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Originally Posted by jusabum
(Post 4492936)
The Skaters were never CAD/CAM engineered or wind tunnel developed. They were guess-work design at best, and they made "changes" based on best-guess analysis after testing or an accident. If one of them stuffed, add more recovery to the front entry. If it barrel-rolled, widen the tunnel. And etc. So, what makes the 1996 model limited to a certain top speed versus a 2006 model? It was simple, too much bow rise, add a little wedge in the back to hold the nose down, or change props, or raise drives. It was all common sense testing, find errors, figure it out. Fix it. I'm NOT disrespecting Skaters contribution to the industry, I just don't think people are aware at how little technology is involved in these boats.
Not bashing , but curious. |
Originally Posted by jusabum
(Post 4492936)
The Skaters were never CAD/CAM engineered or wind tunnel developed. They were guess-work design at best, and they made "changes" based on best-guess analysis after testing or an accident. If one of them stuffed, add more recovery to the front entry. If it barrel-rolled, widen the tunnel. And etc. So, what makes the 1996 model limited to a certain top speed versus a 2006 model? It was simple, too much bow rise, add a little wedge in the back to hold the nose down, or change props, or raise drives. It was all common sense testing, find errors, figure it out. Fix it. I'm NOT disrespecting Skaters contribution to the industry, I just don't think people are aware at how little technology is involved in these boats.
I'm not knocking pete. But imo every change made skaters since this 36' boat would only make them more likely to blow over (wider and lighter). |
Quick easy idea: a rudder set back multiple feet from the transom. As the angle of attack goes up, it gets stuffed in the water. It could even have a flat area higher that really digs in hard if the angle is extreme. There wouldn't be an extra drag compared to your normal skeg if it's the same depth.
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Another. moving the engines forward. I feel like this is happening already with the tunnel extensions and bussels to some extent.
Also: changing mass distribution in the boat to give it a higher polar moment of inertia in the fore aft plane. On that same tangent, a sea keeper gyro system. |
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by hogie roll
(Post 4493001)
Quick easy idea: a rudder set back multiple feet from the transom. As the angle of attack goes up, it gets stuffed in the water. It could even have a flat area higher that really digs in hard if the angle is extreme. There wouldn't be an extra drag compared to your normal skeg if it's the same depth.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]560644[/ATTACH] Pic from Google/Bruce Bullock marine |
I do not disagree with the design procedures of the boats that built back in the day and the way some are built today. Your point is a valid. Nor am I here to defend Skater but I ask all you this question.
1) How many times has any boat ran over 190mph? Not to mention being in the 36' size range. 2) Of all the runs over 190mph not counting the big Mystics or turbine boats how many other manufactures other than Skater have accomplished this? Gino's MTI did it and is the only other brand I am aware of. I would bet if they left this boat set up to run 170mph or less it would not have went over. Jim had told me many times they wanted to break 200mph. To the best of my knowledge the time trials being run that day were not on a closed course and limited to a mile. It was a radar run for top speed. We all know the boat ran 194mph at LOTO in a mile course. Maybe they were looking to break 200mph and were well on there way before it went over. Point is that if you take anything with a wing at those speeds it will fly at some point. There is a reason Nascar added restrictor plates, roof flaps etc. Indy car changed motors for less HP. NRHA shorten the length of the run. Reason being even with spoilers, and down force if the vehicle got out of shape it would lift and fly up in the air. You are also correct there were things that keep the bow down and make the boat safer. But just like they lose is fast. Add down force and maybe the boat only runs in the 180's? Cars have to deal with smooth pavement and only wind gusts on a track. Boats have many more variables no CAD design will help if you encounter something at those speeds that upset the running angle of wing. The dangers involved at those speeds will never be safe. Just my .02 cents. |
Originally Posted by Double Rigged
(Post 4493033)
I do not disagree with the design procedures of the boats that built back in the day and the way some are built today. Your point is a valid. Nor am I here to defend Skater but I ask all you this question.
1) How many times has any boat ran over 190mph? Not to mention being in the 36' size range. 2) Of all the runs over 190mph not counting the big Mystics or turbine boats how many other manufactures other than Skater have accomplished this? Gino's MTI did it and is the only other brand I am aware of. I would bet if they left this boat set up to run 170mph or less it would not have went over. Jim had told me many times they wanted to break 200mph. To the best of my knowledge the time trials being run that day were not on a closed course and limited to a mile. It was a radar run for top speed. We all know the boat ran 194mph at LOTO in a mile course. Maybe they were looking to break 200mph and were well on there way before it went over. Point is that if you take anything with a wing at those speeds it will fly at some point. There is a reason Nascar added restrictor plates, roof flaps etc. Indy car changed motors for less HP. NRHA shorten the length of the run. Reason being even with spoilers, and down force if the vehicle got out of shape it would lift and fly up in the air. You are also correct there were things that keep the bow down and make the boat safer. But just like they lose is fast. Add down force and maybe the boat only runs in the 180's? Cars have to deal with smooth pavement and only wind gusts on a track. Boats have many more variables no CAD design will help if you encounter something at those speeds that upset the running angle of wing. The dangers involved at those speeds will never be safe. Just my .02 cents. |
Originally Posted by Double Rigged
(Post 4493033)
I do not disagree with the design procedures of the boats that built back in the day and the way some are built today. Your point is a valid. Nor am I here to defend Skater but I ask all you this question.
1) How many times has any boat ran over 190mph? Not to mention being in the 36' size range. 2) Of all the runs over 190mph not counting the big Mystics or turbine boats how many other manufactures other than Skater have accomplished this? Gino's MTI did it and is the only other brand I am aware of. I would bet if they left this boat set up to run 170mph or less it would not have went over. Jim had told me many times they wanted to break 200mph. To the best of my knowledge the time trials being run that day were not on a closed course and limited to a mile. It was a radar run for top speed. We all know the boat ran 194mph at LOTO in a mile course. Maybe they were looking to break 200mph and were well on there way before it went over. Point is that if you take anything with a wing at those speeds it will fly at some point. There is a reason Nascar added restrictor plates, roof flaps etc. Indy car changed motors for less HP. NRHA shorten the length of the run. Reason being even with spoilers, and down force if the vehicle got out of shape it would lift and fly up in the air. You are also correct there were things that keep the bow down and make the boat safer. But just like they lose is fast. Add down force and maybe the boat only runs in the 180's? Cars have to deal with smooth pavement and only wind gusts on a track. Boats have many more variables no CAD design will help if you encounter something at those speeds that upset the running angle of wing. The dangers involved at those speeds will never be safe. Just my .02 cents. |
Originally Posted by Double Rigged
(Post 4493033)
I do not disagree with the design procedures of the boats that built back in the day and the way some are built today. Your point is a valid. Nor am I here to defend Skater but I ask all you this question.
1) How many times has any boat ran over 190mph? Not to mention being in the 36' size range. 2) Of all the runs over 190mph not counting the big Mystics or turbine boats how many other manufactures other than Skater have accomplished this? Gino's MTI did it and is the only other brand I am aware of. I would bet if they left this boat set up to run 170mph or less it would not have went over. Jim had told me many times they wanted to break 200mph. To the best of my knowledge the time trials being run that day were not on a closed course and limited to a mile. It was a radar run for top speed. We all know the boat ran 194mph at LOTO in a mile course. Maybe they were looking to break 200mph and were well on there way before it went over. Point is that if you take anything with a wing at those speeds it will fly at some point. There is a reason Nascar added restrictor plates, roof flaps etc. Indy car changed motors for less HP. NRHA shorten the length of the run. Reason being even with spoilers, and down force if the vehicle got out of shape it would lift and fly up in the air. You are also correct there were things that keep the bow down and make the boat safer. But just like they lose is fast. Add down force and maybe the boat only runs in the 180's? Cars have to deal with smooth pavement and only wind gusts on a track. Boats have many more variables no CAD design will help if you encounter something at those speeds that upset the running angle of wing. The dangers involved at those speeds will never be safe. Just my .02 cents. |
Originally Posted by flight club
(Post 4493059)
A 33 eliminator ran 193 at the shoot out a couple years ago. I could not believe it. Very impressive
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