Real Open Offshore Racing....Can it ever happen again?
01-12-2018, 10:40 AM
#51
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iTrader: (2)
buying the boat is a small part of racing, the exspense of running an offshore race team is another issue. You have tons of down travel time, tow vehicles support trailer an array of extra parts and propellers. Then you have membership fees equipment fees and entrance fees travel money for the team hotels meals and entertainment. When you add that all up at the end of the year an average small team will spend 60 to $70,000. And if you have a desire to run the world championships in Key West add another 15 to that.
Actually it's more then that or so i've been told. There was someone in the past either on Facebook or on here I can't really remember but he broke it down to a total rounded monthly cost to maintain a full race team something in the Unlimited class. If I can find it i'll edit into this post. But the initial breakdown totaled a whopping $50k a month expense for some teams.
01-12-2018, 01:18 PM
#52
I guess that's why there aren't that many small teams running SBI......Tow vehicles? Support trailers? When we take the boat on the far away races, we take 1 crew cab dually and 1 boat on a trailer. Don't need scooters and golf carts and all the other crap that has nothing to do with racing. Entertainment? Give me a break. We go to race, not run a bar tab.
Last edited by Xtremeracing; 01-12-2018 at 01:43 PM.
01-12-2018, 01:46 PM
#53
That is the main reason why SBI and Race World are kind of not promoting P class there is an organization for them to run and it would be best if they all ran together and it give s them a bigger them a bigger boat count.
01-14-2018, 10:24 AM
#56
"If you build it, they will come"
We have done something similar here in Panama City on a different level, but in theory it could work with real boats running offshore. We have an astronomical amount of rental wave runners typically Yamaha VX110's the plain Jane 110hp skis all over the place. Several of us will race them in the off tourist season in the lagoon/bay, it started with 3-4 of us and it grew to a dozen or so. We went from 100% stock ski's with anywhere from 100-900hrs on them to a stage 1 class. So you can run a 100% bone stock ski or a stage one she that has exhaust and intake mods and piggy back fuel computers. This winter we even have a rental pontoon group that runs 40hp outboards that have taken interest, talk about running rub rail to rub rail. The ski races get pretty competitive.
You can't look at it from a financial perspective, you have to do it for the love of the sport and most of all for fun. This will sound outrageous but there are a lot of various bow rider type boats out there in the $3k-$5k range that can be modified to have a throttle man and driver setup and keep the costs super low. Engine mods are easy and cheap, a 2 barrel to 4 barrel adapter plate can't be more than $50, throw a 650cfm on a 4.3 liter and ring its neck. Obviously these are not real offshore boats, but IMO you have to start somewhere affordable so your neighbor can afford to be involved. Not everyone can afford to beat up an old Fountain hull or even buy one to get started. The great part for us with the skis is the larger rental companies sell them off after 2yrs as rentals for less than $2k, its affordable and its a blast to run them. 2yrs ago we were freezing our butts off, many of us now have 5mm wet suits and we continue to grow with the little sport we've started to keep us on the water in the winter.
I would def be interested in getting involved as long as it could stay affordable because lets face it, when you do it for the love of doing it... you are your own sponsor :P
We have done something similar here in Panama City on a different level, but in theory it could work with real boats running offshore. We have an astronomical amount of rental wave runners typically Yamaha VX110's the plain Jane 110hp skis all over the place. Several of us will race them in the off tourist season in the lagoon/bay, it started with 3-4 of us and it grew to a dozen or so. We went from 100% stock ski's with anywhere from 100-900hrs on them to a stage 1 class. So you can run a 100% bone stock ski or a stage one she that has exhaust and intake mods and piggy back fuel computers. This winter we even have a rental pontoon group that runs 40hp outboards that have taken interest, talk about running rub rail to rub rail. The ski races get pretty competitive.
You can't look at it from a financial perspective, you have to do it for the love of the sport and most of all for fun. This will sound outrageous but there are a lot of various bow rider type boats out there in the $3k-$5k range that can be modified to have a throttle man and driver setup and keep the costs super low. Engine mods are easy and cheap, a 2 barrel to 4 barrel adapter plate can't be more than $50, throw a 650cfm on a 4.3 liter and ring its neck. Obviously these are not real offshore boats, but IMO you have to start somewhere affordable so your neighbor can afford to be involved. Not everyone can afford to beat up an old Fountain hull or even buy one to get started. The great part for us with the skis is the larger rental companies sell them off after 2yrs as rentals for less than $2k, its affordable and its a blast to run them. 2yrs ago we were freezing our butts off, many of us now have 5mm wet suits and we continue to grow with the little sport we've started to keep us on the water in the winter.
I would def be interested in getting involved as long as it could stay affordable because lets face it, when you do it for the love of doing it... you are your own sponsor :P
My recipe was going to be a small pylon style race course, road course style with both right and left turns. This keeps it reasonably close to the shoreline for both safety and logistics reasons for other that my not race but want to spectate or support the racers. It also places some focus a boats tuning and handling ability as opposed to out rite speed.
-The first class I would start out with would be 20ft and under single engine, 350CI and under, Alpha drive or stock drive for engine combination.
-Aluminum prop
-Single stock carb for application, or 600cfm or smaller aftermarket carb, or stock EFI
-stock cast iron exhaust manifolds
- pump fuel requirement, no high compression engines.
Any and all mods to the hull, interior, steering, seating and rigging are allowed and encouraged.
-$50 entrance fee per boat, per race.
Winner of the Feature race takes all the cash.
Now here is the great part!!
This class would have a $2000 engine only claim rule.This would work as follows:
If a certain boat wins 2 races back or 3 races at any time during a 8 race series the engine in that boat (long block, Intake to oil pan, no Acc.) Can be purchased by anyone for the sum of $2000 within 1 hour of the completion of the race. A racer could only have his engine claimed once during the 8 race season.
This allows the boats themselves to be made safer, more rigid, better handling, more comfortable as the racers see fit, but it prevents someone from coming in with a big dollar built motor and winning up uncontested. If this does happen they had better be ok with having it purchased from them for no more then $2000. This amount is just enough to buy a brand new GM 350 stock crate engine to replace the claimed motor but not so much that the money could buy another "hot engine". In this format the racer being claimed gets money for a brand new engine and the racer doing the claiming gets a race winning motor for $2000 and can now sell his current motor, keep it as a spare or even sell it to the owner of the boat that now needs a motor.
I think this would keep the racing somewhat equal while also introducing the entertainment factor of having the same motor in multuple boats if anyone thinks that is the reason a particular boat was winning.
What do you guys think?? Im a little concerned about legal issues if someone got hurt, or otherwise I would have started this process already. Does anyone have any ideas to get around having a sanctioning body with huge insurance costs??
01-15-2018, 08:09 AM
#58
Registered
I have been disusing the idea of putting something like this together with my long time friend James, (UnlimitedJD on here) The location where we boat here in Massachusetts is perfect for it (Narragansett bay, Mount Hope Bay and the Taunton River) The water can range from glass calm to steady 3-5s on a rougher day depending where in the bay you are. there are plenty of locations for viewing from the shore and also dockside bars and marinas that could be used as a nice after race hangout.
My recipe was going to be a small pylon style race course, road course style with both right and left turns. This keeps it reasonably close to the shoreline for both safety and logistics reasons for other that my not race but want to spectate or support the racers. It also places some focus a boats tuning and handling ability as opposed to out rite speed.
-The first class I would start out with would be 20ft and under single engine, 350CI and under, Alpha drive or stock drive for engine combination.
-Aluminum prop
-Single stock carb for application, or 600cfm or smaller aftermarket carb, or stock EFI
-stock cast iron exhaust manifolds
- pump fuel requirement, no high compression engines.
Any and all mods to the hull, interior, steering, seating and rigging are allowed and encouraged.
-$50 entrance fee per boat, per race.
Winner of the Feature race takes all the cash.
Now here is the great part!!
This class would have a $2000 engine only claim rule.This would work as follows:
If a certain boat wins 2 races back or 3 races at any time during a 8 race series the engine in that boat (long block, Intake to oil pan, no Acc.) Can be purchased by anyone for the sum of $2000 within 1 hour of the completion of the race. A racer could only have his engine claimed once during the 8 race season.
This allows the boats themselves to be made safer, more rigid, better handling, more comfortable as the racers see fit, but it prevents someone from coming in with a big dollar built motor and winning up uncontested. If this does happen they had better be ok with having it purchased from them for no more then $2000. This amount is just enough to buy a brand new GM 350 stock crate engine to replace the claimed motor but not so much that the money could buy another "hot engine". In this format the racer being claimed gets money for a brand new engine and the racer doing the claiming gets a race winning motor for $2000 and can now sell his current motor, keep it as a spare or even sell it to the owner of the boat that now needs a motor.
I think this would keep the racing somewhat equal while also introducing the entertainment factor of having the same motor in multuple boats if anyone thinks that is the reason a particular boat was winning.
What do you guys think?? Im a little concerned about legal issues if someone got hurt, or otherwise I would have started this process already. Does anyone have any ideas to get around having a sanctioning body with huge insurance costs??
My recipe was going to be a small pylon style race course, road course style with both right and left turns. This keeps it reasonably close to the shoreline for both safety and logistics reasons for other that my not race but want to spectate or support the racers. It also places some focus a boats tuning and handling ability as opposed to out rite speed.
-The first class I would start out with would be 20ft and under single engine, 350CI and under, Alpha drive or stock drive for engine combination.
-Aluminum prop
-Single stock carb for application, or 600cfm or smaller aftermarket carb, or stock EFI
-stock cast iron exhaust manifolds
- pump fuel requirement, no high compression engines.
Any and all mods to the hull, interior, steering, seating and rigging are allowed and encouraged.
-$50 entrance fee per boat, per race.
Winner of the Feature race takes all the cash.
Now here is the great part!!
This class would have a $2000 engine only claim rule.This would work as follows:
If a certain boat wins 2 races back or 3 races at any time during a 8 race series the engine in that boat (long block, Intake to oil pan, no Acc.) Can be purchased by anyone for the sum of $2000 within 1 hour of the completion of the race. A racer could only have his engine claimed once during the 8 race season.
This allows the boats themselves to be made safer, more rigid, better handling, more comfortable as the racers see fit, but it prevents someone from coming in with a big dollar built motor and winning up uncontested. If this does happen they had better be ok with having it purchased from them for no more then $2000. This amount is just enough to buy a brand new GM 350 stock crate engine to replace the claimed motor but not so much that the money could buy another "hot engine". In this format the racer being claimed gets money for a brand new engine and the racer doing the claiming gets a race winning motor for $2000 and can now sell his current motor, keep it as a spare or even sell it to the owner of the boat that now needs a motor.
I think this would keep the racing somewhat equal while also introducing the entertainment factor of having the same motor in multuple boats if anyone thinks that is the reason a particular boat was winning.
What do you guys think?? Im a little concerned about legal issues if someone got hurt, or otherwise I would have started this process already. Does anyone have any ideas to get around having a sanctioning body with huge insurance costs??
01-15-2018, 03:56 PM
#59
Registered
Thread Starter
I have been disusing the idea of putting something like this together with my long time friend James, (UnlimitedJD on here) The location where we boat here in Massachusetts is perfect for it (Narragansett bay, Mount Hope Bay and the Taunton River) The water can range from glass calm to steady 3-5s on a rougher day depending where in the bay you are. there are plenty of locations for viewing from the shore and also dockside bars and marinas that could be used as a nice after race hangout.
My recipe was going to be a small pylon style race course, road course style with both right and left turns. This keeps it reasonably close to the shoreline for both safety and logistics reasons for other that my not race but want to spectate or support the racers. It also places some focus a boats tuning and handling ability as opposed to out rite speed.
-The first class I would start out with would be 20ft and under single engine, 350CI and under, Alpha drive or stock drive for engine combination.
-Aluminum prop
-Single stock carb for application, or 600cfm or smaller aftermarket carb, or stock EFI
-stock cast iron exhaust manifolds
- pump fuel requirement, no high compression engines.
Any and all mods to the hull, interior, steering, seating and rigging are allowed and encouraged.
-$50 entrance fee per boat, per race.
Winner of the Feature race takes all the cash.
Now here is the great part!!
This class would have a $2000 engine only claim rule.This would work as follows:
If a certain boat wins 2 races back or 3 races at any time during a 8 race series the engine in that boat (long block, Intake to oil pan, no Acc.) Can be purchased by anyone for the sum of $2000 within 1 hour of the completion of the race. A racer could only have his engine claimed once during the 8 race season.
This allows the boats themselves to be made safer, more rigid, better handling, more comfortable as the racers see fit, but it prevents someone from coming in with a big dollar built motor and winning up uncontested. If this does happen they had better be ok with having it purchased from them for no more then $2000. This amount is just enough to buy a brand new GM 350 stock crate engine to replace the claimed motor but not so much that the money could buy another "hot engine". In this format the racer being claimed gets money for a brand new engine and the racer doing the claiming gets a race winning motor for $2000 and can now sell his current motor, keep it as a spare or even sell it to the owner of the boat that now needs a motor.
I think this would keep the racing somewhat equal while also introducing the entertainment factor of having the same motor in multuple boats if anyone thinks that is the reason a particular boat was winning.
What do you guys think?? Im a little concerned about legal issues if someone got hurt, or otherwise I would have started this process already. Does anyone have any ideas to get around having a sanctioning body with huge insurance costs??
My recipe was going to be a small pylon style race course, road course style with both right and left turns. This keeps it reasonably close to the shoreline for both safety and logistics reasons for other that my not race but want to spectate or support the racers. It also places some focus a boats tuning and handling ability as opposed to out rite speed.
-The first class I would start out with would be 20ft and under single engine, 350CI and under, Alpha drive or stock drive for engine combination.
-Aluminum prop
-Single stock carb for application, or 600cfm or smaller aftermarket carb, or stock EFI
-stock cast iron exhaust manifolds
- pump fuel requirement, no high compression engines.
Any and all mods to the hull, interior, steering, seating and rigging are allowed and encouraged.
-$50 entrance fee per boat, per race.
Winner of the Feature race takes all the cash.
Now here is the great part!!
This class would have a $2000 engine only claim rule.This would work as follows:
If a certain boat wins 2 races back or 3 races at any time during a 8 race series the engine in that boat (long block, Intake to oil pan, no Acc.) Can be purchased by anyone for the sum of $2000 within 1 hour of the completion of the race. A racer could only have his engine claimed once during the 8 race season.
This allows the boats themselves to be made safer, more rigid, better handling, more comfortable as the racers see fit, but it prevents someone from coming in with a big dollar built motor and winning up uncontested. If this does happen they had better be ok with having it purchased from them for no more then $2000. This amount is just enough to buy a brand new GM 350 stock crate engine to replace the claimed motor but not so much that the money could buy another "hot engine". In this format the racer being claimed gets money for a brand new engine and the racer doing the claiming gets a race winning motor for $2000 and can now sell his current motor, keep it as a spare or even sell it to the owner of the boat that now needs a motor.
I think this would keep the racing somewhat equal while also introducing the entertainment factor of having the same motor in multuple boats if anyone thinks that is the reason a particular boat was winning.
What do you guys think?? Im a little concerned about legal issues if someone got hurt, or otherwise I would have started this process already. Does anyone have any ideas to get around having a sanctioning body with huge insurance costs??
It started up in Narragansett Bay off Gaspee Point and went out to Block Island and back into the bay to finish at the old Rocky Point docks. Rocky Point was an amusement park, it has all been torn down since.
No entry fee and someone even donated a trophy. There was a lot of NE races going on back then, Plymouth, Gloucester, Around Cape Cod race, and we had a lot of APBA Production class boats that wanted another race somewhere.
So the owners got together and put the "Cruise" on. We had a bunch of Cigarette 28's and Magnum 27's with twin 280's a Bertram 28 and a bunch of Novas and a couple of Banana Boats.....20 boats in all.
When we arrived back at Rocky Point, the police boats were waiting for us. They said that we were "Racing" without a permit for a race.
We said we were "Cruising" and that we just wore the helmets and life-jackets to be safe. In the end they could not do anything and we had no incidents or boats break down during our "Cruise"
Today, I guess you could call it a "Poker Run" to see how many show up and are interested. From that turnout, see what boats come and what classes you can shape up and get a group to work to put together an organization.
04-18-2018, 09:34 AM
#60
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Platinum MemberJoin Date: Apr 2008
Location: Florida-Winter, Connecticut-Summer
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I am all for it, bring back the good 'ole days of real offshore racing! Going fast was not the main ingredient, finishing the race was. Today boats basically go around in an oval course without any navigational skills required.
