How long will 525's last??
 

Buying a Cigarette w 250 hrs. How long will the 525's and XR drives last w moderate use and not beating the crap out of them? When do they typicall need to be rebuilt and how much does that cost? Thanks!!

At 250 hours you should be looking at having the top end of the 525's refreshed and the headers pressure tested. $4k+ per side for top en refresh and maybe $100 -150 per side for the header pressure check. If they haven't done it recently you should have the drives gone through also.

I would have the engine computers scanned to confirm engine hours and RPM range were these motors lives. That will help see if they ran the dog snart out of these motors and help decide if you need to get into these motors now or later. I agree with Marginmn concerning the CMI headers, you don't want a antifreeze leak in any cylinder. Easy to detect, pull out all spark plugs and look for rust/wetness, you will know if you have for sure. I had a 525 in my magic, love the looks and performance it provided. Hope my insite helps.

Mike P.

The headers are raw water cooled. About 5k to have XRs rebuilt. You are looking at 18K+ to spend on a 250 hour untouched 525. (engines and outdrives). Assuming there are no header leaks - they are known for leaking. Have a survey done prior to purchase.

Thanks! Motors seem to be running fine now. Will have survey done for sure. Had a friend who told me I could get 500 hours on the orginal motors, if I changed the oil frequently and didnt run it really hard all the time. Sounds like that's not true.

Great advice! Have to take that into consideration when I make the offer.

How old are the engines. The weak point seems to be the valve springs, after 7-8 years there can be fatigue. Just my .02

A big deciding factor is the year model of 525's. If they are pre 2007, they will have the old style headers, composite head gaskets and GM head bolts. You can tell which headers they are by looking at them. If the outer tube goes all the way to the flange where they mount to the cylinder heads, then they are the old style that are prone to leaking. if the outer tube stops short of the flange and is welded to the inner tuba bout 3/4" before the flange, then they are either the later style or replacement Gen X headers. Both of these are very dependable. The earlier ones must be watched closely. If not's if, but when they will leak. Sooner or later they will go. Replacement Gen X headers are about $5600 per set. So, plan on 11K if it has the old style headers. If you wait until they leak, there is a good chance you will trash the engine. We have rebuilt countless 525's because of that.

No matter what year engines they are, the valve springs will need to be changed NOW. They are too weak on the seat for the cam in that engine. They can cause numerous other issues if left alone. The engines will need to be pulled, heads removed, etc. You are looking at about $3500 per engine to pull them, tear the heads off, perform a valve job, surface the heads, replace the springs, retainers, locks, seals, head bolts and head gaskets, put them back together and put them back in the boat. We have done probably hundreds of them. If you use the search function, you can find some previous posts that I have made on the 525's. I've made numerous posts over the years detailing exactly what needs to be done to which models.

If you need any help, have any questions, etc. don't hesitate to give us a call. 615-216-7449
Eddie

Your friend is right. I did valve springs at 400 hours. Leakdown was good. Valves looked good going through spark plug holes with remote camera. I probably didn't even need to do the springs. The 525 is a great package.

My 525's were unopened until 480 hours. A leak down test showed head gaskets were going bad between cyclinders 4&6. My engines are year 2003. New gaskets, valve job, and springs, cost about $3,000 per engine doing all the labor myself. Still a strong engine with 500 hours.

Eddie, slight de-rail. My 500efi's just rolled over 600hrs unopened. They were not hard hours, would say 95% of the time at 3400rpm. What should I be looking out for? Should I pull the heads or do a leak down over the winter?

Thanks, Eddie! Is your shop close to the Annapolis area?

Eddie's shop is in TN - however MDG is in Edgewater. Well respected shop.

+1,

Just to clarify. Mine is an '08 vintage with the new style headers and Cometic head gaskets.

You were one of the lucky ones. There is a lot of evidence to support that the top ends of 525's should be refreshed sooner than that interval. My 525's are 2008 as well and I had rocker failures at 200 hours most likely caused by too light spring pressure. That rocker failure cost me the engine because the needle bearings made their way through the lifter valley and below. Tore up the crank and cam.

Me personally, I'd have the top ends done no matter what, just for peace of mind. I think the $3500 Eddie just quoted is well worth it to know that all the weak points are addressed and the motor has been opened up and looked at. Like said above^ a very small valvetrain problem can cause catastrophic results...

At a minimum, I would do the top ends. Perform a leak down first to see what you're working with. I've seen 500's with 450 hours that looked like death and I've seen them with 700 hours that looked fantastic. Didn't seem to have much to do with the way they were ran, which doesn't make a ton of sense. Both were well cared for as well. The 450 hour one was babied and the 700 hour one was flogged. Doesn't seem to matter much. I think upkeep and maintenance has more to do with it. We've seen the same things with 525's. We just did some with 500 hours and they were wore out. We've done others with more time that looked like they were new. I've seen at least 2 dozen that have broken connecting rod bolts.....all with less than 300 hours.

All and all, the 525 is a very good engine. They have continually changed things on them eveyr year. The later ones are far better then the 2003-2005 models. They addressed little issues each year, which ultimately made for a better engine. In 2008, they even upgraded the rod bolts from ARP 8740 bolts to ARP 2000 bolts, as the 8740 bolts have broken.
Eddie

Eddie is in Tennessee but worth the trip.

Padraig

My 500efi's had 345 hours on them when I blew apart a lifter,springs where weak and head gaskets where bad messed up the cam when it went and the roller and arms made it to the oil pan
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on both my 06 formula 400ss and 08 cigarette i had just over 400 hrs on them before doing top ends, all four motors looked great but the valve springs were weak so probably would not have made 500
the formula had a real easy life for the most part the Cig not so much