28' AT, 28' Pantera, 28' Apache, 30' Superboat, 27' Kryptonite, 30' Cig, 27' Activato
10-15-2002, 12:45 PM
#51
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Re: This is interesting...
Originally posted by Misty
... All I gotta say is, the boat manufacturers love people like you… People that buy on brand name alone.
It’s your money.
Misty
... All I gotta say is, the boat manufacturers love people like you… People that buy on brand name alone.
It’s your money.
Misty
The day I buy a boat is also the day I start thinking about how much will I get for it when I sell it.
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Look Fast *** Sold Sold Sold *** ... F2 Cigarette Top Gun in OSO Classifieds
Look Fast *** Sold Sold Sold *** ... F2 Cigarette Top Gun in OSO Classifieds
10-15-2002, 01:04 PM
#52
JIM H
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misty thanks for the offer,i would love to be educated on the boat construction methods
when and where you would like to do this?
maybe it could be a oso boat building clinic.
jim h
when and where you would like to do this?
maybe it could be a oso boat building clinic.
jim h
10-15-2002, 04:39 PM
#53
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Misty,
Yes, I do research. In fact, I am doing it right now. I am trying to make this thread a positive one. Please, no negatives. The thread was misinterpreted a few insertions ago. Perhaps I misrepresented it. Either way, here it goes again. Going from left to right represents slow to fast. Going from high to low represents overall building quality. lease look below the chart for more explanation:
Quality
|-------Apache
|---------Pantera
|--------------------Cigarette
|
|------------------------------------------Progression
|-------------Sonic-----Active Thunder-Phantom
|-------------Baja------------------------Kryptonite
|----------------------------------------Superboat
|-----------------------------------------------Activator
------------------------------------------------------------------------Speed
|
Above you will see that ( and this is a big assumption) I am suggesting that if all the boats above were of similar size and of similar power that the Apache would be on the slow end of the spectrum, but thta the Progression and others like Activator would be on the fast side. Likewise, on the quality scale which is vertical, Apache would be on the high end, whereas some other boats like Superboat would probably fare on the more "affordable" side. I am not bashing any boats here. I am simply saying that if you want a good heavy, quality boat like an Apache or Pantera, so be it. If you want a very light, faster, and a bit more affordable boat like an Activator, great. Again, this chart represents my PERCEPTIONs, and everyone has different perceptions. I am always changing my perceptions as I get to know different boats and so forth, from reading or demonstrations and such. PLEASE, let's share our perceptions with each other. Each of us should have slightly ( at the least) different perceptions. In other words, let's suppose that Pantera's are really a lot faster than my perception, then it is either because I don't know enough or because the manufacturer has not marketed the boat effectively to suggest the intended attribute of the boat. I encourage each of us to make their own map like mine and we can compare. A perceptual map is not one that is right or wrong. It reflects a person's understanding of a product in relation to other products. I would like to know where everyone else's perceptions lie. Cool?
Yes, I do research. In fact, I am doing it right now. I am trying to make this thread a positive one. Please, no negatives. The thread was misinterpreted a few insertions ago. Perhaps I misrepresented it. Either way, here it goes again. Going from left to right represents slow to fast. Going from high to low represents overall building quality. lease look below the chart for more explanation:
Quality
|-------Apache
|---------Pantera
|--------------------Cigarette
|
|------------------------------------------Progression
|-------------Sonic-----Active Thunder-Phantom
|-------------Baja------------------------Kryptonite
|----------------------------------------Superboat
|-----------------------------------------------Activator
------------------------------------------------------------------------Speed
|
Above you will see that ( and this is a big assumption) I am suggesting that if all the boats above were of similar size and of similar power that the Apache would be on the slow end of the spectrum, but thta the Progression and others like Activator would be on the fast side. Likewise, on the quality scale which is vertical, Apache would be on the high end, whereas some other boats like Superboat would probably fare on the more "affordable" side. I am not bashing any boats here. I am simply saying that if you want a good heavy, quality boat like an Apache or Pantera, so be it. If you want a very light, faster, and a bit more affordable boat like an Activator, great. Again, this chart represents my PERCEPTIONs, and everyone has different perceptions. I am always changing my perceptions as I get to know different boats and so forth, from reading or demonstrations and such. PLEASE, let's share our perceptions with each other. Each of us should have slightly ( at the least) different perceptions. In other words, let's suppose that Pantera's are really a lot faster than my perception, then it is either because I don't know enough or because the manufacturer has not marketed the boat effectively to suggest the intended attribute of the boat. I encourage each of us to make their own map like mine and we can compare. A perceptual map is not one that is right or wrong. It reflects a person's understanding of a product in relation to other products. I would like to know where everyone else's perceptions lie. Cool?
10-15-2002, 06:17 PM
#55
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I will be honest here , I dont know about all boats , just the ones I spoke about . Most of the thing I said were based on the info I know and what the builders told me .I dont know alot about panteras except what I was told from the builder ( heavy and slow ) . Superboats I do know alot about because alot of my friends have them and I see how they are built . For me to put all of them in quality order would not be fair .
P.S Jim H I thought you were done here ?
P.S Jim H I thought you were done here ?
10-15-2002, 06:25 PM
#56
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Wayne,
Fair enough. I have been in a few Panteras and to their factory. I have been to the Cigarette factory and was given a tour by Neil Hernandez. I have been in 2 Active Thunders. I have not been in a Phantom but have had several conversations with Will Smith, the owner. I have been in 3 Progressions and have been to the Progression factory and was given a detailed overview of the vacuum bagging process by Kevin Laughlin. I have spoken several times to Mark at Activator. I actually drove Kirk Rogers' boat (Kryptonite). I have owned 2 Superboats and know John well enough. I have been in a SOnic also. I have sat in a Warlock, but don't know a whole lot about them. And I can't say that I have been in a Baja. I think that covers most, if not all, of the boats I mentioned in the chart. I have met Bob Saccenti and Eric Froberg before a few times. Does it make me a pro? Not even close. In my search for answers, I am just trying to get closer. By the way, can't someone try to make a perceptual map for themself so we can compare?
Fair enough. I have been in a few Panteras and to their factory. I have been to the Cigarette factory and was given a tour by Neil Hernandez. I have been in 2 Active Thunders. I have not been in a Phantom but have had several conversations with Will Smith, the owner. I have been in 3 Progressions and have been to the Progression factory and was given a detailed overview of the vacuum bagging process by Kevin Laughlin. I have spoken several times to Mark at Activator. I actually drove Kirk Rogers' boat (Kryptonite). I have owned 2 Superboats and know John well enough. I have been in a SOnic also. I have sat in a Warlock, but don't know a whole lot about them. And I can't say that I have been in a Baja. I think that covers most, if not all, of the boats I mentioned in the chart. I have met Bob Saccenti and Eric Froberg before a few times. Does it make me a pro? Not even close. In my search for answers, I am just trying to get closer. By the way, can't someone try to make a perceptual map for themself so we can compare?
10-15-2002, 08:36 PM
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Misty,
Your knowledge is excellent and yes accurate information is available to all who choose to do the proper research . I will not debate various building techniques because cost is a greater factor than most care to admit .
I did not see a reply on this thread from fastedy, but if you were refering to fastedy's 30y2k superboat , the rubrail is in fact secured with stainless steel sheetmetal screws , however the topdeck is "glued and screwed" . Prior to installing the rubrail ,the topdeck is through bolted with stainless bolts with flatwashers and nyloc anti-vibration nuts . This does produce an extremely durable seam . If you truly wanted to see photographic evidence of this I would be glad to supply interior pics of a similiar 30y2k.Foam core , by the way is NOT used for shear strength .
(You talk the talk, what the hell is that all about ? doesnt sound like any of the structural engineers I went to school with ! )
Jim Capie
Capie Design & Development
Your knowledge is excellent and yes accurate information is available to all who choose to do the proper research . I will not debate various building techniques because cost is a greater factor than most care to admit .
I did not see a reply on this thread from fastedy, but if you were refering to fastedy's 30y2k superboat , the rubrail is in fact secured with stainless steel sheetmetal screws , however the topdeck is "glued and screwed" . Prior to installing the rubrail ,the topdeck is through bolted with stainless bolts with flatwashers and nyloc anti-vibration nuts . This does produce an extremely durable seam . If you truly wanted to see photographic evidence of this I would be glad to supply interior pics of a similiar 30y2k.Foam core , by the way is NOT used for shear strength .
(You talk the talk, what the hell is that all about ? doesnt sound like any of the structural engineers I went to school with ! )
Jim Capie
Capie Design & Development
10-16-2002, 09:56 AM
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rtaylor-
As an owner of a 28 AT (twin 350 MagMPI), I may be biased, but I did look carefully at Pantera, Cig, Sonic, Apache, and Powerplay (all in the 28' length-we had decided to go with a custom builder)
Pantera, Apache, and Powerplay had BBC's, and I don't feel the balance is as good or flight as level in this length of boat with that much weight behind you! Great build quality in those mfg's, though.
The Cig with SBC's is a great boat, but you can't buy a late model one. Had I found a later year 31 Bullet that was up to my standards when I was looking, I would have bought it. Nobody gets rid of those things!
As far as Sonic goes, I like the looks of their boats- they are very similar to the AT (or vice versa
) but don't classify them as a true custom boat. And as far as the Baja goes, IMHO it is not in the same class as the others on your list, and certainly not a true custom builder.
I have no experience so can't/won't comment on Activator, Kryptonite, Superboat, or Phantom, but from what I have read and seen, they certainly look like nice boats. They also do quite well in racing.
I have found the build quality of the AT to be right there with those at the top of your list. There isn't a piece of wood in it anywhere (Mantex throughout), and mine weighs in a little under 5000 pounds. They are very large for a 28', with a nice cabin as well. You won't find any of the other boats in your list even close on freeboard. No dealers means you deal straight with the factory. Mine goes low 70's in the salt.
Just FYI, the 28 AT will be redesigned in early 2003 with a DDC bottom. Speeds are expected to be in the low 80's with the twin 350 Mags. Add accordingly for the 6.2, or better yet, Scorps!
Jim
As an owner of a 28 AT (twin 350 MagMPI), I may be biased, but I did look carefully at Pantera, Cig, Sonic, Apache, and Powerplay (all in the 28' length-we had decided to go with a custom builder)
Pantera, Apache, and Powerplay had BBC's, and I don't feel the balance is as good or flight as level in this length of boat with that much weight behind you! Great build quality in those mfg's, though.
The Cig with SBC's is a great boat, but you can't buy a late model one. Had I found a later year 31 Bullet that was up to my standards when I was looking, I would have bought it. Nobody gets rid of those things!
As far as Sonic goes, I like the looks of their boats- they are very similar to the AT (or vice versa
) but don't classify them as a true custom boat. And as far as the Baja goes, IMHO it is not in the same class as the others on your list, and certainly not a true custom builder. I have no experience so can't/won't comment on Activator, Kryptonite, Superboat, or Phantom, but from what I have read and seen, they certainly look like nice boats. They also do quite well in racing.
I have found the build quality of the AT to be right there with those at the top of your list. There isn't a piece of wood in it anywhere (Mantex throughout), and mine weighs in a little under 5000 pounds. They are very large for a 28', with a nice cabin as well. You won't find any of the other boats in your list even close on freeboard. No dealers means you deal straight with the factory. Mine goes low 70's in the salt.
Just FYI, the 28 AT will be redesigned in early 2003 with a DDC bottom. Speeds are expected to be in the low 80's with the twin 350 Mags. Add accordingly for the 6.2, or better yet, Scorps!
Jim
