Prices at the Ft Lauderdale show
 

Super busy show. No sign of "recession" LOL.

Pretty interesting non-scientific observation, boats in the 30 foot range, which I assume is probably where most sales come from for some brands went up by 4 times. Even most wake board boats are at $300K now. In the group of people I was with one of my buddies bought an Everglades 29 around 2006 for $99,000 with twin Honda 200's. That boat now is $399,000 Same story, about 4 times for a similar Boston Whaler and Contender too. These were real owners that have since sold and moved on to other boats. The 40 foot range went up 2 to 2.5 times since 2010 & 2012 So the same guys that owned the Boston, Everglades and Contender went up to Invincible, Yellowfin and Contender. So those guys all bought around $275K to $350 and all those boats are $700,000++ now. All these guys have Merc 300's and obviously, most are at 400 or 450 now. Another interesting thing was materials, almost every boat decreased in weight by about 600 pounds. Except for the Yellowfin, his same boat still looks and weighs exactly the same. Pretty crazy, I know there is inflation, more advanced materials and Mercury has bigger power but I found it really interesting. Not many items saw that level of price increase except butter and milk.

YF, Everglades got swooped up by hedge fund types, Hinckley went that route too so no doubt the bottom line is the focus. Pump out as much product and collect as much as you can!

I have met Steve Dougherty (former owner of Everglades) over the years. I liked the 243, thought it would be a perfect sand bar boat. They were 75K for years, then 115 and now they are over 150K and one is listed on boatrader for 209K. This is a simple boat, single 300 is the usual motor. So I mentioned to Steve at a boat show years back that "I remember when these were 75K," Steve says: "I told you back then you should have bought that boat!"

Bob Dougherty (Steves dad) worked at Whaler, invented the 13 hull design, left and started Edgewater boats (right down the street from Whaler in Edgewater FL), sold EW and started Everglades the sold EG to the hedge fund guys. Steve has since started Solace boats and Bob passed away shortly after the sale of EG.

Had I bought a new 243 in 2005, they were 55Kish, the boat today would still be worth 40K 18 years later!

Yeah, we were joking about that at the show. Every dude I was with had a 40ish CC and at what point in our lives did you own a boat that either held its value or even appreciated! Nuts!

I know its easy to knock the higher pricing of just about everything, but what most people don't understand is how just about EVERYTHING is oil related. Unless you are growing your own food and making your own clothes from the cotton you pick in your back yard or whittling some clogs out of wood.....i bet its oil based or related in some way!
I just did a quick search on 55gal drums of resin. the WEST system 105 at west marine is $2904! So lets say for the sake of this discussion you are building a 30'ish boat and the bare hull weighs in at 2500lbs (again this is just hypothetical) so its a perfect world of infusion and you get a perfect mix of 50/50 resin to glass, you would need 3.125 drums of resin so right there the boat company is buying 4 drums at a cost of around $12K and that's not factoring in the fiberglass itself, the hardener, acetone, any expendables like rollers, vacuum lines, bags, gloves, masks, eye protection etc etc.
We use an epoxy resin to pot some pumps we make for submersible use...the cost of the resin since 2018 has gone up almost 130%!!! the hardener we use has gone up 100% its hard for a salesman to explain to an OEM why we are increasing the cost of a product by 18% in one year when its been historically around 3% or 0 year after year for the last 20yrs!

Going off on a tangent...These anti fossil fuel crusaders make me laugh every time i see them.....i bet the blue or pink dye in your hair is petroleum based! Those avocado "vegan" shoes you are wearing....yep there's an oil based resin holding it all together! Did you drive or bicycle here? How do you think the rubber for the tires is made? You think the light you see at night is made my magic? They need to get their heads of of their you know what and wake up! If they want to crusade about something, go to China and protest against their climate destruction!!! see how that goes for ya! ok i need to go for a walk and calm down! lol :D

The one that made me LOL was the Deep Impact 369 CC STARTING at $620k. LMFAO

gets tougher and tougher for a new boat buyer to enter the sport for sure!
of course there is always the used market most won't have choice to look at to reach their goal of floating in a boat !

Not sure I would use a boat show as a metric for measuring a recession…99% is curiousity vs. serious buyers. Just my opinion.

New 32 Sunny CC's listed at $399K - $420K. 4-5 years ago list was in the upper $200K's. What boggles my mind more than the price increase is the demand for them at the current prices. I believe there was a new 34 Sunny CCX listed over $600K. I know most are well into the upper $500K's now. Hey, more power to Sunny and PBC if people are lining up for 'em at those prices. Get it while the gettin's good.

Everyone talks about the high price of boats but it doesn’t seem to be slowing sales down.

Thats the WTF moment about boating right now, You guys been on here longer than me. Do you guys remember a time when boats held their value or gasp appreciated like they do now? Its nuts, they are getting into plane territory with appreciation.

I was at the show and agree with the comments above. However, I can't see how its going to last. Its one thing to buy a boat at $500k with zero % interest rates. When rates go to 7% or higher, it is an entirely different calculation.

It will be interesting to watch. On one hand, the cost to build has gone up drastically, driving prices higher. On the other, I think we are about to see demand destruction, as way fewer buyers will be able to afford the payments..

Current prices are also taking a lot of cash buyers that don't want to finance toys out of the market.

Our Federal Gov injected so many $Trillions into the system that it my take years for the Fed to drain away the excess wealth that it created out of thin air.

Sure I wish I was part of that excess wealth they gave out that allows you to buy a $500K toy. :angry-smiley-038:

Wildman,

WhAaAaT? You mean that $1400 didn't put you over enough to buy a new Fountain?

Thanks. Brad.
(937)545-8991

Yeah, I'm kinda wishing that myself.

There were literally $Trillions in stimulus thrown at Covid. Just - and I mean just - PPP alone gave away nearly $1 Trillion. I know a guy who's business was going gangbusters during Covid and his company still got $1.9 Million in PPP relief loans, all forgiven = free money in his pocket. Another friend nearly $500k. All forgiven. That on top of the roaring Fed-induced Bull market in stocks because of the Fed's near-zero interest rates.

Here's a list of PPP grants. The awards start out at $10 Million and go down from there. The PPP program was SUPPOSED to just help just small business. The list is 177,880 pages long. Not 177,880 awards - 177,880 PAGES OF AWARDS. Covid 19 created the biggest money giveaway in the history of mankind thanks to our government.
Search Latest PPP Loan List (ppp-loan.info)

Try as they might the Fed still cannot get unemployment to tick up. Too many peeps flush with Gov cash who have no need or desire to work.

Absolutely! I know a local company that got $8 million! The business was up 30% and was far from struggling! I can name off several other local ones that had great years also that still got decent chunks well over $100k.

Subsequent rounds of PPP required a demonstrated drop in revenue. The first round did not require this, they simply based the loan value on the number of employees. Forgiveness was granted if payroll records proved that the amount awarded was equal to or less than the amount spent on payroll during a 3-month period, if I recall correctly.

The bigger issue with the PPP program was there wasn't any verification! I saw an article here in Chicago about the number of people that applied with fraudulent applications for being self employed! they got like $25k each to start if not more! A lot of them are not even registered business'!
There was a neighborhood here that i forget the exact numbers but lets say they have a population of around 3000....that neighborhood got like 2200 PPP loans in just that area alone! It was a ridiculous number that should have been setting off red flags everywhere! I found the excerpt in another article:

A review of Economic Injury Disaster Loan applications from March to November 2020 by the Office of the Inspector General for the Small Business Administration found that a lack of adequate screening “led to 75,180 loans of over $3.1 billion, and 117,135 emergency grants over $550 million, being disbursed to potentially ineligible recipients.”
Federal officials themselves have noted that “self-certification” was a major risk factor for fraud.



SELF CERTIFICATION?!?!? Seriously! how many times has someone gone to the bank for a loan and basically told them "yeah im good for it" and got the money? :lolhit:

I wasn't a prospect before you posted the price and I will never be a prospect for that brand, that size, at that price. I agree, $620K???

It wasnt just the PPP loans. It’s the wealth effect. People saw there 401k, IRA’s, home values, and portfolios sky rocketing.

Oh I know, I was just having fun with a fellow Indianapolis guy. Hell I know some friends that got PPP for "Clubs" they had incorporated.

As for the feds keeping rates low, yes they did that for far to long. But a lot of large banks, investment firms etc sure liked it didn't they? I assume you will have a much better viewpoint of the investment firms considering your lively hood.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...a1331cad22.jpg




https://www.thebalancemoney.com/fed-...s-lows-3306135

Yes the stock market was a fun way to earn a living during Covid - before the Fed took away the punch bowl anyways. I just wish that my capital gains during the Covid19 crisis were taxed at the same rate as PPP - ZERO! :)

Years ago my brother in law was a manufacturer (3rd generation yacht builder), at the end of the boat show they would blow the yacht's horns to signal sales. I can remember it sounding like a tornado was approaching with all the horns blowing (04-05-06).............by 2010 no bank in the US would finance a yacht even with 25% down, then the used market tanked/creating deals in the marketplace so why build new! Trouble was brewing and by 2013-14 their manufacturing business was sunk.

Back then they had to treat everybody at the show like they were a buyer, with the bank financing it was possible for a lot of buyers to be in the market for a 2-3mm yacht. Today I'd think with a shrinking buying pool, they would still have to kiss azz at the dock just in case the guy in the Hawaiian shirt and cargo shorts might be a buyer too!

That does it, I’m listing the Marlago 😂

For real though

People were buying build slots to resell later at a profit.

When those people sense the market turning and back out, all of a sudden 3 year backlogs for new builds become “we can get you into a new boat in a couple months” pretty quickly.

I think we are already there…people just don’t know it yet…🙃

I fly private jets. I can say that at least one one flight last year, 8 out of the 12 people got PPP loans. How do I know, because when I googled their names, it was the first result. People like "PPP loan recipient of $28,684....Hostes at Outback." At least they blew their PPP loan money quickly.

Albury Brothers boats have always had a wait list. They build the boats with the customers money, 20% down, then 20% at each stage of the boat building process. The 23 center console is a great all around boat, they were 100-115K for a few years. I noticed this week they have a pair of 23's available and the prices got cut from 170 to 150K. Clearly someone or a dealer backed out of a couple of orders.......

Your gonna be seeing a lot of deals getting backed out of .....we just purchased a twin spindle horizontal lathe here at work. we just started looking last week and one salesman gave us a call and told us he had a deal go south where the customer ordered 6 machines and only took 5 before the company hit hard times....now they stuck with it. Gave us a $50k discount from new pricing cause they dont want to sit on it till someone comes along and wants the same setup. Its close enough for us with what we do so we jumped on it. If people or company's have some extra cash laying around there will be some nice pickings coming up very soon i think :)