Are Great Lakes Really Rougher Than Oceans?
07-28-2016, 08:33 PM
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Are Great Lakes Really Rougher Than Oceans?
First off, I boat on the Great Lakes. Mostly Huron and Erie and connecting waters. Been on Lake Michigan 3 times. I've seen some really snotty water on all of the lakes and rivers. This new Carver Yacht ad says that the Great Lakes are the roughest waters on the planet! Really? What does "rock hard water" mean?
07-28-2016, 09:12 PM
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It will be interesting to see the thoughts here.
I have very limited ocean experience, as in not none, but almost none, but have grown up on the west side of Mi.
My perception is - IN GENERAL - the ocean gets the big, more gradual, swells, with more duration between the crests, which allows some pretty spectacular launches and more controlled or "softer" (another relative term) landings.
Lake MI I believe has steep waves, with much less time duration between them, which is more like running head on into a series of brick walls.
I think this is because for the most part the great lakes are comparatively shallow when compared to the open ocean, and the wave energy is more violent because it's more compressed.
I don't remember the year; early 80's I think ? The Betty Cook era when all the big names came to race in Grand Haven. The last year only 1 or 2 (google it I'm going by memory) even finished the race. Several quit, and several more were DNF. They didn't come back; too rough on the drivers and the equipment was the story I heard.
The most recent Boyne Thunder ? I wasn't there but by all accounts the water was 5'-6' ? From what I understand that wouldn't have caused a 2nd thought in the ocean.
But Lake MI. ? Real 5 footers ? The kind where for the most part when you're in the trough you're looking at water…steep water…on both sides of the boat?
I think most people not familiar with the Great Lakes have no frame of reference. I've been out west and have had people ask me "So, the great lakes are big?" And when I reply "Well, ships sink in them, so I guess you could say so, yeah, ever hear of the Edmund Fitzgerald?".
I'm not belittling the ocean; any big water can be unforgiving as hell and will absolutely take your lunch money if you're not paying attention & I wouldn't want to be caught in a storm on either. But if have to choose between being caught out on 6-10 on the ocean or Lk MI ? I'll roll my dice in the ocean, thanks.
Anyway…just my thoughts & I'm curious as to the thoughts from the guys who have run hard in both.
I have very limited ocean experience, as in not none, but almost none, but have grown up on the west side of Mi.
My perception is - IN GENERAL - the ocean gets the big, more gradual, swells, with more duration between the crests, which allows some pretty spectacular launches and more controlled or "softer" (another relative term) landings.
Lake MI I believe has steep waves, with much less time duration between them, which is more like running head on into a series of brick walls.
I think this is because for the most part the great lakes are comparatively shallow when compared to the open ocean, and the wave energy is more violent because it's more compressed.
I don't remember the year; early 80's I think ? The Betty Cook era when all the big names came to race in Grand Haven. The last year only 1 or 2 (google it I'm going by memory) even finished the race. Several quit, and several more were DNF. They didn't come back; too rough on the drivers and the equipment was the story I heard.
The most recent Boyne Thunder ? I wasn't there but by all accounts the water was 5'-6' ? From what I understand that wouldn't have caused a 2nd thought in the ocean.
But Lake MI. ? Real 5 footers ? The kind where for the most part when you're in the trough you're looking at water…steep water…on both sides of the boat?
I think most people not familiar with the Great Lakes have no frame of reference. I've been out west and have had people ask me "So, the great lakes are big?" And when I reply "Well, ships sink in them, so I guess you could say so, yeah, ever hear of the Edmund Fitzgerald?".
I'm not belittling the ocean; any big water can be unforgiving as hell and will absolutely take your lunch money if you're not paying attention & I wouldn't want to be caught in a storm on either. But if have to choose between being caught out on 6-10 on the ocean or Lk MI ? I'll roll my dice in the ocean, thanks.
Anyway…just my thoughts & I'm curious as to the thoughts from the guys who have run hard in both.
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There are 2 types of people in this world:
1. Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
07-28-2016, 09:27 PM
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I spent years playing in the pacific on pwc's. We would call in sick when storms came in and go out, damn near house size waves a couple miles offshore.
So the waves in the ocean can get much bigger, but they are big rollers going pretty much the same directions.
The great lake are smaller but you can have total slop...2 footers going one direction 3 footers going another now throw in some random bigger and smaller waves and big holes and everything is so close together it stacks up.....
So the waves in the ocean can get much bigger, but they are big rollers going pretty much the same directions.
The great lake are smaller but you can have total slop...2 footers going one direction 3 footers going another now throw in some random bigger and smaller waves and big holes and everything is so close together it stacks up.....
07-28-2016, 09:32 PM
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It will be interesting to see the thoughts here.
I have very limited ocean experience, as in not none, but almost none, but have grown up on the west side of Mi.
My perception is - IN GENERAL - the ocean gets the big, more gradual, swells, with more duration between the crests, which allows some pretty spectacular launches and more controlled or "softer" (another relative term) landings.
Lake MI I believe has steep waves, with much less time duration between them, which is more like running head on into a series of brick walls.
I think this is because for the most part the great lakes are comparatively shallow when compared to the open ocean, and the wave energy is more violent because it's more compressed.
I don't remember the year; early 80's I think ? The Betty Cook era when all the big names came to race in Grand Haven. The last year only 1 or 2 (google it I'm going by memory) even finished the race. Several quit, and several more were DNF. They didn't come back; too rough on the drivers and the equipment was the story I heard.
The most recent Boyne Thunder ? I wasn't there but by all accounts the water was 5'-6' ? From what I understand that wouldn't have caused a 2nd thought in the ocean.
But Lake MI. ? Real 5 footers ? The kind where for the most part when you're in the trough you're looking at water…steep water…on both sides of the boat?
I think most people not familiar with the Great Lakes have no frame of reference. I've been out west and have had people ask me "So, the great lakes are big?" And when I reply "Well, ships sink in them, so I guess you could say so, yeah, ever hear of the Edmund Fitzgerald?".
I'm not belittling the ocean; any big water can be unforgiving as hell and will absolutely take your lunch money if you're not paying attention & I wouldn't want to be caught in a storm on either. But if have to choose between being caught out on 6-10 on the ocean or Lk MI ? I'll roll my dice in the ocean, thanks.
Anyway…just my thoughts & I'm curious as to the thoughts from the guys who have run hard in both.
I have very limited ocean experience, as in not none, but almost none, but have grown up on the west side of Mi.
My perception is - IN GENERAL - the ocean gets the big, more gradual, swells, with more duration between the crests, which allows some pretty spectacular launches and more controlled or "softer" (another relative term) landings.
Lake MI I believe has steep waves, with much less time duration between them, which is more like running head on into a series of brick walls.
I think this is because for the most part the great lakes are comparatively shallow when compared to the open ocean, and the wave energy is more violent because it's more compressed.
I don't remember the year; early 80's I think ? The Betty Cook era when all the big names came to race in Grand Haven. The last year only 1 or 2 (google it I'm going by memory) even finished the race. Several quit, and several more were DNF. They didn't come back; too rough on the drivers and the equipment was the story I heard.
The most recent Boyne Thunder ? I wasn't there but by all accounts the water was 5'-6' ? From what I understand that wouldn't have caused a 2nd thought in the ocean.
But Lake MI. ? Real 5 footers ? The kind where for the most part when you're in the trough you're looking at water…steep water…on both sides of the boat?
I think most people not familiar with the Great Lakes have no frame of reference. I've been out west and have had people ask me "So, the great lakes are big?" And when I reply "Well, ships sink in them, so I guess you could say so, yeah, ever hear of the Edmund Fitzgerald?".
I'm not belittling the ocean; any big water can be unforgiving as hell and will absolutely take your lunch money if you're not paying attention & I wouldn't want to be caught in a storm on either. But if have to choose between being caught out on 6-10 on the ocean or Lk MI ? I'll roll my dice in the ocean, thanks.
Anyway…just my thoughts & I'm curious as to the thoughts from the guys who have run hard in both.
That is a good description but the same can be said for the gulf stream here with the wind going the wrong way and even the Bahama bank on a windy day. For sure the ocean can get much rougher and much bigger waves than the Great lakes but both get nasty enough to sink ships. The truth is if it is windy enough any body of water becomes a ****ty place to be!
07-28-2016, 09:34 PM
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I never boated on the ocean, but a good buddy did a lot, and he said Lake Erie on the right days is worse then any ocean condition he boated, now that's also talking both being same height of waves, not 4 ft vs 20 ft lol
Great lakes especially Erie whips up from 1 ft to 5 footers in 5 minutes... when a storm rolls in... very hard to stay in throttles of the boat also because the short waves that are still kinda high, Sandusky Ohio channel is great on a busy Saturday....
This literally went from 1 footers to this in 10 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygvWLHZJfpo
Great lakes especially Erie whips up from 1 ft to 5 footers in 5 minutes... when a storm rolls in... very hard to stay in throttles of the boat also because the short waves that are still kinda high, Sandusky Ohio channel is great on a busy Saturday....
This literally went from 1 footers to this in 10 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygvWLHZJfpo
07-28-2016, 09:35 PM
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Great lakes chop on a 34 ft Powerquest, see what short waves will do, listen to that boat, 2-3 footers...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaHPmFbdt58
My Mistress the same day...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZny1FDQ2CI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaHPmFbdt58
My Mistress the same day...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZny1FDQ2CI
Last edited by Full Force; 07-28-2016 at 09:40 PM.
07-28-2016, 10:49 PM
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Every year when I`m on Vacation in Florida I watch the ocean and wish Lake Michigan was that predictable.
I think it comes down to spacing, too close together makes it no fun if you can`t span them. One top of one wave and the nose is already hitting the next one, so you try to pick up speed to get on top all the while trying to avoid them rogue ones that launch the boat. Thats if you`re lucky for them to be coming from one direction.
I think most people are surprised at the size of the "Lake"
I think it comes down to spacing, too close together makes it no fun if you can`t span them. One top of one wave and the nose is already hitting the next one, so you try to pick up speed to get on top all the while trying to avoid them rogue ones that launch the boat. Thats if you`re lucky for them to be coming from one direction.
I think most people are surprised at the size of the "Lake"
