Manatee Madness Rally
 

Rally Sat. had great turn out. Was well suported by City of Cape Coral,and State. Had a hard time just finding a place to park and the news papers were kind in their coverage. I hope that they gained some financial support to fight this thing as we are the tip of the iceberg.This new move by the Manatee Mania does not only effect the Cape but entire S.W. coast from Tampa to Everglades City.

I love the manatees
 

I just love em, broiled with a little lemon on top, the taste kinda reminds ya of a bald eagle or baby harp seal, MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Good !!!!!!!!

See you Dec 2nd. Every boater in the area should attend But I know they wont. This manatee stuff is just pure bull****.

Dan

Was there..good size crowd but was hoping it would have been bigger.....will definately be at the December 2 meeing.

skip

Way to go guys!! Sat @ 5:00 AM, I was in a Ryder rental truck, on my way to W.Palm Beach to pick up new furniture for our home, and I got back home around 7:00PM or I would have been there.
I'll be at our meeting on 12/4/02 in Melbourne Fl. and I'll try to make the on 12/06/02 in Daytona Beach.
Here's a SCAREY link, it's all the areas on FL. that the USFWS considers to have INADEQATE Protections. It shows all of Brevard Co. has having INADEQATE Protection!!!

http://northflorida.fws.gov/Manatee/...Protection.pdf

Another link from USFWS site is the Public Inputs. Almost all of the comments for more Manatee protection are either $MC FORM LETTERS or the PAID $MC EMPLLOYEEs!!!:mad: You find MD quoted in the Public Input Appendix a few times!:D

http://northflorida.fws.gov/Manatee/...c_Comments.pdf

We are going to get run over with this Manatee BS, if we don't get UNITED and FUNDED to fight this!
MD

SpectreBoy - SHAME ON YOU !!!!

everybody knows that manatees are best with cheese & onions...

Manatee Madness Rally
 

First I know it's cute to joke about Manatees, but we boaters in Florida have a serious battle going on just to preserve our right to boat, unlike Ohio. Just be thankful that Zebra clams or what ever aren't CUTE or they would provide the reason for eliminating boating in Ohio.

Has anyone seen the time for Ft.Myers meeting Dec.2nd. ?

6-9pm at the Harborside conv ctr

Thanks Dan, I haven't seen anything more about the meeting.

Great!...Glad people are attending.

For the Tampa/St. Pete area folks we have a meeting on December 3rd at the Holiday Inn, 4732 N. Dale Mabry in Tampa from 6:00pm-9:00pm

See ya there...

Guys,
I believe all the meeting are set for 6-9 pm to enable the general public to attend. We have to show up in BIG #'s to STOP this madness. Hell, Dec. 4 the day of the meeting here in Melbourne is my WEDDING anniversary and I talked to HQ about it and she said that there was no CHOICE, we are going to the meeting!!
MD

PS Here is the website with all the schedule info.

http://northflorida.fws.gov/Manatee/...g-schedule.htm

Hey Dean, What a guy!......but more so WHAT A GAL ! I'm sure that you will make it up afterwards. We need the numbers and the money to fight this voodoo science. Slow zones aren't working so they add more. then they reason, If we eliminate docks and lifts we eliminate boats and boats are responsible for 20% of the deaths. What about the 80% ?

Stillcrazy,
BINGO!! One would think that if you could reduce the 80% of "Other" mortalities down to, say 40%, a 50% reduction, you would SAVE ALOT MORE Manatees, then trying to reduce the 20% to 0%, WHICH WILL NEVER HAPPEN as long as there are commercial vessels running around! And you are correct in that Manatee Zones aren't working, yet they want to install more zones! The only thing that is endangered is the $MC itself!!
MD
And yes I'm a lucky man to be married to such a GREAT Woman!:D

Sorry for getting on my soap box but was upset by the newspaper this morn. where it said" Manatee fossils were found in Florida which date to 45,000,000 years ago which makes humans the intruders ! " 45 million?

It's an accepted truth that the manatee was in North America long before man. But I have to ask, wasn't the manatee an intruder too? Wasn't some other species already there say 45,000,001 years ago? :D

Here's what the $MC is doing about the meetings.
MD:mad:
http://www.savethemanatee.org/tammpa.htm

And this is what our Local Congressman, Dave Weldon, is doing!

Representative Weldon calls for investigation of manatee protection
Representative Dave Weldon recently asked the General Accounting Office (GAO) to review actions taken by the United States Fish & Wildlife Service (FWS) in carrying out their duty to protect the manatee. The GAO is the investigative arm of Congress, with the responsibility to provide impartial analysis of federal programs to help Congress make effective oversight, policy, and funding decisions.



In his letter, Representative Weldon asks the GAO to find:



- How has the government assessed the data it uses to push for more manatee protection?

- Does the government allow public input on the validity of the data, or to provide other data that may challenge the Service's assumptions?

- Did FWS modify any of their proposals in response to objections by the public? Who decided, and how did they decide, what weight to give to the public's objections?

- What proof does FWS have that manatees are killed mostly by recreational boats?

- What proof does FWS have that fast speeds are more dangerous to manatees than slow speeds?

- Has any neutral party evaluated the necropsy reports used to attribute manatee deaths to boats?

- Have the power plants changed the migratory patterns of manatees?

- Is the FWS simply a pawn of the environmental groups?

- Is the FWS duplicating state regulations?





If these questions seem familiar, it's because they come from CFW members, who have been asking Representative Weldon to investigate the abuses by FWS for some time. Citizens are encouraged to contact Representative Weldon's office to express concern about this issue. Stay tuned for the GAO's response to Representative Weldon.

Manate Madness Rally
 

Thanks for the info.Our Rally last week estimated at 2000 and expecting twice that for tonight in Ft. Myers.

Here's an article in the Orlando Slantnel this morning.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...me%2Dheadlines

Guys,
How did the meeting in Ft. Myers go?

MD

Manatee Madness Rally
 

Article in "Slanted View" disturbing when it says the BEST THING EVER for Manatees.Then they follow up with an uninformed view of what they think is meant by DOCKS. By not having docks then we won't have boats and since that is their objective(elimination of boats) the next step is non renewal of boat license or registration restrictions then growth control. SW Florida is just the start.
Meeting went very well. Had between 2500 and 3000 depending on who counted. We filled the Harborside Hall. 20% of speakers had good thoughtful input,79% emotional against. and 1% Manatee lovers. Had organized signs and banners protesting all over. Good news coverage.

Still,
Of that 1% of Manatee lovers, do you know how many of them live local, or live on the water there in Ft. Myers? I bet you'll find very few, if any, live there! In the past, the $MC has been known to BUS in supporters, to make their #'s greater!!!! And you have found the truth, the Manatee is nothing more than a TOOL to control growth along the inland waterways in FL.
Sounds like a real good showing for the boaters/waterfront property owners, hopefully, we can do the same tomorrow!
MD

Fresh from the Fl. Sportsman site! More $MC LIES!!

SMC Study Flawed

Do manatee zones increase property value? No, according to an article in the November issue of Citizens For Florida’s Waterways. Brevard County Property Appraiser Jim Ford said the study published by Save the Manatee Club that claimed higher values for manatee zones in Broward County had several major problems.

"Two of three test models showed manatee zones had a negative impact on value," Ford stresses. "Housing values declined around highly restrictive manatee zones. Data itself was also suspect. For example, a 1,020 square-foot home was said to have more than five bedrooms and four baths. The SMC report ignored standard research procedures in order to produce favorable results."

We should not be surprised. SMC propaganda rarely hinges on scientifically verified facts or figures.

How these $MC people get away with all these LIES is beyond me! Not only that, but when they SUE the FL. State and US Fed. gov'ts and OUR tax dollars are spent trying to defend these BS lawsuits!

MD:mad:

I attended and was not real impressed.
Ive been thru this BS before with the spotted owl fiasco in the Northwest and saw what the gov't can do to an industry as large as the lumber industry. If you think some guy in the Cape wanting to put a dock by his house has more pull then Georgia Pacific or Weyerhauser, guess again. Those guys from the FWS were just flunkys puttin on a dog and pony show for the masses.
The only way unfortunetly for anything thing to happen is to get our Reps in DC to get behind this and put pressure on the state as well. We need to have affective lobbisits, and money!!! Last resort is to keep sueing the bastards untill they back down some, but the cats out of the bag now folks, and the enviro *******s are gonna keep after it, and no matter what, they'll get something approved now and go for more later.
Having said that...I have no intention of giving up..writing letters and helping were I can.
Now its the snowmobiles there after too. It never Fu..in ends!!!!
As you can tell Dean..this **** pisses me off
Dan

DanB
I feel your frustration! Don't let this get you down because the thing about this for you, I and every other Water Front property owner in Fl, is we have a GREAT deal to lose here, not to mention our boat investment $$! The enormous amount of Property taxes that we pay to live on the water, not to mention the $$ we have invested in our HOMES, could go UP and DOWN respectively!
I think we are making a DENT in the $MC propaganda machine, and we, CFW, have sued the state and Fed. Gov't and will continue to sue/fight this till the bitter end! We need to continue to support Standing-Watch, and CFW with our $$ and participation @ these events!
And you are correct, we need to continue to write our state/fed Representives and tell them that we will HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE for this happening in their districts by how we vote @ the polls next election! In that small way, we are more powerful than GP or Weyerhauser! I'll report tommorrow how our meeting goes tonight.
MD

Found this on www.Standing-watch.org! The feds admit that the reason they are adding these ADDITIONAL Zones because of the $MC Lawsuit, not SCIENCE!

http://www.news-press.com/news/local...nateesnit.html

"We’re dealing with a river that has had only 11 watercraft mortalities in 30 years, and none in the last three years. So all those regulations the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission put in place were on a river without a problem."

We lost Skyes Creek, where we live to the State and Feds this year in which records show 1 MANATEE boat related mortality in 27 years!!!!!!



MD :D

We can stand back and see a mountain to climb and say it's too tall or we can start to climb it......step by step. It was only the boaters that cried foul but now they have stepped on many other toes and that is why I viewed the meeting a little more positive. The effect of the meeting on the outcome....very little, but it's ONE STEP.

More update from the meeting!

Manatee rules hearing draws 2,500

A turnout of more than 2,500 people at the first of seven public hearings being held in Florida on the latest federal manatee protection plan should be “an eye opener” for the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, one of the industry’s leading activists said this morning.

“The people aren’t going to roll over and take it,” Jim Kalvin, president of the Florida Water Access Coalition, said in a telephone interview.

The Access Coalition is made up of several state and national organizations, including the Marine Industries Association of Florida, the Personal Watercraft Industry Association, the National Marine Manufacturers Association, USA WaterSki, Florida Marine Contractors Association, Florida Council of Yacht Clubs, Florida Yacht Brokers Association and Standing Watch

Most of those who showed up for the meeting at Harborside Convention Hall in Fort Myers opposed the plan, Kalvin says. The meeting began at 6 p.m. and was scheduled to run until 9, but was extended until 10 p.m. to allow more people to speak.

An array of signs, t-shirts, flags and banners bore slogans such as, “Docks don’t kill manatees,” and Kalvin says a marine supply truck filled with “loads of pilings and timber” was parked outside.

The manatee protection plan, which was released in November, calls for a five-year moratorium on boat ramp, dock and marina construction throughout Southwest Florida — an area encompassing Lee, Collier, Pasco, Monroe, DeSoto, Glades and Hendry counties.

The rule is scheduled to take effect in May, following the required public comment period that began with Monday’s hearing. Six more hearings are scheduled.

Kalvin, who also founded the boating coalition Standing Watch, describes Monday’s turnout as “phenomenal.” He says he was impressed not only with the number of people who spoke out in opposition (more than 300), but with their awareness of the issues.

“[The speakers] weren’t just up there making noise because they were upset,” he said, calling them “well informed.”

Even after the extension to 10 p.m., there were more people who wanted to speak but couldn’t because time had run out, he says.

In the two and a half hours he was present, Kalvin says he only heard two people say they supported the plan, one of whom he says was “very uninformed” on the issue of manatee survival rates.

“She thinks manatees are going extinct,” Kalvin says. “She had no clue.”

The other supporter was primarily concerned about new construction causing too much boat traffic in the area, an issue Kalvin says can be remedied other ways besides issuing a blanket building moratorium for the entire Southwest region of the state.

One of the biggest problems with the proposal, Kalvin says, is the “dramatic effect” it will have on the local economy.

In the first year alone, Kalvin says Fish & Wildlife estimates the negative impact will be somewhere in the $24 to $25 million range, figures he feels are grossly underestimated.

“I think that’s way low,” says Kalvin.

And “absolutely no effort,” he says, has been made to assess the trickledown effect the moratorium will have on business owners.

It’s not only will marine contractors, boatbuilders and manufacturers of boat lifts and trailers who will be affected, Kalvin says. He points out that many electricians, plumbers and carpenters rely on marine business to earn their livings.

If the plan takes effect in May, Kalvin says he anticipates illegally constructed docks will start popping and homeowners will begin tying their boats up to bare sea walls, which he says is “unsafe.”

Kalvin expects another big turnout tonight, when a second hearing is held at the Holiday Inn and Conference Center in Tampa. The Access Coalition will be represented, he says.

“[People] need to be there,” Kalvin says of the hearing. Otherwise, he says, “We’re going to lose it. The writing’s on the wall.”


MD:D

Local liberal POS newspaper article!!

Brevard residents to speak out on manatee plan tonight

By Jim Waymer
FLORIDA TODAY

Brevard County residents will get a chance tonight to ask federal wildlife officials about new proposed regulations on building docks, marinas and other marine structures near manatee habitat.

The U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service will hold a public hearing from 6-9 p.m., Dec. 4, at the Radisson Suite Hotel Oceanfront, 3101 N. Highway A1A, Indialantic.

Wildlife officials will take written and verbal comments about a proposed rule that will govern what homeowners, municipalities and marinas must do to get permits for docks, moorings, boat slips and other structures that add boats on the water near manatee habitat.

The rule is needed to comply with the 1972 Marine Mammal Protection Act, which prohibits any "incidental take" of endangered mammals without formal federal guidelines for allowing such takes.

An incidental take is a legal term that includes killing, harassing or harming an endangered species. Federal officials said they were already working on the guidelines, but also moved forward with them to comply with a legal settlement reached last year with a coalition of environmental groups.


MD

Well,
The boater/H2Ofront property owner turn out was TERRIBLE!!!:(
There was only about ~25 people total, with 1/2 of them from the $MC! Hell, the $MC even had a booth set-up outside the conference room!
The apathy amoung boaters is DISAPPOINTING!! And our wedding anniversary was last night, and I went to this meeting INSTEAD of going out to dinner with my beautiful wife!!
All I hear from Brevard Co. boaters is how they hate the Manatee zones, YET, when the opportunity presents itself to voice their displeasure about these ineffective rules is presented to them, THEY DON'T SHOW!!!
And of course the PAID EMPLOYEES of the $MC were the first 8 people to speak to the USFWS commission, asking for EVEN MORE regulations than what the USFWS is contemplating NOW!! I got up and spoke my mind and pointed out MANY flaws in their data and approach!! But if the USFWS uses the # of people who showed up to contest these new regulations as a varible in their rule making, THEN we are toast!
A couple of items that the USFWS mentioned were,

"More Regulations for boat racing events"

"Volusia County's Tomoka and Halifax Rivers will receive more regulation"

I guess I can find comfort in the fact that I go to these meetings and try to make a difference and the FACT that we have a dock/lift that's in great shape, ( I saw the writing on the wall last year and had our dock updated) and I don't have to worry about having access to the H2O! We're grandfathered in!:eek:
Sorry, just venting!
MD:confused:

Dean,
Feel for you and we had much the same apathy in Lee Co. until they stepped on people other than boaters. This morn. paper uncovers one problem. Lee co. has had 13 years to come up with a Manatee protection plan and didn't. They promised to have one by 1996 and failed, it was then promised for 1998 and again missed. Thier excuse was that the GOV. is a "moving target" so they can't give them what they want if they don't know what it is. Correct....but I have dealt with the Feds. in writting Operations Manuals for the EPA and Coast Guard. It can be done. Lee Co politics smack of the "Good Ole boy" and until they step up we hurt ourselves by not doting all the i's

Still,
Brevard had a similiar problem is that the 2 different Manatee Protection Plans that were submitted, were REJECTED by the FFWCC and USFWS! IT kind of the same old story, go and submit it and then we'll, (USFWS) just do what the LAWSUIT settlement tells us to! I afraid it's still the USFWS going thru the motions, and one of the motions is public input meetings!
MD

Well, I went to the meeting in Tampa...It was a lousy turnout. I think there were only like 300 people there. Nonetheless, the general consensus was positive. There was only a handful of people in favor of the new proposed legislation but an overwhelming majority was against it. I was glad to see a good number of officials present in support of the public.

Here's an excerpt from the St. Pete Times:

"Federal wildlife officials announced last month that they intend to clamp down on permits for new docks, marinas and boat ramps from Pasco County south to the state's southern tip. They expect that to limit the number of boats in areas where manatees congregate. Their goal is to cut the number of manatee deaths caused by speeding boats, which as of the end of November had hit a record high of 91 deaths.

Another imaginative suggestion came from avid scuba diver Norman Linton of St. Petersburg, who said he had heard manatees are "an excellent source of protein and delicious to boot." So, he asked, why not legalize manatee farms and require part of each "crop" be released to the wild?

Among those who spoke against the regulations at the Fort Myers hearing were state Rep. Lindsay Harrington, R-Punta Gorda, recently chosen House speaker pro tempore, as well as a number of local officials, including Lee County Commissioner Andy Coy. Coy said blocking boat docks in Lee County is "like outlawing cabins in North Carolina, basketball in Indiana and Mickey Mouse in Orlando." :D

DB,
Here's what the Tampa paper had to say!

http://tampatrib.com/floridametronews/MGAGFD4VA9D.html

MD

Thanks Dean!
That's exactly why I don't read that lousy, liberal, POS, poor excuse for journalistic scribbling on toilet paper. The Tribune Sucks!

St. Pete Times, is much more professional, less slanted on most issues and is an award winning paper.

Dean
I hear what your saying..apithy is our worst enemy

Stillcrazy
I didnt say I was giving up...just getting discouraged. I been thru this crap sooooo many times.

Hey Daze!!!
Happy holidays

Dan

Thanks Dan,
Same to You, buddy. Happy Holidays!!

This chit gets old, especially when no one listens. I've seen this too many times. Public comment periods basically mean nothing!...I've seen it before when the overwhelming majority of comments are one way, but leglislation will not reflect it. Some one always thinks they know better. :mad:

Here is a letter in our Local RAG newspaper from the LOCAL $MC Employees. who was one of the speakers @ the meeting the other night.
The $MC Propaganda machine never SLEEPS!!

It's funny how the $MC research funding is for everything EXCEPT Manatee boat related Mortalites!!! The $MC will never FUND that kind of research, because they don't want the TRUTH to come out!
That being, RECREATIONAL BOATERS ARE NOT THE VESSELS KILLING 90% of the Manatees!!
Man, I really dislike this *****!!


Manatee Club is doing its work
By Sandra Clinger, Save the Manatee Club, Titusville

Citizens for Florida's Waterways secretary Kelly Haugh's recent letter to the editor challenged Save the Manatee Club to "put up or shut up."

Haugh accused SMC of donating no money for research. But SMC has donated $250,000 for numerous research projects including studies investigating human-manatee interactions, manatee distribution and physiology.

Further, SMC donates to the rescue effort, including the purchase of several agency vessels. The organization has also lobbied for and obtained $2 million for increased federal law enforcement and has spent more than $1 million for education programs and public awareness signs.

SMC fought to get the manatee license-plate bill adopted. The millions of dollars in revenue generated through the voluntary purchase of the plate are dedicated to the state's manatee conservation efforts including research and management programs. This saves tax dollars.

SMC relies on the best available scientific data to support adoption of necessary manatee protection measures. This is why we have been successful in our legal defense of boat speed zones in Florida, including the zone challenge in Brevard County, brought in part by five members of CFW.

Under oath, CFW's own hired expert on manatee hearing conceded slow speed zones are necessary to protect manatees from being killed by boats. The new manatee zones in Brevard still leave approximately 70 percent of Brevard County's waters unregulated.

By protecting manatees, we make the waters safer for humans and manatees and those protections benefit the whole aquatic ecosystem.

When CFW loses its obsession with attacking SMC and refocuses on the real issues, we will be ready to work with them.

MD:mad:

UnFukkinbelievable....They are fine spin doctors, but no more.
:mad::mad:

Manatee Madness Rally
 

You are right that the public comments are not going to change anything but the fact that they have stepped on some toes that don't belong to boaters, they will carry the fight that the boaters don't have the guts to do. We now have some people that have $$ and jobs to lose. Not just inconvieniance to a boater. Will it make you mad when they restrict the number of registrations for a given area? I'm hoping that now they will help do what we didn't want to do. Dig into our pockets and geet involved.
SORRY for the venting