell you the story about the night Billy, Bob, and I launched a hapless racer's 13 foot Allison into a Motel pool in Lake George...before the 1966 OPC Nationals......

T2x.......... Grateful for the Statute of Limitations

That is a pretty sophisticated Flying Machine for being designed in the Late Fifty’s .Switzer from what I have seen was at a level far above the rest!

Gee even one of our Cat copy Cat or Cat Molders or whatever advertised a “Speed break thru”
This a couple years back. The Speed Rail!

I have seen that on a couple Boats by Allegedly Innovating People, but Switzer got it right the first time! The later Geniuses never could!! Only ending on their Heads! And you know why!

The first moveable tunnel flap I saw was on Bill Sirois’s Boat.this Much later on.

I worked with Bill, His Wife Made lunch for us sometimes which was also Story Time. Great Lady and a lot of Racing Stories Man time has flown!

Speaking of EC Did you hear the Story of him pushing his Car into a Hole and covering the thing with a Bulldozer at the Lake, Guess it did not start.

T2x,

Thank you very much and LMAO. Great info, Keep it coming...Now that pool story sounds intriguing.

Lake Hopatcong was the place, though it was much later. I don't think it was the same gentlemen you're referring to. :cool:

Steve:

Vida Sirois, Bill's wife, remains one of the great ladies of racing. She, and Bill, always made time for Darren at every event he attended................and drowned him in Popeye paraphernalia.

Back to the '66 Orange Bowl..............One of the factory Wings was driven by Odell Lewis. I don't remember what Sirois drove.
John Stenback was in a yellow cut down Vee bottom...... possibly an early Magnum. I think I recall Ron Hill in an Evinrude powered Glastron................with Hubbell lower units.

It was also the first race that Chrysler's racing outboards were entered in under Racing Director, George Thompson (ex Mercury).
They had these cute little "quickie" lower units.......and ran like crap.


T2x

the car buried at Lake X story
 

Back when they started at Lake X Kiekhaefer had a car phone set up there. I don't know the reason, maybe there were no phone lines out that far at that time...maybe having a phone would tip off the exact location...maybe he was paranoid about being wire tapped... anyhow word got out that this phone was not actually mounted mobile in a car and he got a nasty letter from the FCC........use it correctly or lose your license.

Just for spite he had an old junker dragged out there and put the phone in it. The story kinda snowballed from that.

Here's one they told on him at a dealer meeting just after he quit in the early 70's: One day back in the mid 1960's at Lake X he was walking from one building to another and saw a young guy just standing watching the boats go around. He marched up to the guy and asked "How much do you make a week, son?" The guy replied "$30 a week"........Kiekhaefer reached into his pocket and whipped out $30 and told him he never wanted to see him there again (thinking he was firing him). When the guy was done watching the boats he got back on the Coca-Cola trunk and he and his boss went to their next delivery.

Jeffery Rodengen's book "Iron Fist" has a few stories like these...but if you don't mind my literary criticsm.....has a lot of redundant material just to make more pages. Rodengen is an excellent business history writer who makes his living writing business magazine articles. Very good articles. When you write a freestanding article you have to include the history pertinent to that article. In a book there are some history things that only need to be mentioned once, or fully explained once and then briefly refered back to where appropriate. When the same thing came around the third or fourth time being explained as if the reader knew nothing about it, I got a little confused. After it happened three or four times with different facts I got used to it, but was a little put out by the wasted paper and ink (I wanted more pictures!).

Just the same I do recommend reading Iron Fist, Legend of OMC and Legend of Mercury Marine. Armed with my critique hopefully you will be happier with the books than I am.

Can anyone who has a copy of Legend of Mercury tell me what is unusual about the motor on page viii?

It's a 45 hp Merc 400 with a Quicksilver lower unit maybe from a Mark 30H?

You guys slay me........... To be concerned about details like those, when the key questions of existence go unanswered....like which rotation (left or right) did the Merc 800 "dock buster" spin?

:D

T2x

Left hand of course,that is why the early runabouts had the steering wheel on the left to conteract torque,but I thought everybody my age knew that.

BTW,T2x,the new Merc 225 hp4 stroke outboard will be an in-line 6,breaking away from the current V-6 configuration. I propose we call it the T4x four stroke.

T2x,

I met Jeff Buckley today and had the privledge of seeing your Switzer project boat first hand. The boat looks cool and Jeff seemed to be a really nice guy. I had no idea these things were so rare and worth so much, even unrestored.

Jeff gave me a little tour around the yard and shop and it was like being in a candy store if you like classic rare boats.

Jeff had another boat that I'am going to buy and is the reason I was there. Its not a performance boat, but after visiting the FiberGlassics site, I find these olds boats from the 50's & 60's so intriguing, that I want to have one.

I took a few pics and I hope you don't mind if I post them. The pics aren't really all that different than the ones that you have seen on the Glassic's site. I also saw some in water running shots of your boat on the site that I did not remember the first time I was there though.

Where the adjustable flap goes.

This was the only structual problem that you had mentioned, but did not look that bad.

The bottom of the hull was in exellent condition and glossy slick .:)

another

Close up of the inside.

Hey guys, back to the Switzer Wing for a minute. How did they steer those things back then? Did they have hydraulic steering in the 60’s? (Don’t tell me they user cables and pulleys at 100mph!) Did the have tie bars connecting the motors?

Curious in KC.