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Thought some of you selling parties might be interested....

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Old 12-04-2002, 01:22 PM
  #21
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Yep same deal here...called me after a few days the ad hit the Trader.
Told them it was too expensive and I never heard of them before...got hung up on.
End of story for me.
BTW...I did see them after that at a Chicago boat show with a **** load of pictures on a board....I just walked by.
DICKS!
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Old 12-04-2002, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by KaamaScarab30
You have got to be kidding. Let me lay it out for you. (And you never cross a state line other than mailing the check.)

#1 -- Put an ad on BoatTrader.

#2 -- Wait for the call and list with your suspect. Ask how long it will take to list the boat. Verify that the 5 "Buyers" are on the line. Pay by check to make locating the suspect easier.

#3 -- Verify that they did not put the listed boat on the web site. (Give them a reasonable time after their date and then a little more time.)

#4 -- Make demand for return of the listing fee.

#5 -- Obtain affidavits from former customers of this pattern. (I would begin with the thread starter.) Include in the affidavit that the person is willing to testify in court to these facts (good for plea negotiations).

#6 -- Obtain your indictment or arrest warrant (as you prefer).

The point is to punish this guy and stop him, not put him in jail. The THREAT of jail is the key to getting fines and restitution.

- Restitution: maybe $1000.00 (+ cost of investigation)
- Fine to your jurisdiction: $10,000.00 (If you do it right).
- Attorney Fees the shmuck had to pay $10,000.00 (Conservatively)
- Feeling of stopping this guy and costing him $20,000+: PRICELESS

Kaama,

Sounds like you have it all figure out. This doesn't need to be done by an on duty officer. Anyone can submit this to the BBB. Like Vern said, it's almost impossible to prove intent. Not to mention, for the average law enforcement agency, this would take a sh*t ton of red tape to work through different jurisdictions. If anyone should know, you should now how time intense something like this would be in reality. I can think of a lot better things to run a "sting" on.

Sounds like a job for a nice greasy lawyer!
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Old 12-04-2002, 02:20 PM
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.........Razor, sorry for your aggravation with this. That really does suck. Some people will do anything to make a $. Don't feel alone - we all live and learn.
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Old 12-04-2002, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vern
KaamaScarab30,

Is there a contract that is signed when you list the boat detailing what you are getting by listing w/ them?
Yeah, I guess you are right -- there is nothing that can be done.

BULLSH!T!!! Are you going to tell me that no one in your agency has tape recorded a telephone conversation without the other party's consent!?! Even in states requiring a warrant to do it, the probable cause showing could be made using the former customers' affidavits.

An oral contract is enforceable in every state I know of. (Not that it matters in a theft or fraud prosecution.) Five cronies is nice to have, but with one count of theft or fraud and affidavits from five other victims for "other crimes evidence" (404B) any reasonable criminal defense attorney is gonna seek a plea agreement.

One isolated instance is a business deal gone bad. This many is a system to defraud.

Don't make me list the steps in a DWI investigation -- #1 -- Pull guy over. #2 -- invent the reason.....
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Old 12-04-2002, 02:32 PM
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There is currently a Class Action law suit over a dating firm that did the same thing. They made up Women who wanted to date this guy but required him to pay the monthly fee. When he did this they gave him phoney Woman (really who arn't ) who when contacted never retuned his call. They did this for months until he made up some real loser guys and still got hot women to respond. It was found they were doing this to get him to continue paying and never really had any women at all
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Old 12-04-2002, 04:43 PM
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What's wrong with phoney women? I have had plenty of them and they feel just like any other.

On a lighter note, and without intending to steal this thread, I updated to a new thread with good news.

Go here:
http://offshoreonly.com/forums/showt...threadid=38268

You can have your doughnut back now, Vern.
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Old 12-04-2002, 10:26 PM
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I wish i could draw a picture of a BIG SCREW on the board so all would get the MESSAGE ,and it just so happens that i got in the mail today ,a post card saying SELL YOUR BOAT 5000 people at NYC boat show will see your add. I put my 27 magnum on there listing 4 years ago,paid there price, it was on there web site but i still HAVET Its not a p.o.s. but i geuss no one wants it ill sell the hull and trailer for 2 big ones,its a sedan that i converted to a single,lotsa work,but all done or trade? tripps
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Old 12-05-2002, 01:31 PM
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Angry Got me too....

Fell for this crap on my advantage a couple of years ago,
they only had two buyers lined up for me. I feel cheated.
They were at the cobo boat show and had my boat in a book,
unfortunately I'm probably the only one that saw it. JC
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Old 12-05-2002, 01:42 PM
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I can't believe that we are going through this again. Once again, I have to say that I was able to get my money back and the state of Wisconsin warned ABL about their practices. If anybody did business with ABL in Wisconsin I'd highly recommend they contact the consumer protection agency. Things might just start to get expensive for ABL.

BTW-if you pay with your credit card, you can try a charge back. ABL didn't bother to reply to the paperwork the card company sent them, so I got a refund by default. Then to rub salt in the wound, the state ordered a refund.
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Old 12-11-2002, 09:53 AM
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Lightbulb not to rehash this, but...

Here's a copy of the letter my crecit card co. requested to protest charges. I will also contact IL Consumer Protection Agency. Thanks for all the advice. I was ready to just let this go. Now i want these guys to pay....

Zack

Dear MBNA Platinum Plus:

The charge in question is for services not rendered. I paid for an ad listing my boat description and picture for sale with ABL – American Boat Listing. I was contacted by THEM , bombarded by phone calls every day, after I had placed an ad with a competitor. I was told I would receive an e-mail with an address where to send my boat pictures for the listing ad, and that they had five interested parties in my exact boat that were willing to pay thousands more than my current asking price. All I needed to do was purchase the ad so they could put me in contact with these potential buyers. I NEVER received that e-mail nor was I contacted by any interested parties (I believe there weren’t any, just shady business ethics to “bait” potential buyers). In fact, after trying to contact them after the last several months, I received ZERO response from them. Once they had my money I received no customer service.

It also appears after conversing with several members of a boating web site, these “business owners” have been practicing these ethics for some time. I was informed the exact same approach (“we have five interested parties in your exact boat”)had been used with several other boat owners with the same results and was warned to never use their services again (I’m being polite in paraphrasing their conversation). I can send an e-mail link to a post with MANY unsatisfied customers of ABL if necessary to justify my claims. Several ABL “customers” said they found recourse through their credit card companies in protesting the charges. ABL did not respond to the refund of charges, so by default, the people who purchased the ads and did not receive services were credited the amount of the sale. This company also has the BBB looking into their actions. Another associate of mine turned them into a state collection agency that was able to recompense the monies for the charges.


Thank You for Your Time,
Zack Richey
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