Disgust in offshore racing
 

Looking for some feedback.

Here is the skinny. Race Team finishes the World Championships in second place and protested the first place boat due to illegal equipment. Chief Referee is presented a protest in writing within an hour after race completion (according to the organizations rule book) and disqualifies the first place boat due to the infraction. The win goes to the second place team, team interviewed by the media although not awarded the trophy at the awards banquet and is told protest is still under review. Protesting Team notified 5 days later that the protest will not hold with this explanation: Protested team ran previous years with the same set up and that there was a misprint in the rule book for the year in question (in essence the rule book was wrong??). Protested boat ran 0 races during the regular season and only participated in the Worlds, Protesting boat ran the entire season. Chief Referee contacted the Protesting Team a month later with disgust with the overruling made by the Organizations President and quits the Organization.


How would you feel about this and what would you do?


Thanks

Ok how many people could name last year's World's winner anyway? I couldn't tell you who won the last Daytona 500 either. See how unimportant it is?

Come back this year, look at the competitor's boat and see if the illegal equipment is still there, protest the issue BEFORE the race and then go race. I'd bet if you win this year you wouldn't even remember last year.

Thanks Jupiter. Your input is noted and appreciated! Stay tuned to this thread to get all of the story, which makes for an interesting story brother. Would like to see more points from others!

no one wins these tech protest games i say tech them before then race then beat the hell out of them on the water unless they have an 100 pound nitrous bottle theres most often no gain or advantage

multiple thoughts..

1. A W/C is the last race of the year, series ran all year knowing there was an issue with the rulebook and made no attempt to correct??
2. did you know about this before the race or find out afterwards?? If you knew before the race and raised no issue, its on you....
3. given the history of the various orgs, nobody ever accused an offshore race org of playing fair.

Thanks for your input Boost! It is appreciated. What we are looking for is what you would do if this happened to you. You followed the rules all season and the last most important race you are told there was a mistake in the rule book and the Team that had illegal equipment won and the equipment was a major competitive advantage and it was determined 5 days after the race was completed!!

What would happen in any other race organizations that are not on the take. They would disqualify them if they had illegal equipment or penalize them points for a year long race schedule. Not knowing what they had the equipment or lack there of could make a significant difference. Also not opined on is the lack of racing during the season takes away from the sport that needs teams participating. The ones that do are I believe at a disadvantage with wear and tear on their equipment which can supersede the chemistry of racing together all year. Many of these one race wonders have raced together in the past so advantage of the year together is not that important. Having to race every event and keep the boat in too too shape is a disadvantage in my opinion. So yes I would think the reason we have rules is to keep things competitive and you need to adhere to it completely or it becomes very weak. Just look at our cities with lack of upholding the laws to see the negative effect 😂. I can certainly understand your frustration but know you raced the right way and come out swinging next year

IMHO, as soon as the rule book is released for the year, that is the perimeters that your are racing under and all previous versions of yearly rules are void.

Misprint or not, once the race started, what is in print is the rules for the race if there was no amendments put forward and accepted prior to race day .... as the OP wrote the circumstances, the organization let down all the racers

(Never did understand how you can only run the 3 final races and be called the "world champion" when racing was underway all season long all across the country)

If they were in fact competing with equipment that was permitted by the misprinted rule book, then they were doing nothing wrong. I've been on both sides of this in the stock car industry, and the best tool for technical inspection we have, that nobody can argue with is the printed rule book. If it was amended throughout the season with a printed technical notification sent to all registered teams, then they should have complied.

We attended many races as a racer & spectator after every race some team marching around crying foul. Did it happen good chance can you change results no! :food-smiley-007:

This.

What specific advantage did the boat with the illegal equipment have that gave the competitor the advantage and what specifically did the rule book call for that was not complied with, I ask these questions because that would be very helpful in fully understanding the disadvantage you experienced.

Frankly, it's stupid sh!t like this, the way the various splitting offshore organizations, the in-fighting, the egos, the BS, the favorites, rules for thee but not for me, etc. etc. that make offshore racing difficult at best to follow and at worst, a complete sh!t show. I love the whole offshore racing scene and have since I was a kid and even I can't keep up with the rules, the brackets, the divisions, the changes the in-fighting, the turn over, all the DRAAAAAAAMA. :picard1:

Some teams interpret the rules differently than what they were written for. That gives them an excuse as to why they didn't follow the rule how it was meant to read.. Its a real $hitty way of taking advantage and then complaining when called out. I believe there is or was a statement in the front of the rules that said something to the effect of If your not sure about a rule ask for clarification don't assume you have out smarted a rule and bang goes the dyno mite !!!

Unfortunately this is what causes the decline in this sport.

Kinda naïve to think cheating, aka bending the rules or undermining the rules, doesn't exist at most every form of competition. Even the NFL, NASCAR, Tour de France have cheaters, from under inflated footballs to pieces of tape on stockcars and and individuals doping. Smokey Yunick was elevated to god like status for his ability to cheat frequently and fool NASCAR inspectors. Google any motorsport sanction body and cheating for a quick education.

This is a really good video/story to listen to about a topic like this. Pretty crazy what people would come up with the find the edge to win.

Appreciate the Responses!
 

Rules state thru-hull pickups are not allowed. The advantage of a thru-hull pickup is as follows:

1. Allows coolant water to be forced into a common manifold whereas each motor will draw off the manifold will have a sufficient supply of coolant water as long as the hull is moving forward

2. If a water pump fails or a bag or weeds are ingested into the low water pickup on the lower unit, the motor will continue to run safely

3. Allows higher engine jacking and the use of a higher pitch prop and higher top speed


We appreciate the time ya'll took to read, reply and like. Supercool to see the pro Typhoon respond with insightful opinions. We are still looking for your expertise and opinion of "what would you do" in a situation like this. This is not a recent event, in fact its ancient history of one of the roughest offshore races on record.

Thank you for the thorough response, I now clearly see your point.

weeds are ever more of an issue with thru hull at slow speeds i really dont see much advantage unless way over 100 sorta like cleat size they have 8 inch you have 6 inch in reality theres little difference if anything maybe thru hull is a disadvantage at under 100 i have had many plug up requiring removing the hose from thru hull and back flushing the weeds...... up here they are terrible around the marinas in lake ontario so we idle out to clean water then clean the intake thats often plugged second point is a thru hull is very easy to see before you head out to race why cry foul after? if you won would the same protest been made?

I agree, but see his #3 reason. I think that could be the actual advantage ?

Good points Boosted and I agree the seaweed issue is minimal although I dont agree with the over 100mph. With multiple outboard setups, especially in a pro stock triple engined race boat, the biggest advantage of this setup is speed, a good three to five mph is gained with high x dimensions and the right prop. The thru hull on the boat in question was identified when the protested boat was being crane launched for the second race (hard to see when on the trailer-they were moulded into the bottom of the hull not attached at the transom). The Chief referee concurred and DQ the protested boat from the first race, not the second since the protest should have been served prior to the start of the race. As for your other question, the answer is Yes we would, at the start of the next race event.

The big picture here is the Chief Referee made a decision and it was overturned by the President of the association through a complaint by the protested team. The purported reason was there was a missprint of the rule book?? No, the Chief Referee make the right decision and this issue forced him to resign. Even the Poker Run Magazine had the protesting team as winners of the class.

This gets to the core of ThisisTank message which sums it up perfectly.

To revert back to the roughest race in offshore history click the link and here what some of the drivers had to say.

t500hps /Russ, myself, and two other guys which we have been 20-year-friends through OSO and offshore boating...
...all now currently race in NASA Camaro Mustang Challenge, a spec road racing series with a very well defined set of rules.

This is the rule that ends all the questions:

All of us have bumped up against that at some point when it comes to something we have done to our cars; in an effort to come up with a competitive advantage in a spec series.
Most of us have been vetoed by the Series Officials who are fellow competitors. We do have challenge protocols in place as well through NASA.

I don't get why the rules are so muddied when it comes to Offshore Racing. It's not like anyone is getting rich.

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...Ew&oe=63187C65

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...Lw&oe=6319EE75

Dude, seriously? You are complaining about a race that happened 20 years ago? I assume you were in the Smaller white COBRA cat back then? Everyone knew back then, only ONE guy made all of the rules and decisions, no matter what anyone else's job title was. Luckily , IMO, is on an up-swing right now, with more sponsors and bigger teams coming around, than in many years.

WTF!!
I thought maybe he was referring to last year.
If 20 years ago is correct. :point:
BTW, that's meant for OP, not Beckley.

Protest rarely get over turned in offshore. On course infraction have to be seen by a race official and unfortunately there is not that many on the course. Almost all turn boats are volunteers that aren't familiar with the rules. Im not sure I have ever heard of a on course infraction being called short of missing a turn marker. People get cut off all the time and over take rules are very lose at best. Off course infractions are hard to enforce after a race. Teams get to the crane and in the prosses there are lots of crew working on getting the boat out. If you are a cheater that gives perfect opportunities for someone to remove, change, add, ect. Some courses have 5-10 mile trip back to the crane and a long ride out site to cheat. The moral of the story is if you are one of those guys that are doing something that you know is giving you an unfair advantage I feel sorry for you in this sport. This is not a highly policed sport so don't think you are some smart person. Please understand that innovation is different than cheating. At this time we have a good bunch of teams that respect there competitors so i feel confident.

Agreed. Although there must be a reason to dredge up something from 20 years ago that relates to the present? Do tell.

Different but worth mentioning in the general conversation...

Innovation comes from stretching the rules as far as you can before they break..

Another form of racing I did, I read the rule book frontwards and backards 427 until I had every word memorized and knew exactly what it said and more importantly what it didnt say.

I then built a machine that pushed every boundry. The first race was 150 miles, 5 30 mile laps. I took it easy the first lap and was right behind the leader. The 3rd lap, I lapped him and by the end I was a lap and a half ahead.

Cheaters aren't winners, but winners push the limits of skill and technology.....

I only know offshore as a spectator, but I raced kneel down outboard hydroplanes for nine years and had an a APBA rule book that we dealt with as ironclad, to the best of our knowledge, everyone of those years.

IMO, if you know the rules are flexible, open to interpretation, open to guys with more money than you…..,why would you invest your time, money and effort to try and compete when you know you will lose?

On the world championship gig, I learned early on you can call any race you want a world championship!

I was reminded of this after bumping into an ex girlfriend many yrs ago, after I quit racing.

She was with her new boyfriend and enthusiastically introduced me as a “world champion boat racer”.

I was totally offguard and had no idea what she meant.

Ended up a race I entered and won,in Laredo Texas, was advertised as a “world championship”.
(Which I gave her a shirt for)

I won it which made me the world champion.
Correct?

My gig on that whole subject is, it cannot be a championship unless it’s a series of races, with a mandatory minimum number of race completions to be considered.

Let alone a world championship!

But, this is our world and has been for decades.

I could be a one race deal, but it needs to be a specific one off deal..

Example: When I raced, seperate from the series, every other year they had a special 24 hour endurance race. They used the same course every time to keep it consistent. Racers came from several countries, factory teams came, the best of the best... and if you broke your class record, you were the world champion and had a world endurance record.

So even if you had never raced in the org before, if you came and beat the existing record...you got the title.

Thanks for joining the conversation Ryan. Good to see another current high profile racer point of view. We mentioned in earlier posts this was not a recent event and was ancient history. What we are looking for is opinions on “What you would do in a situation like this”.

Thanks

APBA or SBI
 

20 years ago means it was either me or John (RIP). I don’t remember reversing a DQ due to a misprint in the rule book.

Well Said.

Michael 22 years ago not APBA