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Tabs on lil boats questions
Before y’all make fun of me I’ve had a whole bunch of boats 24 foot and less that had tabs on them. I’m now looking at my 25 Checkmate Convincor project. It came with old-school Insta trims which I like. They have solid tab/plates and rams look stout. They had a clamp on position indicator that are currently inoperable but could be replaced and I like they’re thinking. Could also adapt alternate rams to those plates. My issues and questions pertain to, do I install bulletproof K planes so I don’t have to worry about them or Bennett sport tabs that are easier to tune to a small boat? I had a 24 foot Sonic with Bennett tabs in Lake Erie and broke one of the Rams in rough water at speed. That lake with that small of boat you need tabs to stay on plane and make it home which means a long ass, ****ty ride back with a broken tab. I upgraded to their sport tabs which kept everything the same but added a second ram per tab. Loved them but broke one of them also in similar conditions. Even though they are redundant a ram failure opens the hydraulic system and drains the fluid so none of the other three tabs work. On my second 24 Sonic it came with K planes with the MerCruiser trim pump for operation. I hated the damn things! Don’t remember size but smallest available and the boat was impossible to dial with those tabs. If you just tapped a button the motor/pump was so fast it would free wheel past the sweet spot and you were constantly back-and-forth attempting to get correct attitude. Got screamed at by the Mrs, multiple times for laying a round keel boat on its side! Any suggestions from real world experience would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys. Gary |
So your real objection with the k-planes are the response along with how easy/quickly the nose can get buried. Causing a scary moment...
i was was going to put them on my scout but Two Stroked and you talked me out of it due to them already trimmed up could still contact the water flowing off the back of the boat and cause drag.... I think if I do put tabs on the scout I will go with duel ram bennits/lenco. For your size boat I would go with them and and indicators... for me I just like burley set ups that won’t break... He k if the ones I have don’t sell, I may put them on. Just gotta GoPro of the back and see how the water is beaking off the back |
Just a heads up...if you're looking for bennets I will be listing a set very soon...like tomorrow lol...just haven't taken pics yet is the only reason I haven't yet...dual ram both tabs, pumps, electric gauges, switches the works...haven't come up with a price yet but it'll be reasonable
Back to the thread....I had those above on my 28 heat and they were just a bit small...I had to bury them to get any noticeable difference so I went with 280 k planes...that's all the experience I have lol...this was my first boat I've ever played with the tabs on others I haven't touched them |
I’m interested. PM me when your ready. Bonz, the over correction was more the side to side effect at speed. With my Sonics being around Keel there was no real pad to balance it on so you’re constantly sawing at the wheel, playing with trim, etc. Anything above 50 it’s was very sensitive to wave direction, wind etc. I would tap the button on one side to try and level the boat and it would roll it on the chine on the opposite side and scare the hell out of the Mrs. The ram failures were due to me running a small boat where I needed a big boat. Both sonics were huge fun in a 2 to 3 foot quartering sea. WFO, with the motors trimmed up to fly the bow and the tabs down 20 or 30% to keep it from skying and it would just run across the top of the waves. Orgasmic ride! Twice a Bennett plastic ram cried uncle under those conditions. My wife is to the point though that I’d pay dearly for doing that w/her in the boat 😉
Originally Posted by BBYSTWY
(Post 4683649)
Just a heads up...if you're looking for bennets I will be listing a set very soon...like tomorrow lol...just haven't taken pics yet is the only reason I haven't yet...dual ram both tabs, pumps, electric gauges, switches the works...haven't come up with a price yet but it'll be reasonable
Back to the thread....I had those above on my 28 heat and they were just a bit small...I had to bury them to get any noticeable difference so I went with 280 k planes...that's all the experience I have lol...this was my first boat I've ever played with the tabs on others I haven't touched them |
Other than ram failures, I loved the Bennets on the first Sonic. Very easy to set/adjust. We had a 22’ Formula and a 21’ Celebrity at Erie for a while and I installed them on both. I have an onboard video of bringing the Formula home through 5’s w/zero issue. Key is, w/tabs you can stay on plane at 10 mph. W/o, required 20 mph which meant coming home off plane. Side to side compensation for load was a huge benifit also. I built mechanicals for my 19’ Glastron Carlson and 21’ Laser. Put then up to fly the bow, down to ski or go to Erie 😉
Originally Posted by J-Bonz
(Post 4683648)
So your real objection with the k-planes are the response along with how easy/quickly the nose can get buried. Causing a scary moment...
i was was going to put them on my scout but Two Stroked and you talked me out of it due to them already trimmed up could still contact the water flowing off the back of the boat and cause drag.... I think if I do put tabs on the scout I will go with duel ram bennits/lenco. For your size boat I would go with them and and indicators... for me I just like burley set ups that won’t break... He k if the ones I have don’t sell, I may put them on. Just gotta GoPro of the back and see how the water is beaking off the back |
I mounted 280s horizontal on my 22 Avanti and boat in Erie, I love them ! Mounted horizontal makes them much more progressive and controlable
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Great input. Always wondered the difference in effect in that mounting method. Thx for posting.
Originally Posted by phragle
(Post 4683663)
I mounted 280s horizontal on my 22 Avanti and boat in Erie, I love them ! Mounted horizontal makes them much more progressive and controlable
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Originally Posted by Twin O/B Sonic
(Post 4683674)
Great input. Always wondered the difference in effect in that mounting method. Thx for posting. Also running 3o wt motor oil in the tabs as opposed to tranny fluid will slow them down a touch too... |
I have set off my boat in you're interested. I can take pics and post.
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I have 150S K Planes on my 23’ v with 300xs. Bottom is 21degree with a small pad. I have never had trouble with them. This is my first boat with tabs so I cannot compare the performance of other tabs. I have never noticed overly quick corrections. They will lay the boat on its side if you just hit the wrong one especially coming on play. They work real good keeping the bow down, even in rough water running a little positive trim. I like them and would have K Planes on any other boat that I bought. |
Originally Posted by phragle
(Post 4683663)
I mounted 280s horizontal on my 22 Avanti and boat in Erie, I love them ! Mounted horizontal makes them much more progressive and controlable
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Did the Sonics have much setback?
I know you built a decent length setback bracket for the Checkmate. With my 24’ Hull and 16” (or 18”?) of setback, my K-planes don’t cause any ill handling, and they’re friggin surfboards. Just wondering if the extra offset from your bracket will make the K-planes the better choice. |
Here you go.... ( X-Dim is now 2.25" higher than in pik)
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...be99043077.jpg |
Has anyone tried interceptors in place of tabs.
https://www.boatingmag.com/better-solution-for-trim-control |
Mounted correctly, tabs will not negatively impact speed or handling. Mounted incorrectly though, you'll have issues. As has already been said, where you mount them is critical. If your boat runs pretty low in the water at the stern at full throttle, you should mount them as far apart as possible to get the maximum side to side purchase and stability. (I had to mount mine over the first lifting strake since my outside chines are well out of the water at speed.) Then you have to mount the hinge point at least 1/4" above the planning bottom to avoid drag. Next, you need to look at the full up position to make sure you're not dragging tab even when full up. Lastly, you need to make sure you have enough travel to get some decent down tab with all of the previous stuff addressed. As for parallel with the bottom vs horizontal, horizontal seems to work better and have less drag.
As for what size tab to use, I know of several 22 Progression owners who have 280 K Planes on their boats and like them. (They are heavy though.) I have 12" x 12" Boat Levelers on mine and love them. I'm not a huge fan of the plastic cylinders, but they've been on the boat (run hard on Lake Ontario) for 23 years now with zero failures. If I were to do it again today, I'd go with Lenco electric tabs due to their ease of installation and speed of operation. They do make a high performance model too. |
Lenco's are nice from a setup point, but thru bolt the upper mounts instead of using the screws if you plan of running enthusiastically. I previously had Lencos and found them not to be compatible with my, ummm driving style.......
and now after thinking about it, I may end up relocating my tabs lower and closer, if I end up with them completely out of the water at speed. The unforseen problems of going from 300 hp to 650........ It did handle great at 60, 80 may be a different story. |
20” on first one, 24” on second. W/the floatation box on the bracket you have little choice in mounting location. Two identical boats other than tabs. First one w/Bennett’s handled great. Second one I never got used to. I like them mounted wide so they’re dry at speed. Shouldnt need them at WFO.
Originally Posted by Speedracer29
(Post 4683711)
Did the Sonics have much setback?
I know you built a decent length setback bracket for the Checkmate. With my 24’ Hull and 16” (or 18”?) of setback, my K-planes don’t cause any ill handling, and they’re friggin surfboards. Just wondering if the extra offset from your bracket will make the K-planes the better choice. |
Which ones?
Originally Posted by frickstyle
(Post 4683681)
I have set off my boat in you're interested. I can take pics and post.
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I had 280's mounted parallel with the hull on my 24 Superboat. The worked great. They did everything they were supposed to do when deployed and no effect on speed when fully retracted.
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Gary, I had the 150's (shortest) K-planes on my Pantera, and they worked fine for me. Being a 7' boat, you needed the tabs, because weight shift definitely affected the ride.
I'm wondering which pumps you had on your set of K-planes...the plastic reservoir style will run quicker and they will "over run" a bit. The metal reservoir style is the slower of the two pumps and I believe those are the correct pumps to run with the K-planes. |
I have 280 K-Planes on my Python They are mounted not parallel like Robbie's but in between that and even with the bottom of the Boat.
The Mercruiser Trim Pump is Parker Oildyne 108 Series Power Unit and can be ordered with 4 different pump capacities . I never could figure out which size pump that Mercury chose for drives or Tabs. On my boat I ordered 2 of the .16CC/Rev Pumps for the K.Planes .https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...a1546ac111.jpg |
Originally Posted by Twin O/B Sonic
(Post 4683733)
Which ones? |
Livorsi 1050s on my 25’ Baja. Work great, keep the bow glued in some pretty rough stuff. Obviously when they’re full down they will cause bow steer. As long as you use some sense they work great for this size boat.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...3fa10053a.jpeg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...eb50bb643.jpeg |
Thanks and gorgeous hardware!
Originally Posted by IGetWet
(Post 4683886)
Livorsi 1050s on my 25’ Baja. Work great, keep the bow glued in some pretty rough stuff. Obviously when they’re full down they will cause bow steer. As long as you use some sense they work great for this size boat.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...3fa10053a.jpeg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...eb50bb643.jpeg |
Thx but those would be wayyyy too big for mine.
Originally Posted by frickstyle
(Post 4683880)
honestly I don't know. Whatever came stock on a 1990s Top Gun, what size are those, 280 k-planes?
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Ill have to go back and find pixs of the old boat but Id think they were the 150's and dont remember the pump but may have that in pixs too.
Were yours mounted horizontal or even w/bottom?? Im wondering if that was part of my issue. Maybe too long too and why it was 10 MPH slower than the old/first Sonic. I know everyones trying to help but Ive had a bunch of boats w/tabs and several fast ones and the Sonic w/the K-planes was the only one to fk w/me and it wasnt me. Hell maybe the relays were sticking??? You could be running 45 MPH in/at a perfect attitude and tap one button, as quickly/lightly as possible and it would lay the boat on the side! Mine were the s models w/the tapers to clear the drives.https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...a36a89696f.jpg Here is the space I have to work with on the Convincor.
Originally Posted by ziemer
(Post 4683788)
Gary, I had the 150's (shortest) K-planes on my Pantera, and they worked fine for me. Being a 7' boat, you needed the tabs, because weight shift definitely affected the ride.
I'm wondering which pumps you had on your set of K-planes...the plastic reservoir style will run quicker and they will "over run" a bit. The metal reservoir style is the slower of the two pumps and I believe those are the correct pumps to run with the K-planes. |
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...6392cb76a3.jpg
They look like 280's to me. Theyre what came on the boat. 150's clearly would have been a different story. I remember thinking about cutting them down. Interesting............... |
Those are definitely 280's. The 150's stop essentially where the rams attach to the plates. Mine were mounted in the same plane as the hull.
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Originally Posted by Twin O/B Sonic
(Post 4683904)
Thx but those would be wayyyy too big for mine.
Never experienced the "over run" you mentioned, loved how quick and responsive they were. Looking for a similar set for the 288 |
Originally Posted by Twin O/B Sonic
(Post 4683904)
Thx but those would be wayyyy too big for mine.
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Originally Posted by Twin O/B Sonic
(Post 4683907)
Ill have to go back and find pixs of the old boat but Id think they were the 150's and dont remember the pump but may have that in pixs too.
Were yours mounted horizontal or even w/bottom?? Im wondering if that was part of my issue. Maybe too long too and why it was 10 MPH slower than the old/first Sonic. I know everyones trying to help but Ive had a bunch of boats w/tabs and several fast ones and the Sonic w/the K-planes was the only one to fk w/me and it wasnt me. Hell maybe the relays were sticking??? You could be running 45 MPH in/at a perfect attitude and tap one button, as quickly/lightly as possible and it would lay the boat on the side! Mine were the s models w/the tapers to clear the drives.https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...a36a89696f.jpg Here is the space I have to work with on the Convincor. |
Originally Posted by IGetWet
(Post 4683886)
Livorsi 1050s on my 25’ Baja. Work great, keep the bow glued in some pretty rough stuff. Obviously when they’re full down they will cause bow steer. As long as you use some sense they work great for this size boat.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...3fa10053a.jpeg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...eb50bb643.jpeg |
Nice catch. I missed that. Top and bottom.
Originally Posted by Gimme Fuel
(Post 4684009)
Almost looks like those Livorsi's have multiple adjustment holes for mounting the ram to the lower plate. Further out you put ram mount, you would decrease the speed/amount of plate movement and cure the issues of too fast movement and too much effect on hull.
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Originally Posted by frickstyle
(Post 4684000)
Let me know if you're interested, they would be perfect for your boat. I'll snap a pic tomorrow when I'm turning wrenches.
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Originally Posted by Gimme Fuel
(Post 4684009)
Almost looks like those Livorsi's have multiple adjustment holes for mounting the ram to the lower plate. Further out you put ram mount, you would decrease the speed/amount of plate movement and cure the issues of too fast movement and too much effect on hull.
You are correct sir, the screws can be moved to adjust the tabs max up/down. For those that don’t know you can also get these tabs with the k-planes foot print. |
I like being able to bury the bow when it https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...082c091a57.jpg
is lumpy and chug along on plane at 2200 with these all the way down. We usually boat on Cumberland but will take the boat out in the Toilet (Lake Erie) early in the year before the funk starts growing. |
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Smart tabs
Hi everyone!
Little boats we were talking..i have small and light boat and i assembled smart tabs in my 16ft boat. It really stays in plane with very low speed and gives stability when drive no one but me on board. In Top speed they barely touches water so there i go lot of chinewalk...there is option for adjust them little stronger but not want to lose top speed 😁 Have no idea how they work over 20ft boats, any examples?? |
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