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-   -   Iconic Marine Group Sells Pro-Line Brand to Former Partner (https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-boating-discussion/343163-iconic-marine-group-sells-pro-line-brand-former-partner.html)

Jason Johnson 12-08-2016 01:00 PM

Iconic Marine Group Sells Pro-Line Brand to Former Partner
 
Some news on the Iconic Marine Group frontóthe Pro-Line Boats brand is splitting off from Baja, Donzi and Fountain.

https://speedonthewater.com/in-the-n...former-partner

Padraig 12-08-2016 02:22 PM

Interesting but maybe not good for Fountain, Donzi, Baja. A previous Speed on the Water article pretty much said that it was Proline keeping the go fast boats afloat.

Padraig

Matt Trulio 12-08-2016 02:32 PM


Originally Posted by Padraig (Post 4507917)
Interesting but maybe not good for Fountain, Donzi, Baja. A pervious Speed on the Water article pretty much said that it was Proline keeping the go fast boats afloat.

Padraig

Yes it did. And at the time that article was published, that informationóbased on sources within then Baja Marine including Johnny Walkerówas to the best of knowledge correct.

This is an interesting development and we'll follow the story.

Padraig 12-08-2016 02:34 PM

See, I do read your stuff.

Not saying that splitting off is a bad thing but it will be interesting. I wish all the brands the best of luck.

Padraig

Matt Trulio 12-08-2016 02:37 PM


Originally Posted by Padraig (Post 4507921)
See, I do read your stuff.

And you know we appreciate it.

mcprodesign 12-08-2016 05:13 PM


Originally Posted by Padraig (Post 4507917)
Interesting but maybe not good for Fountain, Donzi, Baja. A pervious Speed on the Water article pretty much said that it was Proline keeping the go fast boats afloat.

Padraig

Yea but R3 is there now.

PremierPOWER 12-08-2016 06:09 PM

Pretty sure they were only keeping them afloat back before Iconic Marine bought them. Ever since then, they have been pumping out Fountains and Donzis

Padraig 12-08-2016 09:04 PM

Not trying to stir the pot but please define pumping out Fountains and Donzi.

Again I wish them luck. Would not like to see more go fast brands disappear.

Padraig

rak rua 12-08-2016 09:48 PM

I never really thought the more hard core fishing boat only line belonged in the same factory as Donzi/Fountain/Baja but also understood Proline to be good quality and the 'bread 'n butter' stuff for business. Sounds like the sell off will simplify the operation for a bigger push on the remaining three.

Always want the best for these three important brands. I know this is nit-picking but IMO, the word "Iconic" sits better with the three sports boat than Proline. Hope sales boom into 2017!

RR

Jamie77905 12-09-2016 08:33 AM

I was at the factory a couple months ago and was talking to lil Reggie. They had alot of Donzi and Fountains going out the door and in the build stages also.so it seems they had a few on order anyway lol

Tom A. 12-09-2016 09:04 AM

What's concerning to me is all of these Fountains and Donzis I see being built for spec or inventory.
Are any of them actually sold?
Is there a market for a dozen new Classics?
I saw what happened to Donzi in 2008/09 when they floor planned a ton of boats, lost all their dealers, had to eat the boats and then went bankrupt.

Jamie77905 12-09-2016 09:12 AM


Originally Posted by Tom A. (Post 4508129)
What's concerning to me is all of these Fountains and Donzis I see being built for spec or inventory.
Are any of them actually sold?
Is there a market for a dozen new Classics?
I saw what happened to Donzi in 2008/09 when they floor planned a ton of boats, lost all their dealers, had to eat the boats and then went bankrupt.

From what I was told is everything was build to order type deal. So they was being built for a individual not a floor plan.

Padraig 12-09-2016 06:16 PM


Originally Posted by rak rua (Post 4508045)
I never really thought the more hard core fishing boat only line belonged in the same factory as Donzi/Fountain/Baja but also understood Proline to be good quality and the 'bread 'n butter' stuff for business. Sounds like the sell off will simplify the operation for a bigger push on the remaining three.

Always want the best for these three important brands. I know this is nit-picking but IMO, the word "Iconic" sits better with the three sports boat than Proline. Hope sales boom into 2017!

RR

Yes good luck to them. It kills me that I may never see a new Velocity.

Padraig

mcprodesign 12-10-2016 04:40 AM


Originally Posted by Jamie77905 (Post 4508117)
I was at the factory a couple months ago and was talking to lil Reggie. They had alot of Donzi and Fountains going out the door and in the build stages also.so it seems they had a few on order anyway lol

That's cool! With a fountain involved in building Fountains. There will be a demand for the brand again. imo

Jupiter Sunsation 12-10-2016 07:51 AM


Originally Posted by mcprodesign (Post 4508357)
That's cool! With a fountain involved in building Fountains. There will be a demand for the brand again. imo

I think that ship has sailed......It isn't the "who" is involved but rather the product line! Fountains are like VCR's, everyone had one in the 80's and 90's but that doesn't make them relevant in 2016. I like Fountains, I have met Reggie at boat shows/poker runs and the guy is certainly a legend who built more powerboats and won more races than anyone but the fact is the industry has changed. Sunsation has been around as long as Fountain and their bread and butter was sport boats, now they only make center consoles due to the market demand and I think it was reported that Nortech was heading in the same direction.

The buying public isn't interested in buying 200-300K performance boats that are essentially 10-15 year old designs. Short warranties on I/O combined with the hassle of maintenance has made the OB's dominant with offering 5-8 year warranties and less maintenance combined with similar performance capabilities.

I would bet even if they had a crazy promotion for new 42 Fountains with 565's for 250K that they would have a tough time selling a dozen of them.

Interceptor 12-10-2016 08:37 AM


Originally Posted by Jupiter Sunsation (Post 4508372)
I think that ship has sailed......It isn't the "who" is involved but rather the product line! Fountains are like VCR's, everyone had one in the 80's and 90's but that doesn't make them relevant in 2016. I like Fountains, I have met Reggie at boat shows/poker runs and the guy is certainly a legend who built more powerboats and won more races than anyone but the fact is the industry has changed. Sunsation has been around as long as Fountain and their bread and butter was sport boats, now they only make center consoles due to the market demand and I think it was reported that Nortech was heading in the same direction.

The buying public isn't interested in buying 200-300K performance boats that are essentially 10-15 year old designs. Short warranties on I/O combined with the hassle of maintenance has made the OB's dominant with offering 5-8 year warranties and less maintenance combined with similar performance capabilities.

I would bet even if they had a crazy promotion for new 42 Fountains with 565's for 250K that they would have a tough time selling a dozen of them.

Because everyone is buying $300k to$450k center consoles?

Jupiter Sunsation 12-10-2016 08:58 AM


Originally Posted by Interceptor (Post 4508380)
Because everyone is buying $300k to$450k center consoles?

No but those 300-450K CC's are stealing former I/O customers quickly! :evilb:

Look at OSO members as examples:

Bob the builder.....owned dozens of new boats. Hasn't bought an I/O boat since his last 50 NT (guessing 2008) and it is a diesel. 3-4 OB boats have been purchased since.

Bob Christie from NJ (Matt Trulio just wrote an article on his new OB Cigarette). Multiple go fast cats/vees and just ordered a new Cig OB boat.

Bill63 from Michigan that had a 42 Fountain, bought a new 39 NT, then recently took delivery of another 39 NT CC with Mitcher T paint. Fountain is long gone now.


I can't think of a single person that has had OB powered stuff that went back and bought a new I/O powered boat after owning OB's......Ron Szolack doesn't count as he is more of a boat dealer than a boat owner! :D Boat manufacturing is dependent on NEW boat sales. I just think Baja, Fountain, Donzi are selling boat lines that simply aren't in demand (like VCRs or DVD players).

mcprodesign 12-10-2016 09:57 AM


Originally Posted by Jupiter Sunsation (Post 4508385)
No but those 300-450K CC's are stealing former I/O customers quickly! :evilb:

Look at OSO members as examples:

Bob the builder.....owned dozens of new boats. Hasn't bought an I/O boat since his last 50 NT (guessing 2008) and it is a diesel. 3-4 OB boats have been purchased since.

Bob Christie from NJ (Matt Trulio just wrote an article on his new OB Cigarette). Multiple go fast cats/vees and just ordered a new Cig OB boat.

Bill63 from Michigan that had a 42 Fountain, bought a new 39 NT, then recently took delivery of another 39 NT CC with Mitcher T paint. Fountain is long gone now.


I can't think of a single person that has had OB powered stuff that went back and bought a new I/O powered boat after owning OB's......Ron Szolack doesn't count as he is more of a boat dealer than a boat owner! :D Boat manufacturing is dependent on NEW boat sales. I just think Baja, Fountain, Donzi are selling boat lines that simply aren't in demand (like VCRs or DVD players).

Fountain makes a great center console. Great boat for old lazy men or avid fishermen.; I am not going to bash the center console . It looks like a really fun boat to go out on. But you are missing something. Would you rather have a 700 HP Hellcat, Shelby or Vette? Or a cadillac.? I like the cadillacs cause they are rockets nowadays and cool looking. We need to look at the auto industry and what they are building. They are building muscle cars. Not fishing boats.. :)

Jupiter Sunsation 12-10-2016 10:08 AM


Originally Posted by mcprodesign (Post 4508399)
Fountain makes a great center console. Great boat for old lazy men or avid fishermen.; I am not going to bash the center console . It looks like a really fun boat to go out on. But you are missing something. Would you rather have a 700 HP Hellcat, Shelby or Vette? Or a cadillac.? I like the cadillacs cause they are rockets nowadays and cool looking. We need to look at the auto industry and what they are building. They are building muscle cars. Not fishing boats.. :)

The 38 CC from Fountain is an awesome boat, but in reality it was brought out in 2002/2003 so that is soon to be a 15+ year old design. The interiors are certainly more fish than fancy and honestly compare them to a Statement or Nortech or Cigarette and the Fountain isn't going to sell many. Go off the fishing aspect and compare them to a Yellowfin or Contender or SeaVee and once again the Fountain won't sell many. It is a boat with a lost audience.....not nice enough for cruiser buyer, not fishy enough for hard core fisherman buyer.

I get the car analogy but that doesn't compare to boats. Cars can be leased easily and disposed of in less than an hour if you have a Carmax nearby......boats not so much.
Your wife could borrow one of those cars to run errands, a boat not so much. I think your car/boat analogy would be better if you compared CC's to SUV's. They used to be solely purpose driven haulers, now they can be and often are performance haulers!

I recently attended a Cadillac Performance Driving event and I love the new CTS-V but at 100K MSRP there are a lot of alternatives. I got to drive the ATS-V on a road course and it was fast, not sure I would write the check for 75K to buy one.

boatnt 12-10-2016 10:39 AM

do you yourself believe the crap you type?

[QUOTE=Jupiter Sunsation;4508372]I think that ship has sailed......It isn't the "who" is involved but rather the product line! Fountains are like VCR's, everyone had one in the 80's and 90's but that doesn't make them relevant in 2016. I like Fountains, I have met Reggie at boat shows/poker runs and the guy is certainly a legend who built more powerboats and won more races than anyone but the fact is the industry has changed. Sunsation has been around as long as Fountain and their bread and butter was sport boats, now they only make center consoles due to the market demand and I think it was reported that Nortech was heading in the same direction.

The buying public isn't interested in buying 200

willknotsign 12-10-2016 10:50 AM

Center Counsels have defiantly impacted the performance boat segment. But if you want a new Outerlimits or Skater you're looking at over a 12 month lead time. You might get a new Cig in 8 months. Fountain needs to update both their performance boats and center counsels but I believe there is a market for both of them.

Jupiter Sunsation 12-10-2016 11:10 AM


Originally Posted by boatnt (Post 4508414)
do you yourself believe the crap you type?
The buying public isn't interested in buying 200

This thread is about new boat production...... not sure what you were trying to say.

Wildman_grafix 12-10-2016 12:30 PM

I am just waiting for the new SBI CC class to start...............

boatnt 12-10-2016 12:52 PM


Originally Posted by Jupiter Sunsation (Post 4508427)
This thread is about new boat production...... not sure what you were trying to say.

I simply asked if you believe the crap you type?

Interceptor 12-10-2016 02:13 PM


Originally Posted by Wildman_grafix (Post 4508452)
I am just waiting for the new SBI CC class to start...............

Ever see the start of a fishing tournament? More entries and excitement than a SBI race

Jupiter Sunsation 12-10-2016 03:45 PM


Originally Posted by boatnt (Post 4508456)
I simply asked if you believe the crap you type?

Got any links disproving my "crap" theories? :D :daz:

buck35 12-10-2016 04:57 PM


Originally Posted by Interceptor (Post 4508469)
Ever see the start of a fishing tournament? More entries and excitement than a SBI race

And if you can outsmart a fish that makes you what?????
I think most fishermen have to really hate their home lives . I used to go on occasion and sort of enjoyed it , but I see guys out in the river at 430 5 am when its 10 * and pitch dark .... no fun there.
now maybe a guy gets off sitting on his boat with his rod in hand, to each his own.

Sunny32SSR 12-10-2016 08:36 PM


Originally Posted by Jupiter Sunsation (Post 4508403)
The 38 CC from Fountain is an awesome boat, but in reality it was brought out in 2002/2003 so that is soon to be a 15+ year old design. The interiors are certainly more fish than fancy and honestly compare them to a Statement or Nortech or Cigarette and the Fountain isn't going to sell many. Go off the fishing aspect and compare them to a Yellowfin or Contender or SeaVee and once again the Fountain won't sell many. It is a boat with a lost audience.....not nice enough for cruiser buyer, not fishy enough for hard core fisherman buyer.

I get the car analogy but that doesn't compare to boats. Cars can be leased easily and disposed of in less than an hour if you have a Carmax nearby......boats not so much.
Your wife could borrow one of those cars to run errands, a boat not so much. I think your car/boat analogy would be better if you compared CC's to SUV's. They used to be solely purpose driven haulers, now they can be and often are performance haulers!

I recently attended a Cadillac Performance Driving event and I love the new CTS-V but at 100K MSRP there are a lot of alternatives. I got to drive the ATS-V on a road course and it was fast, not sure I would write the check for 75K to buy one.

For as much "knowledge" as you post I'd think you would own a boat or possibly contribute to the market. But you don't. Try being an observer as opposed constantly going out of your way for your voice to be heard.

stimleck 12-10-2016 09:02 PM


Originally Posted by CrownLPX (Post 4508539)
For as much "knowledge" as you post I'd think you would own a boat or possibly contribute to the market. But you don't. Try being an observer as opposed constantly going out of your way for your voice to be heard.

this is a discussion forum, all opinions welcome, who the hell are you to say who qualifies?

jusabum 12-10-2016 10:39 PM


Originally Posted by boatnt (Post 4508456)
I simply asked if you believe the crap you type?

I believe the "crap" he is posting. He is "spot-on" accurate.
And making your voice heard on a forum is what its all about.
If Fountain is to stand a chance in todays market, they better re-tool the entire line and get very creative. And that would be a big waste of money and time. The consumer simply has moved into another direction for sport boats - Exotic Outboard Powered Center Consoles.
Outerlimits and Cigarette are hanging on by a shoestring, and the others (in Hi-Performance Offshore) are only building a boat here and there.
Just look at whats going on - Nortech, MTI, Mystic and Statement seem to be the dominators today.

BUP 12-11-2016 12:20 AM

Just asking and no other intent but trying to understand reading thru some of the posts R 3 works for the company - is he producing sales ? What title does he hold or do for the company cause I have no idea ?

Any of the boats flying out the door sold ? If so to whom ? Anyone up here on OSO bought any of these 3 brands ? - asking because I have not seen or heard of one person as a retail buyer saying or showing a Fountain, Baja or Donzi owning a brand new model in a very very long time ? I know these 3 brands have not sold brand new in the state of Texas for least 6 to 7 years. Not one and still have not currently.

IMO they are being delivered possible to a few dealers as consignments. I could be wrong but really like to know if the retail sales are showing signs of coming back for the Sportboat Vee's

mcprodesign 12-11-2016 06:17 AM

Opinions have everything to do with the forum. Usually there's a lot of BS and forms but sometimes there is actual things that are good to read.

I don't think anybody likes to read the negative rhetoric. I for one would like to be optimistic about fountain powerboats and Reggie fountain the third. Not gonna sit here and bash anybody else but I think that it's very important to be optimistic.

Sticking to your facts of what sales are right now is what you plan to prove that you're right or wrong . who cares. Fact being in 2008 when economy crashed, the boats crash. You see that fountain; there's only 50 of them in the want ads, have you ever seen that before? Only millionaires are buying boats. In millionaires for the most part don't like to do any thing at all except pay people to do their work, for the most part from what I've seen. Middle Class motorheads like to work ot their boats and play around with them . all of us have the boats we could afford right now. Until economy turns around; other people can't buy these types of boats. you're going to see all the the lazy asses buying center consoles and out board motor boat that's all there is to it. For a millionare ... Why not spend twice as much money for something that has some better more expensive parts . Right ? For me i would get the Fountain and just add a couple parts for a fraction of twice as much . And smoke the competition. With a less expensive boat. I would rely on boat knowledge and experience to have fun not money . I already spent all my money on fuel and beer .

Jupiter Sunsation 12-11-2016 08:00 AM


Originally Posted by CrownLPX (Post 4508539)
For as much "knowledge" as you post I'd think you would own a boat or possibly contribute to the market. But you don't. Try being an observer as opposed constantly going out of your way for your voice to be heard.

Your assumption would be wrong as I have owned a boat since 2004, for a few years I had 2. Currently I have a whaler with a 4 stroke. My other boat had 4 motors replaced (under Mercury warranty).......the Whaler has had 3 oil changes and 2 impellers so far in 10 years. So I would say I have seen both sides of the argument (I/O vs. 4 stroke).

If I won the powerball tommorow, I still wouldn't buy a new I/O boat. Maybe a used one or maybe just get a 39 NT with triple OB's. So this is something the industry needs to correct or there will be no I/O industry. Also keep in mind for guys like you that do own the I/O stuff, the less units they sell the more they need to make in margin per unit both in complete units and replacement parts.

Remember this thread: http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...00k-spend.html

If I recall not a single OSO member bought a new I/O boat even with a hypothetical 500K in free money to spend. That thread went 19 pages, I would say there was some good general discussion in there but more importantly it shows the market trends and what is in the buyers head!

Jupiter Sunsation 12-11-2016 08:05 AM


Originally Posted by buck35 (Post 4508493)
And if you can outsmart a fish that makes you what?????
I think most fishermen have to really hate their home lives . I used to go on occasion and sort of enjoyed it , but I see guys out in the river at 430 5 am when its 10 * and pitch dark .... no fun there.
now maybe a guy gets off sitting on his boat with his rod in hand, to each his own.

I have friends that fish, I think "catching fish is better" but I think it is an excuse to go 5 miles offshore and drink. If you happen to catch something then it is a bonus. I put fishing and hunting in the same category. If you are going to eat/process the animal then great have a good time. To go out and just kill something for sport, I'll skip it.

boatnt 12-11-2016 08:25 AM


Originally Posted by Jupiter Sunsation (Post 4508586)
Your assumption would be wrong as I have owned a boat since 2004,!

yea ok,,so what happened to "your" sunsation?

boatnt 12-11-2016 08:36 AM


Originally Posted by jusabum (Post 4508554)
I believe the "crap" he is posting. He is "spot-on" accurate.
And making your voice heard on a forum is what its all about.
If Fountain is to stand a chance in todays market, they better re-tool the entire line and get very creative. And that would be a big waste of money and time. The consumer simply has moved into another direction for sport boats - Exotic Outboard Powered Center Consoles.
Outerlimits and Cigarette are hanging on by a shoestring, and the others (in Hi-Performance Offshore) are only building a boat here and there.
Just look at whats going on - Nortech, MTI, Mystic and Statement seem to be the dominators today.

I really dont know whats going to happen with Fountain,hopefully they make it because a lot of people work there and depend on a pay check every week,but personally I am not concerned about it.

but when you have Jupiter Sunsation make stupid comments like this
" Fountains are like VCR's, everyone had one in the 80's and 90's but that doesn't make them relevant in 2016."
thats when I have to ask him if he believes the crap he is typing,and I bet Jupiter Sunsation would give his left nut to have a Fountain.

Jupiter Sunsation 12-11-2016 08:38 AM


Originally Posted by boatnt (Post 4508590)
yea ok,,so what happened to "your" sunsation?

It is residing in the Galveston area with its new owner Bart. Talked with him a few times since he bought it.

boatnt 12-11-2016 08:42 AM


Originally Posted by Jupiter Sunsation (Post 4508595)
It is residing in the Galveston area with its new owner Bart. Talked with him a few times since he bought it.

Not what I meant,and you know it,

Wildman_grafix 12-11-2016 08:43 AM

I'll take the bait.

So 3 oil changes in 10 years! Now OB's are so super special they don't even need oil changes,,,,,,,, ok
I have said it before we used to have low HP ski boats (351W fords) in the 70's that we would beat the crap out of and run them 1500-2000 hours with just oil and water pump changes. It's not hard if it is low HP and used.

Issue now is the old BBC that merc uses, there is a reason the townboat market has went with newer platforms.

But back to the topic, JS is right the sport boat market is pretty dead. But I don't really think the guys that were buying Baja's, checkmates, and fountains are now buying 400k + triple/quad CC's now.

Maybe a few but as others have said the middle class doesn't have the money anymore. I do think statement has a "entry" level twin CC for 275k?

I wonder when these 3-4 engine CC's start really to hit the used market. Not sure about anyone else but I don't want a high hour 3-4 motor OB any more then a trip I//O.

Jupiter Sunsation 12-11-2016 08:44 AM


Originally Posted by boatnt (Post 4508594)
I really dont know whats going to happen with Fountain,hopefully they make it because a lot of people work there and depend on a pay check every week,but personally I am not concerned about it.

but when you have Jupiter Sunsation make stupid comments like this
" Fountains are like VCR's, everyone had one in the 80's and 90's but that doesn't make them relevant in 2016."
thats when I have to ask him if he believes the crap he is typing,and I bet Jupiter Sunsation would give his left nut to have a Fountain.

Would you not agree that 15 years old+ on a boat design is getting tired out? That Executioner windshield looks like it is retrofitted from the 80's lightnings. The cabin interiors got a nice refresh in 08/09 but the rest of the boat is the same. Have you seen where the market evolved, look in an OL interior for example.

FYI I was looking at the 35 Executioner in 2004 due to its price point but hated the windshield and the paint schemes offered. I thought the 32 MCOB was the best design for what I was going to use the boat for. In S Florida cabins are useless due to the heat and Sunsation offered the MCOB for the first time in the 32. Sure the Fountain was faster but it felt like I was buying an old boat due to the looks. I think the 42/47's with a race fairing look a great, but I don't really love the Lightning windshields either (especially the tall ones from earlier years).


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