Szolack withdrawing from Shootout Action
10-21-2016 | 04:47 PM
#171
Registered
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 331
Likes: 84
Again, much respect to Mr. Szolnack, and I am no expert....but after watching this video, it appears this boat is running so light that it is sponson-walking from the "gust" of wind, (side-to-side)...balls of steel to keep pushing it once that is happening. And it may not be what it looks like, just my half-ass guess.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TluhQtcXXUU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TluhQtcXXUU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TluhQtcXXUU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TluhQtcXXUU
10-23-2016 | 10:49 AM
#173
Gold Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,989
Likes: 214
From: Rochester, NY
I’ve been watching this thread with great interest. I think the OP is doing a very noble and intelligent thing here and states his case with clear conviction. Two thumbs up!
But the reason I’ve been keeping an eye on this thread is that I too have some pretty strong feelings about going fast in power boats. Before I share those feelings though, let be share my qualifications. I’ve been boating for just over 55 years. I am the past Vice President and Race Director for the Rochester Offshore Powerboat Association. I participated in and ran a number of local and divisional APBA races for the club. I have also participated in and helped run our Poker Runs since the late 1980’s and used to co-run (with another Progression owner and OSO member) the Radar Runs for ROPA every year at our annual Seneca Lake Battleship Run. I was also instrumental in ending our Radar Runs about 5 years ago due to concerns about safety and liability.
So what do I think about Radar Runs or any other event where the goal is seeing how fast somebody can run over a (hopefully) closed course? Sadly, I’m no longer in favor of doing it. And the fact that we’ve lost a number of good people over the past couple of years in events like this just further strengthens my resolve. There was a time – about five to ten years ago – when this kind of thing was pretty exciting and even I enjoyed participating in them. (Hell, I have a few trophies to prove it too.) So what changed?
The first thing that changed was how much power was / is readily available at a reasonable cost to screw into ones boat. Remember when 500 HP was “over the top?” Today, it’s not at all unusual to find warrantied 1,500 HP (or greater) motors readily available. That’s double and triple (or more) power than we had a few short years ago.
The second thing to change is actually something that didn’t change all that much: the hulls we’re putting all of this new found power into. Sure, stepped V -hulls are a relatively new development, but one can argue that in a straight line, they actually made for a safer top speed since one didn’t need to “trim to the stars” for that last few MPH. (Of course if one turns the wheel a bit, all bets are off.) One can also argue that catamaran hulls haven’t changed all that dramatically and they react quite positively to adding a Flux Capacitor (or two) under the hatches. Just look at the numbers folks are running now as compared to just five years ago. In summary, there’s been a dramatic uptick in the speeds that just about anybody can attain.
Related to the above, although safety systems and technologies have advanced pretty well over the past few years, the speeds it is now possible to run have outpaced the ability of the safety systems to protect both occupants and spectators. You Physics majors all know that doubling the speed (velocity) of a boat way more than doubles the impact forces involved in a crash. And last time I checked, only the top offshore teams could afford and / or have installed and actually use the very latest stuff.
So here’s my most important point and opinion. I believe that it is now far too easy to go fast enough to kill somebody in a powerboat. You can argue that canopies, helmets, Lifeline vests, kill switches, etc. should help save lives, but they’re all pretty much useless at the speeds we’re now seeing. (Remember, you can roller skate on water at about 60 MPH.) The sad truth is that most folks running in organized “radar runs” can run speeds far in excess of their boats or bodies abilities to withstand a crash. And I will reluctantly add that a small, but troubling percentage of drivers are not capable of running as fast as their boats can.
The other issue is liability. Hopefully I’ve proved my point that it’s now way too easy to go way too fast. Knowing that, who in their right mind would want to organize and run an event where one was clearly tempting fate? And for those who think that having participants signing any kind of Waiver will protect you from getting dragged through the court system, forget it. (Hopefully Mark Blondin will chime in and reinforce that point.)
In summary, I applaud the OP’s decision not to run in future events and fully agree with his personal reasoning. I further suggest that we need to address the gap between attainable top speeds and safety before somebody else steps in and does it for us. Remember, it took the death of Dale Earnhardt Sr. to wake NASCAR up to the fact that they had the exact same problem we now have.
But the reason I’ve been keeping an eye on this thread is that I too have some pretty strong feelings about going fast in power boats. Before I share those feelings though, let be share my qualifications. I’ve been boating for just over 55 years. I am the past Vice President and Race Director for the Rochester Offshore Powerboat Association. I participated in and ran a number of local and divisional APBA races for the club. I have also participated in and helped run our Poker Runs since the late 1980’s and used to co-run (with another Progression owner and OSO member) the Radar Runs for ROPA every year at our annual Seneca Lake Battleship Run. I was also instrumental in ending our Radar Runs about 5 years ago due to concerns about safety and liability.
So what do I think about Radar Runs or any other event where the goal is seeing how fast somebody can run over a (hopefully) closed course? Sadly, I’m no longer in favor of doing it. And the fact that we’ve lost a number of good people over the past couple of years in events like this just further strengthens my resolve. There was a time – about five to ten years ago – when this kind of thing was pretty exciting and even I enjoyed participating in them. (Hell, I have a few trophies to prove it too.) So what changed?
The first thing that changed was how much power was / is readily available at a reasonable cost to screw into ones boat. Remember when 500 HP was “over the top?” Today, it’s not at all unusual to find warrantied 1,500 HP (or greater) motors readily available. That’s double and triple (or more) power than we had a few short years ago.
The second thing to change is actually something that didn’t change all that much: the hulls we’re putting all of this new found power into. Sure, stepped V -hulls are a relatively new development, but one can argue that in a straight line, they actually made for a safer top speed since one didn’t need to “trim to the stars” for that last few MPH. (Of course if one turns the wheel a bit, all bets are off.) One can also argue that catamaran hulls haven’t changed all that dramatically and they react quite positively to adding a Flux Capacitor (or two) under the hatches. Just look at the numbers folks are running now as compared to just five years ago. In summary, there’s been a dramatic uptick in the speeds that just about anybody can attain.
Related to the above, although safety systems and technologies have advanced pretty well over the past few years, the speeds it is now possible to run have outpaced the ability of the safety systems to protect both occupants and spectators. You Physics majors all know that doubling the speed (velocity) of a boat way more than doubles the impact forces involved in a crash. And last time I checked, only the top offshore teams could afford and / or have installed and actually use the very latest stuff.
So here’s my most important point and opinion. I believe that it is now far too easy to go fast enough to kill somebody in a powerboat. You can argue that canopies, helmets, Lifeline vests, kill switches, etc. should help save lives, but they’re all pretty much useless at the speeds we’re now seeing. (Remember, you can roller skate on water at about 60 MPH.) The sad truth is that most folks running in organized “radar runs” can run speeds far in excess of their boats or bodies abilities to withstand a crash. And I will reluctantly add that a small, but troubling percentage of drivers are not capable of running as fast as their boats can.
The other issue is liability. Hopefully I’ve proved my point that it’s now way too easy to go way too fast. Knowing that, who in their right mind would want to organize and run an event where one was clearly tempting fate? And for those who think that having participants signing any kind of Waiver will protect you from getting dragged through the court system, forget it. (Hopefully Mark Blondin will chime in and reinforce that point.)
In summary, I applaud the OP’s decision not to run in future events and fully agree with his personal reasoning. I further suggest that we need to address the gap between attainable top speeds and safety before somebody else steps in and does it for us. Remember, it took the death of Dale Earnhardt Sr. to wake NASCAR up to the fact that they had the exact same problem we now have.
10-23-2016 | 11:20 AM
#174
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,041
Likes: 712
From: Toledo Oh
I do find it odd that after all the hype and fanfare over the boatm that as soon as they got enough bugs worked out to actually start testing at speed it vanished. I also never understood the canopy... With all the talk over a small eggshaped pod being possibly the best way to protect the occupants, and a goal to make a safe boat to attain records, they made a canopy the size of a small schoolbus with rows of seats
10-23-2016 | 11:50 AM
#175
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 331
Likes: 84
So what do I think about Radar Runs or any other event where the goal is seeing how fast somebody can run over a (hopefully) closed course? Sadly, I’m no longer in favor of doing it. And the fact that we’ve lost a number of good people over the past couple of years in events like this just further strengthens my resolve. There was a time – about five to ten years ago – when this kind of thing was pretty exciting
----- I feel if somebody has there urge to go this fast, build a TOP FUEL Drag boat that has "seemed" to keep the majority of its racers safe during an accident. AGAIN, these are Offshore boats that were NEVER intended to go this fast or run in a straight line. Somehow, EVERYONE lost sight of true offshore racing. People need to push this sport back where it belongs, cool thing is, these people will find that the Need For Speed is more thrilling over rough water where it requires talent and balls at speeds that are much safer - stuff still happens, but I feel todays offshore safety equipment is good enough for "realistic offshore racing, not 50' rocket powered sleds.
Although safety systems and technologies have advanced pretty well over the past few years,
----Honestly, and not arguing, but I personally disagree on this, I believe the cockpit enclosures may look better, but are no further ahead of 10-15 years ago. The Jesse James 50 and Popeyes 50 had the best money could design
the speeds it is now possible to run have outpaced the ability of the safety systems to protect both occupants and spectators.
----Example. 46' Outerlimits went over at 150MPH, correct? Fully enclosed safety system, correct? There is always the G force that will get the racers if they survive all else..
The issue as I see it, as long as these events are available, somebody gonna be out there pushing it. And that is their right to do so. So, eliminate the events, or restrict/limit the HP and boat size to where they run close to the same, but then it will come down to setup and skills, not shear HP that is dependent on how much cash somebody is willing to spend.
Just my 02 cents. And thanks for your input, this thread should be "stuck" at the top so others see it and maybe think about what is being said.
Happy Sunday!
----- I feel if somebody has there urge to go this fast, build a TOP FUEL Drag boat that has "seemed" to keep the majority of its racers safe during an accident. AGAIN, these are Offshore boats that were NEVER intended to go this fast or run in a straight line. Somehow, EVERYONE lost sight of true offshore racing. People need to push this sport back where it belongs, cool thing is, these people will find that the Need For Speed is more thrilling over rough water where it requires talent and balls at speeds that are much safer - stuff still happens, but I feel todays offshore safety equipment is good enough for "realistic offshore racing, not 50' rocket powered sleds.
Although safety systems and technologies have advanced pretty well over the past few years,
----Honestly, and not arguing, but I personally disagree on this, I believe the cockpit enclosures may look better, but are no further ahead of 10-15 years ago. The Jesse James 50 and Popeyes 50 had the best money could design
the speeds it is now possible to run have outpaced the ability of the safety systems to protect both occupants and spectators.
----Example. 46' Outerlimits went over at 150MPH, correct? Fully enclosed safety system, correct? There is always the G force that will get the racers if they survive all else..
The issue as I see it, as long as these events are available, somebody gonna be out there pushing it. And that is their right to do so. So, eliminate the events, or restrict/limit the HP and boat size to where they run close to the same, but then it will come down to setup and skills, not shear HP that is dependent on how much cash somebody is willing to spend.
Just my 02 cents. And thanks for your input, this thread should be "stuck" at the top so others see it and maybe think about what is being said.
Happy Sunday!
Last edited by jusabum; 10-23-2016 at 11:54 AM.
10-23-2016 | 01:52 PM
#176
Registered
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 414
Likes: 1
From: Overland Park, KS 87mm Loto
So what do I think about Radar Runs or any other event where the goal is seeing how fast somebody can run over a (hopefully) closed course? Sadly, I’m no longer in favor of doing it. And the fact that we’ve lost a number of good people over the past couple of years in events like this just further strengthens my resolve. There was a time – about five to ten years ago – when this kind of thing was pretty exciting
----- I feel if somebody has there urge to go this fast, build a TOP FUEL Drag boat that has "seemed" to keep the majority of its racers safe during an accident. AGAIN, these are Offshore boats that were NEVER intended to go this fast or run in a straight line. Somehow, EVERYONE lost sight of true offshore racing. People need to push this sport back where it belongs, cool thing is, these people will find that the Need For Speed is more thrilling over rough water where it requires talent and balls at speeds that are much safer - stuff still happens, but I feel todays offshore safety equipment is good enough for "realistic offshore racing, not 50' rocket powered sleds.
Although safety systems and technologies have advanced pretty well over the past few years,
----Honestly, and not arguing, but I personally disagree on this, I believe the cockpit enclosures may look better, but are no further ahead of 10-15 years ago. The Jesse James 50 and Popeyes 50 had the best money could design
the speeds it is now possible to run have outpaced the ability of the safety systems to protect both occupants and spectators.
----Example. 46' Outerlimits went over at 150MPH, correct? Fully enclosed safety system, correct? There is always the G force that will get the racers if they survive all else..
The issue as I see it, as long as these events are available, somebody gonna be out there pushing it. And that is their right to do so. So, eliminate the events, or restrict/limit the HP and boat size to where they run close to the same, but then it will come down to setup and skills, not shear HP that is dependent on how much cash somebody is willing to spend.
Just my 02 cents. And thanks for your input, this thread should be "stuck" at the top so others see it and maybe think about what is being said.
Happy Sunday!
----- I feel if somebody has there urge to go this fast, build a TOP FUEL Drag boat that has "seemed" to keep the majority of its racers safe during an accident. AGAIN, these are Offshore boats that were NEVER intended to go this fast or run in a straight line. Somehow, EVERYONE lost sight of true offshore racing. People need to push this sport back where it belongs, cool thing is, these people will find that the Need For Speed is more thrilling over rough water where it requires talent and balls at speeds that are much safer - stuff still happens, but I feel todays offshore safety equipment is good enough for "realistic offshore racing, not 50' rocket powered sleds.
Although safety systems and technologies have advanced pretty well over the past few years,
----Honestly, and not arguing, but I personally disagree on this, I believe the cockpit enclosures may look better, but are no further ahead of 10-15 years ago. The Jesse James 50 and Popeyes 50 had the best money could design
the speeds it is now possible to run have outpaced the ability of the safety systems to protect both occupants and spectators.
----Example. 46' Outerlimits went over at 150MPH, correct? Fully enclosed safety system, correct? There is always the G force that will get the racers if they survive all else..
The issue as I see it, as long as these events are available, somebody gonna be out there pushing it. And that is their right to do so. So, eliminate the events, or restrict/limit the HP and boat size to where they run close to the same, but then it will come down to setup and skills, not shear HP that is dependent on how much cash somebody is willing to spend.
Just my 02 cents. And thanks for your input, this thread should be "stuck" at the top so others see it and maybe think about what is being said.
Happy Sunday!
10-23-2016 | 02:23 PM
#178
Registered
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,654
Likes: 29
Respectfully survivability and quality of life following an accident are two different things. Spend some time with a survivor a spinal cord or traumatic brain injury. Death isn't the only factor you are dealing with here.
Not trying to stir this pot but we never think it's going to happen to us until it does.
Not trying to stir this pot but we never think it's going to happen to us until it does.
10-23-2016 | 02:24 PM
#179
Member #154
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,008
Likes: 1,088
From: SW CT & Long Island Sound
I'm not part of the vast majority here but I never really followed these shootout events. I've always been enamored with the offshore boating style because of their ability to head out of the harbor to rip it up while everyone else is heading in or staying at the docks, not how fast you can go in smooth water. The Boyne Thunder event this year was one of the best events I've ever read about or was fascinated watching the vids because of the water. AJ's run with his 33' PP was legendary for me, that's what these things are all about but again, I'm the minority anymore. Gimme some 4's and a nice hull and I'm a happy man.
10-23-2016 | 09:23 PM
#180
Gold Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,615
Likes: 1,242
From: Thailand
I agree with Indy ^^^^^^
More fun to be had for an hour or two riding 60-70 mph in a chop offshore with other boats (like many of the sports founders did) than a half a minute blast on your own in a straight line on calm water.
Not taking away from speed runs, the little I have been lucky enough to see are good to watch and generally good spectator viewing positions. The offshore racing does have an inherent problem for spectators but personally, I think it takes more skill and showcases what boats can do in adverse conditions.
Offshore guys come home feeling tired, bruised and belted around but they do come home.
Offshore is where it all started with big powerboats and will always hold the excitement for me.
RR
More fun to be had for an hour or two riding 60-70 mph in a chop offshore with other boats (like many of the sports founders did) than a half a minute blast on your own in a straight line on calm water.
Not taking away from speed runs, the little I have been lucky enough to see are good to watch and generally good spectator viewing positions. The offshore racing does have an inherent problem for spectators but personally, I think it takes more skill and showcases what boats can do in adverse conditions.
Offshore guys come home feeling tired, bruised and belted around but they do come home.
Offshore is where it all started with big powerboats and will always hold the excitement for me.
RR
