Another What Boat Should I Buy Thread
 

I have been lurking here for a while and I have decided to gather some opinions before the new season begins. Currently I (we - 3 of us) own a 86 Wellcraft Elan 197 open bow. We have enjoyed it for the past 3 years but we are definitely limited by our vessel. First we are on Lake Erie in the Cleveland area. I know and respect this lake as I have seen how fast good conditions can turn fairly dangerous. Second we usually have a minimum of 5 people on board when we go out. Having a small vessel loaded down with a shallow hull and open bow just makes for a miserable time (spinal compression and soaked clothes) unless the conditions are perfect.

We would like to upgrade to a late 80's early 90's 25'-27' deep V 8' beam with a single/bravo configuration. I know a 7' beam will give a better ride but anything will be better than what we have and the space is valued more than the ride.

We would like to stay around $12,000 for our first upgrade. We can handle small projects as we have redone all the electrical, interior and maintenance on the Wellcraft. The Wellcraft is an extremely solid boat for this specific model/year. We have been looking but we really are not sure what we should be looking for that will be the best fit.

Potty in the cabin is a must (wives rule they are sick of the towel and bucket)

We would like to be able to have a faster cruise speed and the ability to run in 1'/3' / 2'-4' (pretty much daily conditions) with minimal body shock. Top speed is not as important as we can always add performance upgrades but 55-60knots would be a great start.

I was in your same situation a year ago. Had a 20' Crownline open bow and the bay could be unforgiving at times. We recently ditched the open bow and went with a Powerquest 260. I've only had it out 3 times but those three times were so much nicer in choppy water and it extended the range we can travel in the Chesapeake Bay. It has decent performance by my standards and is more than enough to allow me to get into the performance boat scene. I would imagine us sticking with this for a few years then upgrading to something larger, possibly with twins. We normally have 4 to 5 with us as well.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3..._142631830.jpg

Some of the brands I can think of off the top of my head that would probably fit your criteria are; Baja, Checkmate, Formula, Four Winns, Wellcraft, Pantera or an older Chris Craft. They all made models in that general size range and were in production in the late 80s to early 90s. Fit and finish can and will vary from one to the other but all can be solid boats if taken care of. They should also be fairly common to find in the great lakes area. I am sure others on here can chime in on some other brands that would possibly fit the bill that you are looking for. Hope this helps.

This is good as I have been looking for some of those mentioned. I will make my list below and start searching again. My old boss has a 251 Convincor that was converted to a bravo but I am not sure if it has the shorty lower or not and it needs some work. The whole interior is toast and the floor needs to be replaced. I am concerned with stringer rot and he is firm at $8000 most likely due to sentimental value. I think secret is to find one that was a trailer queen or rack stored and even better if I can find one with a cracked block at a good price. I just don't want to get caught in a loop of paying for surveys.

This week I am going to look at a 87 Scarab 26 if the weather hold out.

253 Convincor
242LS
Liberator 261
Nova has enough versions to be confusing - II III ST Spyder
Scarab 26
Outlaw 25
Pantera 24

For the Formula and Baja picks, I would suggest a 272 and a 25 Outlaw. Sounds like you are hauling around 5 adults and all of those boats get real small real quick in the cockpit.

The 24 Outlaw you have to crawl into the cabin on your hands and knees, I have the same boat just pre-Outlaw and it gets old real quick. The 25 is so much more user friendly, it will cost you a little more to buy, but between the two you would be happier with a 25.

Look into a mid 80's to early 90's Formula 242 LS, 242SS, 272LS or 272 SR1
I went from a 98' wellcraft 2400 open bow with a big block to a 1984 242ls small block and could not believe the difference in ride quality, they are heavy boats with 24 Degree dead rise bottom. It takes more power to go fast, but they handle rough water like a larger boat. The Formula felt much safer when the conditions went to **** as well. The small block 242 will only go 40-45 with more than one person aboard, but it will be bullet proof reliable and easy to maintain. Twin small block 272ls boats are good performers vs. cash outlay. 8000 should get you a decent small block/ Alpha 242ls while 14,000 will buy a 272 with twin small blocks. It also seems that the markets has bottomed out on these boats and solid, clean examples are tougher to find. this makes the buying process harder, but it also means that a solid boat will hold its valve as long as it is maintained properly. Steve

Are you looking for a boat with a pump out head? Or just the GLORIFIED bucket? Checkmates don't have a real toilet and I don't think Baja's did either.

I did also locate a 242LS about 45 minutes away. I will go have a look at that as well.

A Port A Pot under the mattress is fine, pump outs can be a pain.

I would suggest a 242 ss would be the best alternative for your needs. They have the bigger cockpit then the ls. I would say you could go for the 272 but I would only buy that if you have a 2500 or larger to tow it with. The 242 can be towed with a 1500 but is pushing it in my opinion.
If your would like to look into a 242 contact Tom Z. On here it looks like he will be selling his.

I did not see an older 28 Sunsation mentioned. For your needs don't bother with any 24/7 boat. I had a 24 Pantera and the cockpit is tiny. The boat did one thing exceptionally well and that was run hard in the rough but creature comforts for 5 pax was non existent. A lot of great boats mentioned but dont buy anything without a sea trial and survey for water since all the boats mentioned have wood in them. Good luck.

ya good luck finding a decent 28 sunsation for $12k!:lolhit:

I think all the popular ones have been listed. could toss in 27 Pachanga into the mix, although those would likely be more than $12k...and not necessarily the "prettiest" of the bunch. as far as Erie goes in my experience deep V is important but you also need weight, the heavier the better.
I think for your price range a Formula 242LS (or SS if you want more cockpit room) would fit the bill nicely.

Yeah, a $12K 288 Sunny would be a turd. Cockpits aren't the roomiest either between the bolsters and rear bench.

an old Chris Craft Stinger 260 w/twin small blocks is a pretty heavy boat. Chaparral Villain IV with twins is cool and can be found cheap but it's 30'. One of my personal favorites in this size range is the early 90s 26 Nova Spyder. Very hard to find tho!

Ok I'll add my comments

I feel your pain - we too were limited with our initial boat on Lake Michigan - Can't agree more that the Great Lakes are very unforgiving and can turn on a dime.

A couple of years ago we "upgraded" to a 226 Cobalt - open bow. Now this is NOT a boat that one can just announce I'm going to Lake Michigan and go - all the stars have to align to have a great time --< 1-3' waves are an absolute must and a good forecast. The interior of our Cobalt has plenty of room - typically we have 4 in the boat plus all the "stuffs" - usually food and beverage. Ours does not have a head so we have to time stops accordingly-- I bring a plastic bag just in-case!

What I'm trying to say - we all have very limited budgets - but don't think you need to go huge to have a good time. If you have had success in your current boat something just a little larger could easily fit the bill. I know when we looked I also considered a closed bow - but thinking of the amount of space that is given-up (since we would never sleep on the boat) it didn't make a lot of sense for us. Also the "missing head" was not something that we really put much value in since we are typically boating on an smaller inland lake.

There are a LOT of very nice boats out there within your price range - it just takes a lot of patience to find the one that's right for your budget and family.

I looked at a number of boats - and some that were listed as pristine by their owner looked as if a cow gave birth in it - Rot in an older boat is a problem - while it may sound simple to fix - and for the folks that do that - hats off to you - the last thing you want to do is buy a boat and spend most of its' time being fixed. I swear that you tell bunches about the boat just by looking at the condition of bilge and outdrive - if they look like heck - the rest of the boat most likely will follow suite. Once you get serious - you may want to consider a survey -

All the very best

3pointstar

https://akroncanton.craigslist.org/boa/5977497349.html
https://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/boa/5990501454.html

Boats like these would fit the bill.

Gonna agree with 3pointstar on the notion that you do not need a high end boat to have fun. My last boat was a 1988 Baja 240 sport. Basically a 24 Outlaw before they were named that. Had that for about 10 years and many many good memories. It was a solid one owner boat when I purchased it and took care of it the best I could. As some have pointed out, the older boats are prone to rot due to wood used in the construction. Pay attention to the condition of the boat overall. I wish you luck. Have patience and enjoy the looking process. The right one will come along. I was actually looking for about 3 years before I came across my current boat.

Wish you were closer, however I would need at least 16K for the 97 Fastech HP500 now bored to 509. apprx 32 hrs on new motor. 380 hrs on hull.

PM me if you need pictures or other questions.

I spoke with the guy that has that 242ls and I am going to look at it this weekend. A cabin is a must as we wish to take it to the islands on occasion. I definitely would get a survey on any purchase over 4 grand just to be sure. I had a 233ls that I couldn't give away due to all the rot.

Wish I saw this about a week ago!!

I'm partial to a Formula with the age and budget you're looking for. That is my experience with the boats in my area at least. I appreciate all makes, models, and age just as much as any other powerboat enthusiast, however, certain boats will hold up to abuse or neglect better than others which is the biggest factor when look at the age range you are. Good luck with your hunt! Look forward to seeing the results.

I did go look at that 242LS and it actually seemed smaller than my 233LS. The 233LS was rated for 10 or 11 persons the 242 only 7. This is also a concern because sometimes we like to pack in like sardines and head down to the flats (30 min trip) and I want to be in compliance if the coast guard lights me up (happens at least once a season). The 242LS was nice but it had a bad crack in the gel by the trim tabs (which didn't work), the cabin had a terrible musty smell and the starboard bow had what looked to be a 2in hole that was patched and painted over. I would have to see it from the inside to know if it was repaired properly. I decided to pass on that one.

The 233LS seemed to have a longer sundeck also. My guess is the 233LS was measured without a swim platform and the 242LS was measured with the integrated platform, so it is indeed a smaller boat.

I added a Baja Force 265 to the list.

10-11 People in a 23' non-bow rider boat?

I had 11 in my 223LS a couple times, but it was 6 adults and 5 children all of which were < 8 years old. They played in the cuddy most of the time, it definitely wasn't the most comfortable ride but it's only 20 minutes to the local sandbar. :)

Having the boat filled is only a one or two time thing per season but I definitely need the rating in case the Coast Guard stops us. 5 on top and 3 in the bottom can't be any more cramped than a 20-foot bowrider with 8 people and again this is only on rare occasions. Typically it is 2 or 4 plus a 40lb dog.

I think I saw you in the Flats
[ATTACH=CONFIG]565376[/ATTACH]

Holy moly. That's one was to adjust your bridge clearance.

That does look like Burke in the background....SMH, that is definitely an accident waiting to happen. Maybe i'll come up with a new invention and I'll just go straight for a SR311.

Buy the biggest, best boat your budget and tow vehicle can handle.

Sure I can't change your mind?

http://s1006.photobucket.com/user/97...h%20For%20Sale

I wish I could afford that boat, but I have to stick to my priorities. I did go look at another boat, It needs some cosmetic attention but otherwise it is in good shape and the price is right. I do have 1 concern with some fiberglass on the engine mount. Have a look. Is this just de-lamination from age or is this a sign of a more serious problem. This is where the engine stringers meet the fuel tank bulkhead. I can do basic glass work, but I don't want to get in over my head. it definitely doesn't look like it was feathered in good at the factory. The guy is willing to let me drill it to check for rot or have it surveyed. The engine was upgraded to a 502 a couple years back.


http://i67.tinypic.com/2ylljj5.jpg

Second time this week recommending these. Mostly because here in the pacific northwest east coast offshore boats very rare. To appease me and my brother in the 1980's, my Dad picked up one of these in the 1980's.

http://www.powerboatlistings.com/view/4930

A little over your budget. Besides appeasing me and my brothers (big Miami Vice fans at the time). My father wanted good ocean performance. As we crossed the Straight of Georgia, to go to a resort in the San Juan's (Rosario on Orcas) or Some of the other islands in the area.

For the $15k to $20k budget they are a lot of boat for the money. They used molds from Formula. The biggest reason I like and recommend when people are looking for something decent and less expensive. There is always lots of them for sale. So you have a lot of choices.

Second family friends bought the smaller single version the Mirage Trovare.

http://www.powerboatlistings.com/view/43809

another: https://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/boa/5986871617.html

The main reason I like the smaller single. There is always a few for sale on Seattle Craigslist. I work in Ontario during spring and summer. But come back to BC a few times per month during that time. With the family friends my parents bought a cottage on a small local lake in the 1990's. I've thought about picking one up my self for the lake and the odd trip in the ocean here to visit the islands. I don't want to spend a ton of money on something I'll use a few times per year. But I want something that can cross the straight into the Gulf and San Juan Islands.

Best boat for the $5k to $15k range for this is the Mirage.

My older boating buddy talked me out of the Force 265. I really liked the size of that boat, but it was too much of a project and I didn't want to waste money on the survey for a boat that wont be in the water this year. I found another 265 in southern Ohio and I am going to look at that one.

I really do not like the fake windows. I prefer real glass or smoked acrylic.