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Vortec engines in APBA OFFSHORE IN F-1 AND IN F-2 CLASSES WHAT DO YOU THINK??

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Old 12-19-2002, 11:32 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gordo
the other two were overheating due to a water hose in the transom being damaged which shut off cooling water to the engine. Both times the engine went into a protect mode which shut us down to a fast idle. Both times the engine was undamaged.
First why would it take two races to find this damaged hose? Hmm, you guys need to look at your racing program. Secondly, I don't want a race engine to go into a protect mode. If I was in a championship race, National Title on the line, with a half lap to go and lost oil pressure I'd want to option to continue to run hard and trash the motor. For a pleasure motor sure it would be nice to have, but in a race boat you need to be able to continue to run. Again, it comes all comes down to is this a sport or a hobby.
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Old 12-19-2002, 12:11 PM
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well put, ha ha now even the motors are telling racers how to race. That protect mode is there because Gm owns the motors. What next speed governor like at the kiddy go cart track. Trying to make this a hobby that anyone can afford is a joke. There are a lot cheaper hobbies, if you can't afford it to do it right just admit it.
 
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Old 12-19-2002, 12:36 PM
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Thanks Robert.

Mr Velocity,
There was nothing "wrong" with our program. We are always trying different things. Some worked, some didn't. The two different occasions we had water hose problems was actually caused by two different problems. Regardless, it won't happen again on that boat.
As for having a motor go into "protect mode" in a race, I have to admit, if we could have continued, we would have. Of course that mindset was based on the fact that it wasn't my motor and I wasn't the one who would pay for the rebuild. Ok, I admit... I said lots of bad words when we got shut down, but it allowed us to make minor repairs and come back to race the second race rather than sit on the wall as a professional spectator the rest of the week. Let's be honest with ourselves. We're racers. Whe tend to throw any/all economical sense out the hatch as soon as the green flag drops. I've been there myself, only to ask myself after the race, (which I didn't finish anyway), "Why the hell did I do that!" If I was a race team owner with a limited budget, (as many of us are), and saw the temp needle moving into no-mans land, I'd have to really think about "trashing" my motor and possibly ending my season. There is a big difference in the owners cost in leasing a motor compared to buying one. I haven't seen the new $ figures yet, but the GM Vortec guys are really making an impact on our sport. I'm sure they realize the R&D and product advertising they are gaining from APBA racing is worth something. I'm also sure they want more people running their motor package so I don't see them pricing themselves out of offshore racing right after they got in.
Some may see it differently, but I would rather save the money now and deal with a worst case scenario of losing a race due to "protect mode" with everything still intact than to spend big money on major motor repairs later.

Besides, do you really think you can go WFO for 5 miles with no oil pressure?
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Old 12-19-2002, 12:41 PM
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Hey Troutly, Where's the Popcorn??
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Old 12-19-2002, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff
Trying to make this a hobby that anyone can afford is a joke.
Is it?
I think you may be surprised at how many of us don't make big bucks, yet we overcome narrow mindedness and get out there and do it.
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Old 12-19-2002, 01:14 PM
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Hi Gordo: I got a question about
The Auto shut down, Im not going
into details but if and when the
motor shuts down from overheating
or oil pressure how long after
the repairs are made can the
motor be reset and who has to do
the reset.
Mike J.
 
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Old 12-19-2002, 02:09 PM
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Gordo, No offense but you don't try different things at a race. You try them testing and you use what has been tested and proven to work in a race. Most teams just don't test enough in a controlled environment. Also you don't need big bucks to have a successful program. It comes down to the team. How many teams know the CG of their boat or even know how to calculate it? How many teams keep detailed records of every change made to the boat and the affect that change had on handling, acceleration and speed? How many teams keep track of actual miles run in a race and exact fuel used? How many teams also have recorded their weigh in / weigh out weights for every race? How many teams know what to do with this info? These are just a few of the things that differ between "professionals" and "hobbyists". None of this costs money, just a few cents for a pencil and paper.
You yourself said "Let's be honest with ourselves. We're racers. Whe tend to throw any/all economical sense out the hatch as soon as the green flag." This is something that you need to decide before the race. If you need the points to win that national title then you need to decide before the race you're willing to destroy the motor. If you don't need the points then you'll pull back. In St Pete in 01 Zipp had run away from the field with a 3/4 lap lead on the second place boat. Instead of easing up he kepting pushing hard only to break. WHY??? Wouldn't a racer say "ok I have a comfortable lead, let's make sure we finish." This is what seperates those like JT, for example, from most of us.

Having said all that, I must admit that we all sometimes get carried away and go for it when we shouldn't or don't need to. The last write-up about our team in PB was titled "Woulda, coulda, shoulda" after the 01 worlds. So I've been there. But the decision whether or not to kill a motor should be given to the team, not preset by engine manufaturer.

As for the guys on the Merc truck, they are the best!!!! They are always willing to help.
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Old 12-19-2002, 02:17 PM
  #38
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There always has to be competition, and merc may always be the big player. Who knows?

But let's face it, once the Vortec engines get a little older and prove themselves they will get cheaper. They will become mass produced and the long blocks will be readily available. Soon after that Merc will be selling these motors, and pride how good there new motors are. Then they will go out and develop a high performance 6.0 or a 496 that is just a derrivative of the original GM engine.

GM is the real brains behind these powerhouses that we have in all our boats. Let's give credit where credit is due. What do all of you call your motors? I don't know about you, but I call an HP 500 a Chevy engine. Don't mean to offend, believe me I like Merc.
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Old 12-19-2002, 02:29 PM
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The Merc. truck at the race is a must for us all. True they are there to make a proffit but they have saved most of us more than once buy having a part we needed ASAP.I truely apreaciate there presance at every race and we tell them every time!
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Old 12-19-2002, 03:42 PM
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How many teams know the CG of their boat or even know how to calculate it? How many teams keep detailed records of every change made to the boat and the affect that change had on handling, acceleration and speed? How many teams keep track of actual miles run in a race and exact fuel used? How many teams also have recorded their weigh in / weigh out weights for every race? How many teams know what to do with this info?

I dont want to sound like I am trying to start an arguemant, but what does the weigh in and weigh out info help with? Always eager to learn.
Tommy
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