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Future Safety Suggestion - Shorten the Shootout Courses

Old 10-16-2016, 01:47 PM
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Ground effects air craft with no control surfaces. Could be rectified, but it would cost serious coin.
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Old 10-16-2016, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Jason Johnson
Let's remember that two of this year's major accidents (Art McMahan at Lake Lanier and Richie Prince at Lake of the Ozarks) happened away from a controlled course. Yes shootouts can be dangerous (yesterday's accident and Mike Fiore's in 2014 prove that), but if you look at how many boats have safely run in the shootouts from Desert Storm to LOTO to Grand Lake and beyond over the years, the track record is pretty good.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Only thing I can think of as a lesson learned is requirement to wear a parachute vest in open cockpit boats over XXX mph. It MIGHT make an accident like this more survivable.
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Old 10-16-2016, 03:07 PM
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Any sport you can get ejected is clearly more dangerous than strapped in sports, like race cars for example. Of course water brings another problem for breathing upside down. But an enclosed reliable cockpit with racing seat belts and hans on helmet, with air system, could be one good thing... parachute, wings on the boat and stuff like that are all good idea, but still dont protect drivers if ever those last idea dont work fast enough or as planned...
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Old 10-16-2016, 05:19 PM
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I believe in drag boat racing boats that have open cockpit are not allowed to run faster than 140 and that is only in 1/4 mile. Also a very large portion of the tunnel hull boats have a wing installed between the sponsons to help limit lift.
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Old 10-16-2016, 06:16 PM
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I was waiting for someone to bring up the current drag boat rules, since that is what these shootouts are - a one mile drag race for offshore boats. They are not top-speed shootouts, if they were, they would have an unlimited run at the radar gun, rather than the mandated 40mph max speed at the start of a measured mile. As Doug has already posted, all of the big mph boats that run these shootouts are capable of higher top speeds than are attained in these mile long runs that start from 40mph. So back to the drag boat rules, as I'm well aware of them, because I also own/drive the quickest open cockpit drag boat in the country - under the current rules - 5.03 @165.4 in 1,000'. The rules for NJBA are that all open cockpit flats and jets cannot exceed 145mph, and can run the full 1,320'. The rules for open cockpit hydros are that we cannot exceed 165mph, and we are limited to 1,000'. If you are in a capsule boat of any kind, there are no speed limits. At the national level, Lucas Oil Drag Boat Racing Association, the pro classes (canopied boats only)- TFH, TAH, TAF and PO (5.40 second index) are limited to 1,000', with no speed limit, while PM (7.00 second index) is still allowed to run the full 1,320' with no speed limit. The open cockpit boats are only allowed to run slower index classes - 10.0 second, 9.0 second, 8.0 second 1,320', and 6.0 second 1,000' - which keeps all the boats well under 160mph. There's no reason the shootouts couldn't adopt similar rules - shorter courses for the faster canopied boats/top speed limits for open cockpit boats. Boat drag racing used to be the dangerous form of boat racing, killing 5-8 guys per year before capsules were mandated. But offshore boats have far surpassed drag boats for fatalities per year, ever since the drag boats mandated capsules and the offshore boats started getting bigger power. Just as the drag boat racing community saved itself (it is currently the strongest form of boat racing still alive, getting close to 200 entrants at the world finals - compare that to Key West!), we need to save offshore shootouts and racing from the inherent danger it has faced for the past 20 years or so. Come on guys, aren't you tired of losing friends and performance boating brothers year after year after year? I'm not saying stricter rules will eliminate fatalities and/or injuries - but it will certainly help! In boat drag racing, we experienced the first fatality since 2009 (John Haas, TFH) when Mike Fry was killed last year in his TAH. We also lost a 6.0 driver in NJBA last Spring, and Scotty Lumbert was critically injured this year in his TFH, but he is still with us. Since the capsule mandate and shortened courses, it is uncommon to have a fatality per year now, compared to 5-8 prior to the new rules. If drag boat racing can improve it's safety record by more than ten-fold by implementing new safety rules, why can't offshore?
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Last edited by Skater30; 10-16-2016 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 10-16-2016, 07:42 PM
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I really think you guys are overthinking this...lets start with the basics.

Cats are fast because they pack air in the tunnel, lifting the boat and decreasing drag.

Cats blow over because of excess lift.

If you design a cat to have effective lift at 90 mph that lift will become exponentially greater at 180 mph leading to instability.

You need to design and build a cat to have effective lift not excessive lift at a desired speed, not a one size fits all approach.

You can add gyroscopes and wings and parachutes all day long.. but cats dont usually blow over at 100, so design a 200 mph cat to have the lift one does at 100 i.f you want to go 200.
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Old 10-16-2016, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by phragle
I really think you guys are overthinking this...lets start with the basics.

Cats are fast because they pack air in the tunnel, lifting the boat and decreasing drag.

Cats blow over because of excess lift.

If you design a cat to have effective lift at 90 mph that lift will become exponentially greater at 180 mph leading to instability.

You need to design and build a cat to have effective lift not excessive lift at a desired speed, not a one size fits all approach.

You can add gyroscopes and wings and parachutes all day long.. but cats dont usually blow over at 100, so design a 200 mph cat to have the lift one does at 100 i.f you want to go 200.
These cats already exist - they're called Mystic. But it doesn't stop guys that own Skaters, MTIs, Outerlimits, etc. from chasing big #s.
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Old 10-16-2016, 08:31 PM
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Maybe, just maybe some of these events need to end.
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Old 10-16-2016, 08:42 PM
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Dale, you bring up some good points and that would be great if a sanctioning body was holding these type of events and implemented the rules. If such events were to be had problem is there probably are very few boats that would meet the safety specs. Unfortunatley we are all our own worst enemy when it comes to going fast and who is the fastest. Whether it is a personal thing or a brand bragging rights, and throw in engine builders and you have a recipe for disaster. Horsepower has also become abundant to the general public. Most of the people that parished this year other than Jim and Garth were in pleasure boats and not doing a speed run. I do think it is time for us to a serious look at we all are doing and the risks we inherent and how it affects people around us.
Jim and Garth will be sorely missed. Let's not let them die in vain and make some good out of our sport in their honor and others too. .

It took Dale Earnhardt getting killed before NASCAR really stepped up its game. I applaud Flight Club for taking the first step.
May the rest in piece.
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Old 10-16-2016, 08:56 PM
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Cats essentially turn into airplanes. Once the pressure builds between the hull and the water it then lifts the sponsons and off it goes like a plane. The shape of the tunnel is like a wing sliced in half. Nascar designed a flap system years ago when cars where spinning backwards then taking flight. The flaps now prevent that. With all the technology we have the tunnel should have flap system or a blow off panel that will release the pressure once the boat reaches a certain angle using some form of altimeter. This would prevent the boat from taking flight and bring it back down quickly. Just a thought. Its terrible all the deaths and injuries this year in the go fast world. My condolences to all.
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