2000 Cobalt 252 w supercharged 502 mag and B3 drive
 

Hello,

I'm a longtime lurker on this site and genuinely appreciate all of the helpful intel. I am very much interested in a boat for sale that is 2000 miles away from my home in Atlanta. Is anyone on the board familiar with this boat? I've had numerous conversations with both the seller and the local dealer but not quite comfortable buying site unseen. Any intel is very much appreciated. Seller claims 85mph turning 30 pitch props. Drive shower but no other upgrades to drive. I am thinking at risk?


http://www.boattrader.com/listing/20...-252-102637783

Hi Jomiddour- I going to preface ALL my comments with I'm NOT A MECHANIC but we down own a Cobalt 226 and I've done a fair amount of readying about Cobalt boats, Merc Engines etc.

1. I would check out the Cobalt web site and see if this model was ever offered with a Supercharger- The 502 I know was offered in many boats and from what I gather is a very solid platform/engine. However, adding a blower to it is not something that can be taken lightly unless it was done right. While the add says that it was done at a dealer - who was the dealer? - I know a number of "so called" dealers that I wouldn't let them pump gas in my car let alone add this plumbing to a high performance type engine
2. 300+ hours on an engine is just a number if it was maintained. Unless the seller has got receipts who knows
3. I know the Bravo 3 has hp and speed limitations. I know 600 HP exceeds the maximum Hp that is to be applied. Also from a pure design perspective - the Bravo really maxes out at around 65 mph. We have a 7.4mpi Bravo 3 Thru Hull Exhaust - and we hit a wall at 64 on GPS- with the wind, against it, cold water, cold air. just can't get anything more out of it- now that maybe a function of our hp but from what I've read- it is pretty consistent.
4. I wouldn't hesitate getting another Cobalt - yes they are expensive - ours is a 2000 and I kid you not - I have yet to tighten one screw or bolt that became loose. Everything works and the finish (I do take very good care of it) is almost perfect. We have a little north of 500 hours on it- all fresh water.

I wish you all the best and please let us know the outcome.


3pointstar

Boat is overpriced. I will say the side-mount Whipple install looks very clean. Would be a fun sleeper runabout but NFW that boat runs 85 MPH. Clay Washington on this site had a 22' Crownline with a Whipple'd 502 and it ran in the 70's but also ate the top end out of the Bravo III drive. Another member had a Sea Ray deck boat with a 540 or something along those lines and had problems with cavitation burns on the leading edges of his Bravo III props. Examples of things to consider if you pull the trigger. Don't expect 100's of hours of trouble-free boating with this setup. You will have to be willing to deal with mechanical gremlins, setup issues, and failures down the road.

650HP on a standard B3 is a bit much, the good part is it doesn't weight a lot, so if the throttles are babied the drive will hold for a while. If it had a XR upper this would be a plus.

I'd pass on that boat. 39K for a 17 yr. old 25' boat? Do you want to boat or spend your time and money wrenching on it? Lastly, If you want to go FAST, buy a more capable HULL.

I'd pass just because the boat is in Elephant Butte. I couldn't even look at the ad I was laughing so hard. Who the heck buys something out of Elephant Butte?... "Hey Frank, what's up with the new boat?" "Well Larry, let me tell ya, I got a helluva deal, basically stole it out of Elephant Butte!"
That broker/seller needs to memorize an adjacent zip code... Better to be Elephant Butte adjacent than square in the middle of Elephant Butte.

http://fatkidatcamp.com/wp-content/u...te-Pirates.jpg

The Butte Pirates lmao!

That boat will be for sale for a long time at that price.

1) Bravo III will not do 85. Probably pushing it at 70's
2) Bravo III will not like that torque so figure a drive rebuild if you buy $3k
3) The gimbal is probably a standard Bravo unit which will need service with that HP, best to put an HP unit on $2K
4) Cable steering at those speeds is down right dangerous. Hydraulic steering upgrade $4k
5) How many hours on the power? How many since Blower upgrade? Figure a rebuild into your budget $10-$15k

So now to put a nice ""Reliable"" package in the water for the season you are looking at:

$38k Boat
$3k drive rebuild
$2k gimbal upgrade
$4k Steering Upgrade
$10-$15 Engine rebuild
-------------------------------
$58k Total Investment to do it right.

If you mind is set on a performance open bow I would consider a 25-27 Baja Islander. Better hull design for speed upgrades. I'm love Cobalt build quality and styling just might not be the right boat if your looking for performance in the 70's.

39 k way up there especially if he took a 24 k cobalt and just slapped a whipple on it.
Guy over here has a advantage deck with a properly built roots 496 gen 4 and a imco drive and he isnt getting the 40k he wants for it

Somthing to consider is the elevation above sea level in Elephant Butte. I think it is fairly high and the blower is compensating for the elevation?

Here's a clean open bow family truckster that's designed to run at speeds above 80mph. Seating for 8, ski tow, 691HP=not too shabby.
http://www.powerboatlistings.com/view/47440

Guys thank you for the feedback. The steering is concerning. At what speed is external hydraulic necessary? I agree price seems steep. It is an original owner boat and he spent time with the cobalt factory engineers tuning both the SC and selecting props with the Mercury rep. Internals upgraded and HD drive coupling installed. Owner swears it will do 80's at sea level with 30P props on it and pushes 75 at Elephant Butte on 28P props. Is this just impossible? Boat seems extremely clean and I don't mind paying a slight premium for something that has all of the gremlins sorted. SC has been on it since 2004. Could the drive be replaced with an xr?

I'm really looking for a family friendly boat in that price range (open bow or MCOB) that will do 70+ and can comfortably cruise at 45mph. Any recommendations? Love the idea of a sleeper.
I've also looked at several Sunsation 288 MCOB's. I really like the more classic lines and more subtle graphics (ideally lack entirely) To each their own. Thoughts and advise welcome. Thank you!

Above 60 it starts, and 70 you better have it, IMO

Have him take a vid holding a GPS with it doing that speed

Sure, just takes another 12 to 14K

Driving a 70mph plus single engine boat of this size is much smoother and safer with a good air entrapment hull design IMHO. The wetted surface on the single engine V's when trimmed for top speed can get rather small causing some undesirable handling characteristics. I've owned both (single engine V 26 ft and single engine air entrapment 26 ft) 70 plus mph boats and like the latter much better at speeds over 70. Now with that said driving back to the condo after the LOTO Shootout event on a Saturday I'd take the V at 45mph all day long.

Check out my avatar. 5 years newer, 80mph, XR drive, hydraulic steering, seating for as many as you want to cram in it. Not much more $$ than what you are looking at.

Yeah, and no pine tree air fresheners required to get the Elephant Butte smell out of the interior!

(Couldn't resist, my inner child pretty much runs the place)

I have had some fountain skanks in there though. Might need to be aired out a little

Hard pass way over priced. That's like trying to make a corsica a Camaro. Can you do it yes. But why would you? At the end of the day you still have a corsica not a sports car and you wasted a ton of $$ if it was 20 or 25k it would be different.

I'm not sure why he went to the trouble of adding a Whipple looking for speed and decided to keep the Bravo III. That boat is not so big and heavy that it would be a pig stock with with a Bravo I, let alone after adding the Whipple. Worked with Cobalt engineers tuning the Whipple? Really? I bet Dustin Whipple would like to hear this story. You wouldn't need a Mercury rep to select props. They only made so many pitches in the Bravo III prop sets so you would pic props based on your target Max RPM. I wouldn't be dazzled by such stories. If there was so much involvement by experts then explain the absence of hydraulic steering.

Not to mention the guys name but there is a guy here which in several discussions has had boats above 80 mph on a B3.

I'm just saying if you are looking for speed, the Bravo I is the way to go. Especially on a boat such as this Cobalt that is going to have the drive deep in the water. You can't add a shorty lower to a Bravo III. They don't exist. A Bravo I gives you options on how deep the prop is in the water without having to fill the transom and raise everything up. Even a standard Bravo I lower should be faster and you have way more options in terms of props.

To the OP, this boat appears to be very clean. I believe it is priced to try to recoup the cost of the upgrades and in the used market, you have to accept that you cannot pass along certain sunk costs to the next guy. IMO, this boat's value is no more than any other clean, used Cobalt of the same year, engine/drive combo, and options. The add-on's for the most part probably hurt the boat a bit in terms of shrinking the pool of prospective buyers. If it can be bought as such, and you are willing to accept the probably added costs/headaches down the road of associated with the Whipple'd mill, then I say go for it if you want the boat. The setup will need to be modified for the change in elevation.

There is no doubt that the boat in question is both beautiful and very well cared for. With a bone stock 502, that's probably a mid to upper 50 MPH hull. And if it was bone stock - and priced to reflect it - it would be a very nice boat for somebody willing to pay for a well cared for boat. But adding a supercharger to a family boat adds a bit to the top speed, pushes the hull into instability territory, and actually hurts the resale value.

Most experienced high performance boaters here know that the best way to go faster is to start with a hull designed and built to handle that kind of speed, then power and rig it accordingly. That absolutely includes hydraulic steering if the boat is to run over 70 MPH. And it doesn't include a drive that was designed for family boats - like the Bravo III. As nice as that boat is, I'd stay away from it. You - or somebody else - is going to pay a fortune for something that will cause nothing but headaches - or injury- somewhere down the road. Just my 2 cents.

Not so sure about that...LOL! Lots of threads on here about people putting ridiculous power in a turd of a hull.

Where's that 100 MPH Chaparral build thread when you need it?! :lolhit:

Well, I did say most high performance boaters.

Notice how the 100 MPH Chaparral kind of faded (or crashed) into oblivion? And there was also the guy with the black Four Winns hell bent to drop a big blower motor in it. Of course he's probably pushing up daisies about now ...

You need to read my "Building a Sleeper Thread " on here.

The short story: 252 BR Formula with Bravo 3 454 EFI 52 MPH

Added 540EFI 720 HP Ground up performance engine, XR Drive, Dual Ram Hyd.Steering, Bblade 25P Labbed Mirage Plus 3 blade Prop, and the best Ive seen so far is 75, and 76 down wind, with me and half load of fuel GPS
Bravo 3 X dimension is set VERY low. even with the XR drive, we are looking at a 2" shorty lower this summer for some test hits.
Tried a Bravo 1 28P Prop and above 65mph, it would start lifting the stern and got crazy out of shape.
No way he is anywhere close to 85, and if he is bull****ing about that, he's full of **** about the rest of it

If you look at my thread, its all documented. Dyno Sheets, which you will never see on here, video. I'm, not a keyboard cowboy like most on here
I've actually done it.......................and Love it !

Congratulations! But I do have a couple of questions:

1) How much do you figure you've spent so far?

2) How much do you think the boat is really worth if you went to sell it? (Be realistic here!)

Who gives a crap............. . No one ever gets out of their boat what they put into it.......
Anyone who says different is full of it

You mod your boat for the same reason you mod your Car, truck or Harley................To have something different from the other guy which I do

I'm not hiding anything on here.................read the thread if your that interested. Its all layed out.... every dollar and where it went... The frustrations, the setbacks, the over budget, the loss of a boating season.......
Was it worth it?......................... Every time I blow past one of those factory go fast V hulls, with the fat old rich dude, with the fake big tit blond. Its PRICELESS !!!

To the OP, I want to clarify something in case you are unaware on the outdrive. If you buy the boat, you do not have to replace the entire drive if you want to test out a Bravo I lower vs. a Bravo III lower. You only need the lower unit as the upper is identical between the two drives. So when I say a shorty Bravo III doesn't exist I'm referring to the lower. Meaning you cannot raise the drive depth and retain the dual props simply by swapping to a shorty lower like you can with a Bravo I lower. On these runabout types of hulls I've found the same to be true that Papasmurf has in that you do not want to run any kind of stern lifting prop as the back end gets flighty on them. Bow lifting 3 blades seem to do the best at stock drive heights. That might change with a shorty lower.

Well said........... I didn't get into, because I didn't want to cause confusion, but that's what I did. Exchanged the Bravo 3 lower with an XR Lower to achieve higher speeds and durability. The 1.25" prop shaft also helps save those high dollar labbed props from ending up on the bottom of the lake.....

Props: Mirage Plus (3 Blade) has given the best top speed, so far. Hydromotive QIV (4 Blade) has given the best all around performance and a top speed of 74 Drive X dimension is still at Bravo 3 level, which is very low.

The intercooled whipple is a great addition to a 502 mag, but i just cant picture it adding 25mph plus ,
To a heavy b3 drive open bow cruiser . Even with a labcoat wearing professor of props involved