So many dynamics to this sport.....

I can remember the days of looking at Top Guns for sale... late 90's early 2000's.... was having the time of our lives and performance boats were going strong. Was in a boat club that was bursting at the seams with new entries, fun-runs/poker runs, awesome awesome times.... just memories now... performance boats/boat club just sort of fizzled away..

I've been working in the communications/IT business my whole career, but I've talked to others in different careers and it's the same story.... we were earning good wages and 5-10% pay increases year to year, steadily making good money with low interest rates... purchasing power was strong.... then... companies starting hurting... banks starting hurting.... many-many reasons... but wages stalled,, 1-2% increases/yr--- health care going up 25%/yr (employee contribution)(there was a time it was zero). Cost of living out-paced our wages... things just leveled-off/ plateaued.
We started cutting back... recreation time became less as we were working harder to get ahead or stay ahead... but eventually we gave-up. It's just not worth killing yourself to maintain this high-rolling lifestyle, and very little time to even enjoy it anymore. That, coupled with most of us being upside down in the boat we were in... we were up against the wall, and then started engaging the back-up plan just to keep what we had...
We got stung... and stung hard.... it's going to be a long while before I go out on that limb again...
We are now much wiser and live within our means.

I'll always be on the water... like others have said... it's my escape/my happy place/ the place I am the most relaxed... only now it's an old cruiser or runabout....

36 sonic to a 22 Pathfinder Bay boat here.

So much easier to use, launch, clean, and store.

Another thing hurting the performance segment is the "affordable boats" are all too old to finance now. You are stuck buying new from the handful of manufactures left or paying cash for what you find.

Higher cost of living with stagnate wage growth. Nothing else to debate.

This conversation was ongoing when I started at Powerboat magazine—in 1995. When I interviewed Lee Kimmell (then the head of Donzi) in the early 2000s, the topic of the declining high-performance marine industry dominated the interview. As longtime observer, and one who certainly doesn't have all the answers, I believe the decline is the product of multiple factors from economics to legislation to a shift within our own culture away from "mechanized things." (Worth noting: $100,000 wakeboard boats are still selling.) But there's really not one "cause." The decline has happened over time for multiple reasons.

Being a younger person (25) tomorrow, I'm trying hard to find a boat that I want and that is feasible for me financially. But, unfortunately most good boats that I want are more then I can afford. My friends think I'm crazy for wanting to buy performance boat, what they don't understand is like you guys said it's an escape for me and a happy place. I have been fortunate enough to have caught the performance boat bug by getting to use my dads 292 Fastech and before that a 22 Scarab at a young age.

Lucky enough for me I have no more student debt and I have had good jobs through University and a good job since I graduated, I'm in a much better situation than the majority of my friends who still have student debt and living hand to mouth most months. Whatever money I might spend on a boat digs into what a future down payment would be on a house. I have been in quite the battle of deciding should I or should I not be even looking, and its just the cold hard reality of performance boating is unfortunately expensive to get into and maintain ownership once you're in. I consider myself very, very lucky to even be in the position to get a boat, like I said earlier it cuts into other necessities that are higher on the priority list. With that said I'm crossing my fingers that hopefully one day soon I'll be on the water with my very own performance boat!

OH Have I Got A Story For All

We have been blessed to have a summer place in southern Michigan - inland lake - very nice and for the most part quiet. We have our 226 Cobalt out there most of the time and enjoy the skiing, tubing and just being on the water.

We have neighbors that can't find their bottom with both hands. Talk about DUMB -- not stupid -- DUMB. For the most part the homes around the lake are seasonal. While many have central heating/air-conditioning mostly everyone does not keep the heat on during the winter and drains their water systems. The 1st year that her neighbors had their summer home they decided not to drain the water nor keep the heat on. As a result when they showed up in the spring there was water almost everywhere. The commodes cracked pipes split-and the long and short -it was a mess. Of course they have funds to call a plumber, carpenter and have everything replaced/repaired. So the next year one would have assumed that they would have drained the water or at least keep the heat on. WRONG!! I kid you not for the next 3 years they did not change this behavior and for 3 years in a row they had plumbing and floring issues in the spring. In fact they have replaced their water heater no less than twice because it froze and cracked. Now we are not talking about stupid people. One of the owners is an attorney and the other is a IT administrator. But they do have an attitude well if it breaks we have enough money to just call somebody to have it fixed.

Regarding their boats-this is another story. They have owned this summer place for approximately 8 years. Within that. They have replaced a pontoon boat twice-not because it was inadequate for the use- it was for lack of common sense maintenance and upkeep.
Seats were left exposed, water would set in the wells and mold and rot settled in. When the Marina came to pick up or drop off the pontoon boat I spoke with the delivery person. He mentioned that there were 3 or 4 batteries in the boat that were perfectly good except that they were discharged and needed a charging. What the owner did was leave the radio on and the battery would drain. Instead of charging the battery he would just go out and buy a new one and leave the old one somewhere in the boat- some of the acid leaked out and wrecked the floor. Their speed boat and boat lifts are another story. The 1st week that they had the boat they didn't realize that out drives don't work well in shallow water and proceeded to rip the lower end off the boat. Of course they had that replaced. I've lost count on the number of propellers that have been replaced on the boat for sitting something or having the ski rope wrapped around it. They haven't changed the fuel filter or cleaned the air cleaner since new- at least they have the marina drain the block and change oil once a year. Then they complain that the boat is running right - and when the marina says they needed to do x y and z as routine - they didn't do it because it seemed to cost too much. Then we have the boat lift - The bunks are rotted and the carpet is all but gone. Rather than replace the wood they turned the bunks on edge and are using that to support the boat. However, the brackets that held the bunks extend about an inch on either side of the wood and are now being gouged into the fiberglass. Realizing that that was not a good thing they now have the boat on the boat lift but most of the boat is still in the water because they can't raise it up to get it out of the water without putting a hole in the bottom -- but don't have the sense to fix the primary cause. Far be it from me to comment on their party/drinking activities but they literally have a outbuilding that is filled with beer cans and bottles because they haven't had sense enough to thrown them in the trash. They have more trees on the property than you can shake a stick at - do them trim them - NO. So each year we have their branches into our yard and we haul away. The real problem is that some of the upper branches are rotted and it is only a matter of time before one goes down thru their house.

They have a cleaning service that comes out once a week to clean the interior of their house and a lawn service to mow the lawn. So from the outside things look relatively well-maintained but when you get to the nitty-gritty they don't know and they don't care. It really makes me sick to see people that have been given so much and yet can't take care of the basics.

3pointstar

I think a lot of it is due to the new generation of young people. The kids just don't seem to be interested in the outdoors or anything that doesn't involve electronics. I see it when I coach youth sports. Have to force the kids to put their phones away and go play ball! Even my own kids sometimes balk about going to the lake. Then they sit there playing with their phones the whole day. Kids today can't entertain themselves, they have no interest in anything mechanical and they expect everything to be handed to them. I think there are still the select few who are going for the wake board/surf boats which is great, but if there isn't something to entertain them, they aren't interested. Just being on the water, enjoying nature and the sights, smells and sound isn't of interest to our youth. Where I can sit on my boat all day alone and be happy as a clam! I know with my nieces for instance, if we don't take them tubing or boarding for 8 hrs, they don't want to go on the boat. They must be entertained! I feel that this is a big part of whats killing the whole boating industry.

I know the type. I have a similar friend who owns a business. Pays someone to do pretty much everything. The marina puts his boat in every Spring and by August there's so much mold that it's nasty! But he will never clean it. He'll just call someone to do it. People like that make me sick. And he's raising 4 kids to be the same way! He couldn't figure out how to use a screwdriver if he had to!

outboard boat sales are killing it and then outboard pontoon sales. By far is where all the sales are taking place

http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/2016/0...sletter-061316

I/O s very poor still in volume sales

http://static-tradeonlytoday-wp.s3.a...tsales0613.jpg

This has always been a niche hobby/obsession for most of us. I'm capable of doing a lot of the routine maintenance/repairs on my own, but with the overall cost to maintain/operate the boats with good power these days, I'm not sure I'm in that niche anymore.lol

Another way to look at it - We are the problem within itself. How many up here and even in this thread has bought a new boat within the last 10 years ??? And then next how many have NEVER even bought a NEW boat ever ???

Just asking

And if you did buy a new boat within the past 10 years was it a sportboat ???

The sportboat market has no supporting cast for buyers within the past 10 years and even within its own community to support new boat sales. That is the biggest problem.

Wakeboats 120 K for a 23 to 24 size boat, one purpose only - killing it all over the country in new boats year after year, They have huge amounts that support new boat sales, some every year and some every 5 years and most every 6 to 10 years step up and buy something new. Many buyers and many new buyers for that end of boating.

Malibu boats in 1 year only has more new sales than all I/O sportboats combined total from 2008 to currently. A 9 year run for all sportboats with I/O's compared to one wakeboard brand (Malibu) for 1 year only.

Think about those numbers.

Much different times...... dealers used to happily forge your paperwork and make it look like you were putting substantial money down..... then give you another set of papers showing the DMV you paid a lot less... to save on sales tax.... oh the good 'ole days of loose money. Inflated book values... 125% equity lines of credit...

Banks don't play that game anymore... :hitfan:

So, the OP is saying that Fountain Skanks are going to be on the endangered species list soon ?

Fawk Me !

There was always the 'haves and 'have-nots.... the gap is just much wider now...

I compare the wakeboard crowd to the skateboard crazies who have to jump steps/railings etc, etc.... and then X-games and even snowboard/ trick ski Olympics now...
Those kids have rich parents with disposable income and give those kids whatever they want...

We all knew the insurance man in town with a few kids of his own.... he would have a huge house, huge garage and a fleet of corvettes... kids had all the best stuff... motorcycles/ATV's,,, lake house with the biggest boat on the lake... now it's a Malibu or what-not for wakeboards...

And that's not even factoring in the hacks that have taken significant cash up front for a rebuild that never got completed or was shotty work that ended up needing it all redone.



That puts it into perspective!!!

I don't think wake boats are one use only. When we used to buy straight inboard ski nautiuges yes. But now they can hold a bunch of people, their toys, built in coolers, sound systems etc. you can ski, wake board, surf ( that's pretty cool really) or hang out at the tie up.

And Bup I know you have drove them, not fast but they will accelerate and turn very hard. The stuff we used to do can not be said they weren't performance other then top speed.

Granted they ride rough but for lake boats what the heck. They do spend a ton of time in making the wakes right.

Can't back up for chit but you get used to it.

Does anyone think if someone started making some of the old school style jet boats in the 18-24 foot range again they could do it at a good price point and have the performance to match?

LSA motors in a small light package could be a lot of fun.

I use to sell wakeboats brand new as well. They handle rough water very poor some are like a bath tub out is the middle of lake. Some handle fair at best in the middle of lake. Most turn very well on dime. Some will rip your arms off from take off to WOT. Most are very slow top speed but the hull bottom is not for speed anyways.

If I was ever to think of what brand boat I would want to sell - it would have to be Malibu - I don't even like them period nor really any wakeboats. Most have stick on graphics, offer basic colors and design, many engines all look the same and so on, They sell very easily brand new year after year. Malibu is a public traded company FYI

Mastercraft for the past 4 or 5 years has done a step bottom design in their boats. They continue to use ILmor since 2010 - FYI

Mercruiser has zero market share in the ski and wake boat market. Volvo penta is trying like hell to gain market share in that market as they never had any until 2016. Again I say trying like hell (Volvo Penta)

The wakeboard boats I've looked at over the years at boat shows impress in terms of construction, fit and finish, quality of hardware, etc. At least I can see where some of the money is spent to justify the cost. Couldn't say the same on some of the since deceased sport boat lines.

My wife and I bought our first performance boat in 1998 - an 18 foot Baja (at least we thought it was a performance boat :) ). On Friday and Saturday nights we would sit out by the dam on Lake Cumberland and watch 20+ go-fasts pair up and race. It was an awesome show every weekend and fueled my desire to own a bigger and faster go-fast. Back at our Marina it seemed like there were performance boats everywhere. The stock market was roaring, gas was cheap and it seemed like every boat house at our 1200 slip marina had at least one performance boat. In our boathouse alone we had a 38 Fever with big power, a triple 42, and a 42 with huge staggered Cobras.

The first blow was the Tech Bubble crash of 2000. Around the same time gas prices started to climb. Come 2001 the impromptu boat races out at the dam had disappeared. By 2005 I was the only performance boater left in my boathouse. One by one the other performance boats across my marina mostly disappeared. We still had the Poker run on Cumberland and LCM to keep up my interest in performance boats but my neighbors and friends at my marina just couldn't justify owning a performance boat anymore. Some got out of boating altogether, others moved on to houseboats, cruisers and pontoons.

Obviously the final blow was the credit bubble bursting in 2008. Fountain used to build 550 boats a year and I'll wager that the factory hasn't built 50 combined go-fasts since 2010.

I see our hobby now a lot like the muscle cars of the 60's and early 70's. There was a golden era when these awesome machines were mass-produced and the common-man could obtain them, but due to many factors that era is now gone. Unless a lot of things change in Washington the standard of living for the average American will continue to decline. The rich will still be able to afford to buy their toys, as the rich always do, but high-performance boating for the common-man is probably a thing of the past; with it went the mass-production of high-performance boats. However, because manufactures are producing so few new ones, and because they are such awesome toys, the used HP boat market seems to have stabilized. In some cases used performance boats are actually increasing in value, Nothing like muscle cars but bottom seems to be in for good quality used boats.

In the 1980's it suddenly became cool to own an old muscle car. Problem was they weren't building any more 1970 Hemi Cudas. Suddenly the old ones became collectible, as did all old muscle cars. Although it is true that the golden era of our sport is probably gone forever, there are still plenty of people interested in this hobby. Practicality be dammed, driving around in a Tri-toon Bennington isn't as thrilling as skimming across the waves at 100 mph with the roar of a big block in your ears. They have built about as many 38 Donzi ZR Comps since the financial crisis as they have 1970 Hemi Cudas. Although impractical, both are cool ass toys that can offer great thrills and enjoyment for their owners. So our sport has now become a hobby. I still intend to enjoy mine. I hope you continue to enjoy yours. :cool:

I disagree. Kids these days have had everything handed to them. They are not scared at all. They have never had to do anything and they don't plan on doing anything. The govt will forgive their college debts and take care of them just like momma used to so that they can sit home, be on facebook and play video games all day. We are creating our own worst nightmare with this new generation of democrats when they drive every bit of industry out of this country simply because the tax burden will just be too much. The end of this country is very near if there is not a drastic change in November.

As of right now no one is forgiving college debt unless you are getting into public service work and most that got those large student loans are not those people in those careers.

Another big factor was the banks deciding that financing boats was too risky a business with excessive write offs....especially sport boats. Insurance is also a challenge in the HP boat market.

Another is price of insurance. Like has been mentioned it's a lot of reasons but price. Price. Price.

There are so many people that are that way it is crazy. But it keeps places in business. I fix everything myself as I am sure most on here do also. Saves me thousands every year. I like cars with 100k on them because most people are scared because they have way to many miles. It is just society most are idiots.

Out here on the West Coast, I see lots of new boats on the water again, but they're all $50,000 to $150,000 pontoon and wakesurf/wakeboard boats. I haven't seen one new high performance boat on the water around here in years. It is a completely different scene from 10-15 years ago when a lot of guys were buying new high performance boats.

I say that because Lake Erie can go from 1' waves to 5' waves in an hour or less.

While I agree with you 100% about the decline of performance boats at Cumberland over the past few years, I was pleasantly surprised to see more than the usual number of go fasts out this past Saturday. I don't know if it was the weather or maybe people here early for the Thunder Run? Either way, it made me smile.

So why are boatwells so hard to find ? Up here in Traverse City area there are six marinas fro Leland north to Elk Rapids and all of them have waiting lists that approach 10 years. Someone buying boats.

Depressing post to see as a college kid who loves everything about this sport. But it is the world we live in. My old mans baja is sitting in the same place in the driveway as it was 4 years ago. Sometimes I'll go out and tinker with her and clean her up and just sit there and reminisce on our Cumberland trips our every weekend haul to the local lake and so on. I'm so lucky to have a dad who showed me and involved me with every aspect of owning a go fast. I'll always own a performance boat when I'm graduated and have the means to buy one. I don't care if it bankrupts me. Don't you fine gentleman think that you haven't left a mark for the better on our generation. We are here.

Remember I posted the hypothetical thread if you had 500K to spend but you get to keep the change after selling in 3 years........Not a single person bought a new boat!

I live/work in a very high end area. 2005, I knew several that got brand new boats (myself included). In the last 5 years I have seen a few new used boats show up. The 3 new boats I have seen have been in the last 6 months were a 38 Jupiter CC, a Bayliner Element (deck boat) and a 22 CC (base no name brand). Saw two clients dump big Viking sportfishes, one went to a used 34 CC and the other restored a small Gamefisherman (34 and it came out ridiculously gorgeous).

Thinking the same - They are not scared, in fact you may have to talk them out of Bernie Sanders.... because they don't get the ramifications.

I am in the process of buying a 353 fastech - 502's nothing crazy. My friends have: 46 black thunder 700SC's, 40 SS formula, and a 26 eliminator with 300 merc outboards, another acquaintance just got a 32 Skater. So this is all going on, I had not considered the broader trend really, I just know what makes me happy. My kids have experienced all these boats yet they want a pool instead - not feeling great about that, but I'm going for it anyway. I have been able to sell boats in my market in a week or 2, that is what I fear is going to change drastically. Last one was a 280ss formula sold in 3 days, 232 Baja before that sold in a week.

On an up note LOTO is boater paradise and if you have not been, they take this boating $h%^ seriously to another level!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeMIo0Iff6A

can someone do me a favor - post the video at 2015 LOTO shootout long line of boats at a complete stand still waiting to get at the ramps that went on for many miles. There was an extended version of this video, if all possible can you please post that or whatever. I need to send that over to a friend of mine. Thanks

Ran a toon at the shoot out in LOTO when everyone was leaving. It was fine, just slow and steady.

Whenever I throttle up the Donzi I have at least four of the youngsters (age 25 - 30 ) that live next door over on my dock. They want to go to heaven at 80 MPH on this old missile. They turn their hats backwards and really get into the grove. Do not think that the age of go fast boats is over. They love it. They all want the same thing that turned us on!

Us young folk are here! (26) Getting into the game is mega $$$ if you want a new boat right now, hard to buy a house and a boat of equal value at the same time... I am always shopping boats and hitting boat shows and I've yet to see a new sport boat that is even in reach in the next five years for me. Used they are out there but in ten years all of the current stock will be 20 years old and there won't be much In the used market 2010 to ???

Wake boats and pontoons are lined up in showrooms everywhere... Sport boats you have to seek out, and when you find them they are tricked out and high $$. not the best to try and hustle sales.