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no more autoclaves; a new procedure to heat and fuse laminates together

Old 01-17-2020, 08:13 AM
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25 foot Speedster







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Old 01-17-2020, 02:45 PM
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I think very few builders are using the latest, newest and maybe best building methods as is and fewer would be selling boats if they added that expense to purchase cost.

Ive always been of the impression that when done correctly, even old school, plywood stringers/transom/floors and polyester resins can be nearly indestructible.
Ive seen the insides of enough abused old boats built that way to doubt it.

So many variables in even basic construction to blame the method when it wasn’t followed.

Heres one that always intrigued me:
How long do they leave the hull in the mold after lay up?
Many builders pull them the next day even though they post cure for wks!
Some hi end bldrs advertise leaving hulls in molds for wks before pulling them.

Then what do they set those hulls on when pulled from the molds?
Most use two separate wheeled cradles.
They then lay in the grid work and glass it up.
Think it’s straight, level, plumb?

I like old school, done well.

Last edited by Twin O/B Sonic; 01-17-2020 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 01-18-2020, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by noli View Post
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yes, I believe that's the process called post-curing, and special resins are used in post-curing inside the autoclave

before going inside the oven, the part has already been vacuum bagged and the resin has hardened, and the post-cure inside the oven further cures the resin to its strongest state




.
it's fairly obvious by your own statements that you do not know what an autoclave is. a post bake cure oven it's not. try using a google search and you will see that it's a big fancy pressure cooker that changes the atmospheric pressure and uses (predominately) steam to heat the environment while puting the entire chamber in a vacuum.
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Old 01-18-2020, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Boatlesss View Post
...uses (predominately) steam to heat the environment ....
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did you say heat?

I tot that's what I said ?




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Old 01-18-2020, 05:59 PM
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And pressure......
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Old 01-18-2020, 06:08 PM
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I believe in the hi-perf marine industry, the laminates are vacuum bagged outside the autoclave, thus when they enter the autoclave, the laminates are already cured and vacuum bagged such that the autoclave is used only to further cure the part. The vacuum that may exist inside the autoclave in my guesstimate serves no purpose as the part has already been under -1 bar atm pressure during the (primary )cure of the resin

http://www.boatingmag.com/outerlimits-sl-41/


"...Our top speed is about 10 mph faster than you can expect from Nor-Tech’s 427 ($620,000 with the same power). Credit for some of that edge can go to the weight saved by Outerlimits’ construction methods, which use epoxy resin, E-glass, and carbon and Kevlar reinforcement. Each piece of treated hull and deck reinforcing fabric and coring is laid in the mold and vacuum-bagged to eliminate air and excess resin, which could weaken the lightweight epoxy construction. Parts are then cured in an autoclave — a computer-controlled oven — for two days. The stringers and transom are cored with composite Penske boards. Other manufacturers use similar materials, but Outerlimits is the only one to cure the boat in an autoclave to get the optimum combination of strength and weight."
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Old 01-19-2020, 11:37 AM
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an autoclave for composites is basically a heated pressure vessle with the bagged component vented to outside atmosphere. If you google autoclave you will most likely get medical examples of some type. In composite use it us used to take the vaccum process to an exponentially higher level. In a simple vac bag system the best you can ever get is one atmosphere or about 14.7 psi. Autoclaves allow you to control surface pressure to whatever psi you need as well as heat and allowing you to drive the fibers very close together. No manufacturer of boats have or use an actual autoclave and any autoclaves that are big enough are used in aerospace. Many manufacturers infuse and post cure and this is light years ahead of prevous methods but has very little in common with an autoclave produced part. There maye be some clave use in Americas Cup type yacht racing, components im sure and maybe even hulls at that level. but no one is clave'ing performance boat hulls. The pressure vessle big enough fo that would be a multi million doller piece of equiptment . . . . maybe Victory in Dubai . . .

i had been following this method and look forward to seeing how it can be utilized and its limitations. Cool stuff . . .
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Last edited by glassdave; 01-19-2020 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 01-19-2020, 12:04 PM
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oh . . . it will be a LONG time before we see this make its way down to the boat hobbiest level so dont go rushing to West Marine lookin for a gallon of "Insta-Clave" (copywright pending) lol
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Last edited by glassdave; 01-19-2020 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 01-19-2020, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by noli View Post
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I believe in the hi-perf marine industry, the laminates are vacuum bagged outside the autoclave, thus when they enter the autoclave, the laminates are already cured and vacuum bagged such that the autoclave is used only to further cure the part. The vacuum that may exist inside the autoclave in my guesstimate serves no purpose as the part has already been under -1 bar atm pressure during the (primary )cure of the resin

http://www.boatingmag.com/outerlimits-sl-41/


"...Our top speed is about 10 mph faster than you can expect from Nor-Tech’s 427 ($620,000 with the same power). Credit for some of that edge can go to the weight saved by Outerlimits’ construction methods, which use epoxy resin, E-glass, and carbon and Kevlar reinforcement. Each piece of treated hull and deck reinforcing fabric and coring is laid in the mold and vacuum-bagged to eliminate air and excess resin, which could weaken the lightweight epoxy construction. Parts are then cured in an autoclave — a computer-controlled oven — for two days. The stringers and transom are cored with composite Penske boards. Other manufacturers use similar materials, but Outerlimits is the only one to cure the boat in an autoclave to get the optimum combination of strength and weight."
At Outerlimits we do not use an autoclave but we are the only manufacture to post cure in an oven.
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Old 01-19-2020, 04:48 PM
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gigantic autoclave





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