5200 no grip after 7 months ???
 

So i had a kplane cable leak (posted in my rebuild thread)
This i had to put here so hopefully i would get more answers ideas and advice.
Boat has 7 hours after rebuild, once the cable leak was found i figured better safe than sorry, so i checked the steering brackets bolts and they were packed full of 5200 and are dry but while taking them out, the brackets would have fallen on the ground if i let them.
They were installed in may 2018 and boat didnt go in the water till october.

As a precaution all the transom holes were taped off and i poured 635 epoxy in them and let them soak for 10 minutes, made a mess but it was piece of mind, now this.
Stuck/stumped, which way do i go ? How do i reinstall ? Why didnt the 5200 hold
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i would be suspect of some kind of surface contamination on the stainless parts that were mounted, something petroleum based or ??? It doesn't take much just the slightest film because the surface is pretty fine and probably polished. What did you clean them with before mounting?

That looks like surface prep problem. I think the recommended cleaning prep after all loose dirt and debris is removed, is to wipe clean with mix of isopropyl alcohol? I know you can find on the 3M site. Hope this helps!

Wow fast thanks dave !
Machine/grinder finish on back from factory, and oily when received, nitrile gloves, acetone parts and transom.
5200 schlooped all over squeezed out of everywhere, torqued to 30 pounds. Maybe i just wasnt diligent enough
See every product stuck to the concrete just not the boat.
Holes have nice sleeve of 5200 all the way thru, guessing those will have to be cleaned out and totally redone as well.
Any special steps i should follow and what do you think 5200 or lifecaulk like was mentioned in the fiberglass thread from the other day.
Other thing is all the 5200, pipe sealant, anti sieze compounds etc are stored in fridge to prolong life
Have both 5200 and lifecaulk brand new unopened.
Whatever it takes, i'll do, appreciate it, thank you
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Thank you,
I thought acetone was the end all, didnt know it had to cleaned as well, what cleans it off ?
Yes, schlooped on and put in place right away,
then tell the help "hold this and dont let it fall off or the bolts slide out while i go inside and put the nuts on"
Help was used only on the kplanes and steering mounts since the nuts and bolts cant both be reached,
but it ultimately does fall back on me, and how or where i failed.

Rikuy didn't see you mentioned the alchohol, thank you.
Ran up up to publix and grabbed some rubbing alcohol and a canoli, all leveled out now.
Will let the stuff get some air before reinstall, may pull the grinder across the back to get some better tooth on it as well.
Thanks all.

I believe those adhesives are activated by moisture NOT air. They will cure under water.

Acetone dries with no residue. I use it to prep everything as my last step. Never had a problem.

I would scuff that bracket up to let the 5200 stick. Personally I would use 4200.

+2 on 4200

I could see product being bad, however the internal backing plates were prepped same time as the brackets, and they are polished on both sides.
The only 5200 on those is what got pushed thru the holes and got squeezed out during the torque sequence.
They are not budging and will have to stay put during hole clean out and re install.

Prep/residue is looking more like the culprit, the polished stuff is on good, but the cast/ground surface did not adhere,
It doesnt sound right but the polished does clean real good, maybe the pourus side of the brackets sucked oil up.

4200 is a good option, it was used several places as a sealant on items that can or might be moved since its labeled as removable.
I'll put on anything by any method that will save or prolong the boats life.

Thanks guys

some info

1. cleaning and spotless prep work for both sides of what is being sealed / bonded together -- many in the industry use a cleaner of some sort then finish off using Denature Alcohol and lint free rags.

2. How old was the tube of 3M - I seen some old dates on the shelf from hardware stores and from Home Depot.

3. apply the sealant in a good amount but ONLY semi snug down the bolts / nuts or screws. Let it almost dry but not 100 percent - then tighten all hardware 100 percent. Doing this procedure prevents the sealant from squeezing completely out. IMO this looks like what has happened to you also not using enough sealant applied and the little that was there got squeezed to the outside edge from tightening down before the sealant even set up..

4.Next thru the industry there has been reports of 3 M sealants having issues. Not the mass but it was reported there is / was issues with the product not holding up. This could be the case here as well.

I have installed many keel guards - the best results was from proper prep work and cleaning with a strong cleaner then followed up with denature Alcohol. The keel guards use a peel and stick backing inwhich is 3 M adhesive

IMHO you were lucky that it didn't bond . Like I said in the other thread that's what your bolts are supposed to be for , not the goop . I've seen 5200 bond two pieces of glass together so as has been already suggested , maybe it was defective product
Again , another example of a use for 5200 that I personally would not do.

it has a shelf life in an unopen tube or cartridge. If laid down bead of the 5200 on the ground and let it sit there in the sun - it cures. There is tubes called fast cure 4200 and 5200 - it cures regardless in the air.

stored for 2 months opened but duct taped the applicator tip after some usage for that day - just pulled applicator tip off and the 5200 sealant formed the exact shape of the long applicator, The sealant coming out of the cartridge is hard as a rock and I can not even break it off by hand. The whole tube is solid as a rock. Again stored inside at room temp for the past 2 months inwhich I opened it and used some at that timeframe. With that said air cures this stuff rock solid even sealed with duck tape at the tip of the applicator. The white portion 3.5 inches long at the top of the cartridge is the SEALANT fully cured 100 percent and not able to pull it apart. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...2161e3192f.jpg

Quite true . I've never had 5200 not cure on me , whether in dry air OR underwater . The best use I've found for the fast cure 5200 is for repairing the cracks in a heavy plastic (insert in the ground type ) fish pond belonging to an old widow nearby who I help out now and then !

edit to add ; BUP , I not only tape the cartridge up like you do but I find that keeping them in the fridge seems to slow them down as well . It works quite well on the smaller toothpaste type tubes too but especially if you make sure that the threads are good and clean before you screw the cap back on. I tend to keep all of my unfinished tubes of sealers (and crazy glues) in the fridge now .

Oh , and another thing . 5200 isn't advised for use around swimming pool fixtures as it doesn't like chlorinated water .

I was putting forth this info because water is not the only cure for it. Water just can speed up the curing time but its only where the water comes in contact with it. Water should not see it when 2 pieces are bonded together. Like I said IMO the sealant was squeezed out from not letting it set up and not enough sealant used inbetween the pieces. The install should be lightly snugging the pieces together and allowing set up time for the sealant then tighten the pieces together 100 percent. Or he has or had a bad tube of sealant from the start . Prob end of story

Just to follow up: After seeing the back of the brackets, I would knock the entire surface down with a big grit sanding wheel or at least scratch up the entire surface with big grit paper until the surface stains and casting surfaces were scratched up really well, or gone (I would completely remove the rust-colored stain because it transferred into the 5200 on the hull). Clean with soap and water, let dry, then clean with alcohol and let the alcohol flash off. Reapply with a fresh tube (always check expiration date on adhesives) of selected sealant in the manner you did the first time (looked great!) and you should be good to go. 5200 is a MOISTURE-cure (not water, needs water vapor to cross-link the adhesive). The adhesive will use moisture available in the atmosphere to complete reaction, working from surface in, so let it set up as recommended (if in colder climate or out of sunlight, extend time. Reaction likes heat to finish). If not using rest of tube in 1-3 days max, throw out what's left. It won't be any good after the tube is opened to atmosphere. Acetone is used to dissolve uncured polyurethane components prior to reaction, so I would not use acetone on any parts/surfaces that will have a polyurethane adhesive applied to it (even though it flashes off quickly and cleanly). Hope this helps!

Bup, same thing with the caulk gun tubes of 5200 4200 and life caulk, open it and later on its done.
Ground the brackets, drilled/cleaned and re epoxied the holes for the steering brackets, they werent leaking but i had to be sure.
Opened a brand new tube of life caulk, gooped (alot) the cable in front and behind the grommet, worked it into the grommet, gooped the grommet, grommet hole thingy, clip and retaining nut, then more on the cable right at the front of the grommet before install, by the time i was done the tube started drying.
The back of the boat looks like something from the craigslist gold thread

Leaving cables disconnected for at least a week, plus the brackets have to go on and they have to cure a week as well.
Dont know , but ​​​​​​​If the kplane cables leak again, they'll be gone
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Florida has both, air and moisture, temp was 80 today, ill let the stuff sit before installing say 10 minutes ?
Boat wont go in the water for minimum 7 days from day of gooping.

Does the life caulk have to sit like the 5200 does before install ?

4200 & 5200 are polyurethane adhesive. They are moisture cured. When cured they retain some elasticity.

When placeing between metal and fiberglas it isn't going to get the moisture necessary to cure except around the edges.

The thicker the layer the more moisture needed. I would paint a thin layer to both surfaces and allow exposure to air. The more humid the better.

After some reading, the steering brackets will get reinstalled with life caulk.
Only concern is if i install snug and leave to cure so it forms more of a gasket then tighten,
is if the bolt turns accidentally will the seal break and leak.

Now i see how the outboard is so appealing

I swear I read some where to store 4200 / 5200 in the freezer and then take it out 12 hours before use?.?.?. Can't think of where I read it maybe The Hull Truth forums? I have a new unopend tube of 5200 in the freezer now just in case I need it some day.

I read that too somewhere but it was only after opening the tube so it would not harden completely and be still usable. I have some in the freezer I have done this with and it seems to work but I put the small cap back on it tightly and store in Ziplock baggie just in case it decides to leak. Hopefully it doesn't change the chemical composition any if frozen for months lol.

Besides what has already been said (i.e. don't use 5200 for this, and surface prep) the main thing is to not tighten the bolts until after it dries. It's pretty clear the film was very thin which is why the stuff didn't work. If you put it on and tighten right away then it all gets squashed out. do a very light bolt job, let it set, then bolt it down all the way the next day