Moby Praises Suddam.....what a tool....
 

I'd like to see this chump on the front lines looking death in the eye.....ofcourse he would not fire his weapon because the spent brass may endager the Lupatile Ant, native to the baron Iraqi Desert.....

I think some of these Entertainers need to caome back to earth......

Check this out:

http://wnd.com/new/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30345

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Let Eminem beat the chit outta him:D :D

Link doesn't work

speaking of tools.. what's up allan?

Well....if I gotta be a tool, I'll be one of those big a$$ jack hammers.....:D :D :D

Sorry about the link not working, I am pretty much computer illiterate. Gottahaveit's post does not include the part where MTV sources say thet Moby does not drive or ride in a car becasue of the "damage" it causes to the environment......Didn't REM do a video on a crowded highway for "Everybody hurts", or what ever it is called. Wait, that's different, then when he was making $$ "damaging" the environment was not such a bad thing.....HeHeHe.......what a clown;)

He's still a freak for not driving in a car !!!
I've got to go throw my Moby cd away now !!!:D

Well looky here......I thought Cat-man may show up on an apparent coffee buzz............:D :D

Hey 26, don't bother, if I had to pick my entertainers by their personal stances and actions, I'd be down to The Lion King and Ted Nugent.....:D ;) ;)

Chuck, I think you should send that CD to packinair for a ride in his microwave.:eek: :D

Another HYPOCRITICAL Hollywood type. Let's see...he has a CD hugh? Well, HOW did teh cd's get to the stores to be sold?...TRUCKS would be my guess...And were these cd's encased in plastic?...And was there ink used in printing them?...What an IDIOT! Do as I say not as I do.:rolleyes:

That's some funny chit...:D :D :D


Ted for President!!! He would get my vote!!

I second the nomination of Ted for President!!!!!!:D

Ted has my vote:cool:

Allan,
thats a good one...Ted gets my vote for president!

Lee, Mike ,
Yes I do have a Moby cd...he had alot to do with the Techno movement. I really enjoy that type of music.

I think it all started with Rush Limbo and his tendency to slease under the bar of logic. I heard a piece on the radio today attacking the characters of all of the actors who have spoken out against the so called war. All they say is lame personal attacks against the people questioning their credibility instead of applying reasoning to the logic of their statements.

I think Hussein is a scumbag too, but Rumsfield and company are the ones who helped him gas his people in the first place. How have we come to such a state that questioning what is going on is somehow unpatriotic and unthinking jumping on the bandwagon without even considering the facts from all sides has become the norm? Why is what is going on so obvious to the rest of the world, yet we just result to name calling instead of considering all the facts? The lives of our children as well as the lifestyle we are accustomed to are at stake. Doesn't it deserve intelligent consideration?

Moby's statement makes sense to me as a start of an intelligent discussion. The fact that he does not drive a car as his way of making a difference has nothing to do with what he was quoted saying on this thread. The fact that I am trying to burn up all the gas I can so that there is no more oil to fight over at least makes it more fun for me.;) Moby said what many others could not get heard; "The Chicken Hawks who are thumping for war have never been in a war themselves." As a matter of public record Bush, Cheny, Rumsfeld, etc. all have flimsy excuses as to why they skipped out when called to duty. Those who have are against it, those who look like they are going to profit from it are for it. Doesn't that even deserve looking into?

Who is this moby DICK anyway? :D

Quote from Tom:
"As a matter of public record Bush, Cheny, Rumsfeld, etc. all have flimsy excuses as to why they skipped out when called to duty. Those who have are against it, those who look like they are going to profit from it are for it. Doesn't that even deserve looking into?"

I went and fought and I am not against what Bush is doing.

Vote for Ted!!!!!Kill it and Grill It!!!!!

If we get Iraq hot enough will the sand turn to glass?if the sand turns to glass will it reflect the sun back into space reversing global warming?????

The Hollywood types passing judgment Christ how many even graduated from High School??

It’s really funny they Liberals even mention War records, When Their own Prince the King of all American Traitor’s:

Mr Slime ball himself who between Anti American Protests Was a student at the KGB recruitment center at Oxford, and a Guest of the Communist party chairman in Czechoslovakia.

Then went on to Moscow for a stay with no Money at the Height of the Cold War

Let’s not forget algore after photographing the wounded and asking !! Gee I bet that Hurt! Got out of the Army Early (after 41/2 months of a 12 month tour)to go to divinity school where he flunked out and never returned to the Army.

Old time Democrats were at least good Americans and could be debated with, now they are agents of the Communists, Half Communists, Stalinists and the Royalists come to set up a system OVER the people. I despise them and pray that they fail
:mad:

See what I mean. Limbo right under the logic with name calling.:D

Europeans are elitist *******s because they don't agree, except England who should just get rid of all their people and keep Tony Blair

Middle easterners are all camel jockeys who deserve to die, well except isreal who is totally innocent in all of it.

Orientals are barbarian communists

south americans and africans are heathen backword sub humans

Mexicans are stealing all our jobs

Canadians just suck for calling Bush an idoit

Lets just nuke them all with pre-emptive strikes. They all sooner or later will hate us anyway.

As long as were at it lets lock up everyone in America who doesn't march along as enemy combatants. Then we can all have a good laugh and call them names all we want. John Ashcroft should be the one to decide - wait a minute he already is.

And this is the level of debate on our current world situation that at least everyone agrees really sucks. I for one am concerned that while they have everyone name calling instead of thinking and questioning the world is getting worse. I would be asking the same questions if Christ was running the show, but then again my guess is he would be called a liberal too with all that "Love the Neighbor" nonsense. He went AWOL for 30 years and refused to go along with the government at the time. Who cares what label you want to use when so much is at stake. When are we going to wake up and start thinking about what is going on?

When are we going to wake up and start thinking about what is going on
==============================================
"going on" we are at War TOM just in case you have not noticed!! BTW most of it is traceable to Democrats.

Now with that said if I were a National Socialist Democrat/Liberal/Fifth columnist I would be quiet!

Your List is pretty factual for the racist Democrats.

I am still awaiting a Huge Apology from The Main and real Racists the Black Caucas, NAACP, the Democratic Party, Hilla Beast and so on.

You mentioned Israel you have a problem with them ??

Re: OK Conservatives...
 

Neither, both present flaws in argument that are too vast to list as they both argue from a personal interest point of view. The fact is neither Tom, Steve, Moby, you or I can speak objectively about these events because none of us have the facts. In WWII Hitler spoke much propaganda as all governments do. The facts we know today lead all rational humans to the conclusion that his actions were wrong and needed to be stopped. Only time will tell us what history will show of these events. The argument that the US helped Hussein gas his people is utterly up surd. If I make a kitchen knife and even if I inform you it can kill someone, I am not responsible for a death when you choose to plunge that knife into another human, only you are.

The truth is we do not live in a direct democracy; we do not get to vote on every action our government takes. We do have the right to discuss and object however the media allows for disproportionate voice to be heard from those that are famous. And far too often that voice takes the form of ignorance. A great example is Hollywood's objection to animal testing while simultaneously supporting AIDS research. You cannot have one without the other. These issues are far to complex for most people to comprehend, the variables are endless. The fact that someone looks good in a bikini, can sing a song or can play a president on TV is not a qualification to deal with foreign policy.


back to boating as I'm sure this thread will be history in short order.

Cat and Tom I lived/Worked over there! Your credentials Please!!

So I am very aware of the situation in the middle-east traveling around that place for years, Dinned and had conversations with American Ambassadors, Royalty and the like, Forming my own opinions BTW very much in line with the current leadership.

Really not needing the Liberal press and their lackeys to think for me.


The window in my second floor glass cutting room gave me a clear view of the Basra Iraq area I even watched some bombing .Also I know of the nice Iraqis conduct in Occupied Kuwait some of my friends were resistance, with family slaughtered.


I have also been a world traveler and have seen the news from outside America and as a general rule try to post only facts.

You guys have a lot of nerve to post anything about war records considering that of your pseudo God which I posted already, Talk about hypocrites.

Now again I ask what is the problem with Israel?? Common experts I want to be enlightened.


:D

well said Donzi38
this thread has gotten way too heated:hothead:

Cat how are you.?? Today liberals are out there. The old JFK Democrats have many good points. I can easily see there point of view. The whole Picking on the rich is getting old. a Fireman making 45,000 and a Nurse making 45,000 is considered Rich by the Liberals standpoint. Living very consertive and no kids that is ok and It surely depends on what part of the nation we live in and the whole children factor. I realze that you live in TX and probbalky have a problem with BUSH.. Thats Fine But I am sure glad we have GB in there instead of GORE... Take care Cat always fun to Debate with you.

Whoa.....looks like this thing has grown some legs since last night!!

Tom, you say that "the lives of our children as well as the lifestyle we are accustomed to are at stake". EXACTLY!!!!!!!! These radical loonies hate Americans, period. They want us dead. They want out children dead. They want our economy in ruins. They want our structures leveled. They want our heritage forgotten. THEY WANT OUR FREEDOM DESTROYED!!!! They base their lives upon their hatred for you and I. They burn our flags in public protests, they bomb our embassy's, they knock down our buildings for God's sake!!!!!!

There are more "9-11's" to come unless we stop these hate filled rulers. They are a great danger to humanity. We were apathetic and unrealistic in the 8 years prior to 9-11. It's fact, we screwed up. Who's fault is not an issue anymore, we all know how that unfolded. It is MUCH more risky to sit back and do nothing than to assume certain risks of war and act first this time, instead of acting second by cleaning up 16 square acres of WTC debris and bodies again. We are in a bad situation, and as someone intelligently stated above, no one wants us in this situation, it's a bad deal, but you can't run from controversy and sweep it under the rug like Clinton did, look where that got us. You can't just let these tyranists reak havoc world wide.....which is thier goal.

Think of this aweful potential reality........Imagine if these physcopaths get their hands on a nuke!!! Imagine if 9-11 included nuclear winter......MAN.......I just gave myself chills......:eek: :eek:

Furthermore, I do not believe this is about oil. If that were the case, Bush would call Sudamm and say, "Hey, we want all the oil that we need times 2, at "X" ammount of $$. In exchange, you can run rampant, build your bombs and try to obliterate the Middle East. The US won't stand in your way, we will not bother you at all. Do as you please, we want your oil and that is it."

What would Sadamm say to this......?? "ABSOLUTELY!!!!"

This is about trying to pulverize the evil on the globe, to be sure we can preserve freedom for all mankind. If you question our intentions, you need to read the history books and learn howmany countries we have salvaged, bailed out, rebuilt, protected and financed in the last 80 years in an effort to do just what we are trying to do here......preserve and establish democracy, freedom and mankind. Unfortunately, we are the only country on the globe that can defeat us, and with goofy bastards like Moby, that seems more and more realistic with each passing day.

GO USA!!!!!! Some of these fruits need to come back to reality....

You know they say countries fold from inside. Also I do not see any LIberals!!!! and I mean Liberals Not good Democrats !! asking for a Tax increase.??? My frineds who work at FORD on the line and do over a 100 a year are no Democrats they realize what is it like to work for thier money and see what BS it is when they get their checks and see the money taken out for Taxes ...CRAZY

It is nice to see that so many are concerned with what is happening in the world right now. Considering that we are talking about weopons of mass destruction in the hands of pretty questionable people it can affect not only our way of life but escalate to affecting life itself. I agree Donzi 38 (and many others) have presented strong arguements and that is a great start. I do not agree with RCM255 as the debate has not gotten heated enough. We perhaps cannot solve the world problems, but if we acept that it is too complicated and do nothing we are leaving our future to the chance that those currently in charge have our best interest at heart and know what they are doing. Personally I don't feel they are smarter or more qualified than myself and all of us to make such decisions without all of our input.

Steve 1, it is great that you have direct experience in the middle east and other parts of the world. You probably have some great insight to share. Since you asked where I am coming from and specifically about Isreal let me please share my background as a point of reference as to why I say some of the things that I do. my main point is that we cannot just parrot what the media tells us and resort to name calling; we must raise the level of debate to honest sharing of how we feel, why we feel that way, and what we think should be done.

As an ex monk, I have spent 44 years in deep contemplation as well as extensive research into the similarities and differences in the major religions of the world. I have had deep debates with scholars, mystics, clergy, lay people, etc. from all of the five major faiths and have published software that compares the similarities in beliefs held on a wide range of topics from what God is to how we should act in a number of situations including practicing our faith, getting along with others, introspecting, peace, love, what direct experience of contacting God is like, etc. My bottom line conclusion is that if we knew more about the beliefs of others and honored tham instead of defining them by our ignorance of them we would find 99% in common and no need to kill, subjugate or convert them into agreement with our own belief. I would love to share my research, feelings or just sit with anyone in your own environment and learn more about your beliefs. As Donzi38 said so well, the current world situation is very complex; religous ignorance and intolerance is definately a major component.

Concurrent to religious study I also did extensive study of brain research, learning theory, consciousness research, and studies on how we interpret/create reality from the stimulus that reaches our minds. I have had the pleasure to be associated with some of the top minds in the field and ended up teaching "accelerated learning" theories to professors, school teachers, corporate trainers, management, students, workers, etc. My father was one of the pioneers in "individualized learning" and holds many documented records in taking students from one tested level to higher tested levels in the shortest period of time. Bottom line; everybody learns differently and enhansing the self esteem in the learner is the most important aspect of learning. The responsibility of learing is the teachers, not the students and failure to learn is not the fault of the learner. Although some of us are certified genious and some have limited capacity to learn for various physical reasons, most "normal" people have a very similar capacity to understand even extremely complex topics giving the right teaching methodology for that particular lerner.

Back to Isreal - I was privilidged to work with some of the most genious programmers in the world. They were extremely bright and well trained by the Isreali military intelligence. Most Isrealis I met were loving, passionate, concerned, forgiving, wonderful people who also feel that their own governmet has a major reponsibility in the current crisis they are facing. In association with them and previous to that association I either implimented or taught how to create internet infrastructure for many of the top organizations in the world. Clients included Visa, PeopleSoft, Network Associates, HP, Cisco, Baan, Ford, Nortel, Deloitte Consulting, KPMG, Lucent, Sage, Ericsson, Fidelity Investments, British Telecom, NSA, AT&T, Charles Schwab, Nokia, Siemens, EDS, and many more worldwide. Combined with my other interests this afforded me to have contacts and visits throughout the world. It also afforded me the time to visit Mosques, Churches, Temples, Universities, businesses, and neighborhoods throughout the world and really get to study the various cultures. As someone who approached people with love. respect, and a very sincere interest in understanding their culture and beliefs I was able to gain insight into many aspects of each society from sources as divergent as corporate executives, common workers, homeless, drug addicts, religious (from normal adherents to fanatics), non religious, etc. Unfortunately at the time I was not so interested in boating and am not blessed with a list of boaters. ;)

Although I have never entered the political arena, I have a keen interest in the workings of the power structures of society and share a basic mistrust of all politicians and the press which is so often only presenting propaganda to sway public opinion. I have found that the same mistrust is common throughout the world. The only way to get as good of a picture as you can is to (with an open yet critical mind) gather as much information as we can from every source possible. I find the manipulation of public opinion both fascinating and frightening and it has gone on for as long as we humans have communicated, yet the stakes were never as high as they are today.

The current "Liberal press" myth (and all of the other associated name calling routines) is especially amazing since the logic of the statement is so amazingly twisted that it is inconceivable that thinking people would fall for it. My previous posts on this thread were an attempt to point out the absurdity of name calling by making what should have been obviously illogical statements similar to the other ones we so often hear. The format of debate has been manipulated by the supposed "Liberal Press" to get as many people as possible to fall into the unthinking trap of allowing pundits who seem so intelligent(and perhaps are, but nonetheless are using outdated learning theories to "teach" their point of view) to define the opposite view of their's by name calling definitions instead of actually finding out what the other side believes. For example I have never met a person who calls himself "Liberal" that says anyone making $45,000 is rich, yet statements like that are thrown out by non "Liberals" as facts about "Liberal" thinking. Why don't we all just define our own beliefs and give others the chance to define theirs? We might find there is so much in common between us that we just might find some answers to these extremely important issues facing us today.

I don't pretend to know the answers, but I share a tremendous concern that the very real and pressing danger that we all face needs to be resolved before it is too late. Can we please just share our feelings, respect and learn from those who do not share ours, and try to see if we can make a difference?

Tom, that is perhaps the best constructed post I have read on this forum. There are things you have written that I disagree with, but that was one heck of a rundown. I find your information on learning curves quite educating! Well worded my friend.....

I am certainly not as well traveled and read as you, but I still feel we need to act aggresively to remain a free society. I am not so sure we are in a situation where we are trying to convert beleifs, I feel we are in survival mode. My concern and conviction is that the further we look, infact, will reveal more bad than it will good with respect to our countries enemies. We are talking about people who are practicing genecide......They are and have been torturing human lives on a Biblical scale. They will not change, and they want us all dead. And they are aggressively seeking nukes.....our most horrific nightmare. Imagine a nuclear fallout on our beloved soil....makes me sick to my stomach. It is my strong belief that this is a certainty unless we act to impeede this process. God Speed to our troops and leaders, although as you said Tom (and I agree), I find myself having a basic mistrust for the politicians and the press, some more than others ofcourse.......

Oh, one more thing, I feel that generally everyone seems to respect others opinions on OSO, and I find this thread no different. People can agree to disagree and still be passionate about their position. Just look at Cat and I......we are probably long lost twin brothers......(only about 30 year age difference!!)

:D :D :D

Allan4,
Thank you for such a great compliment. I was afraid I was seeming arogant and am glad it was not percieved that way.

As regards the feeling that we must stop these terrorists and the countries that are such a huge danger, I agree whole heartedly. We need to do something NOW to turn the situation around.

Although I prefer to just hang out and talk about boating; I feel for myself and so many others that we also all need a chance to express our feelings about the world right now. Just like so many of us, I am often sick to my stomach when I think about the horrible way people are being treated.

My only real issue that I feel so very strongly about is that I can no longer stand for mis-characterizations of others because it is making things worse. Liberals are not demons any more than Conservatives. Although I don't agree with Orin Hatch from Utah in both his religious beliefs or some of his political beliefs; I so respect his way of working with those of opposite beliefs that I would vote for him if I lived there. Orin never resorts to name calling or defining the other side wrongly. He presents a very clear message about his own beliefs and I honor his passion for them. I think Paul Wellstone was very much the same and equally highly regarded by his peers.

In terms of the middle east issue, with over a billion people practicing a religion that most of us know so little about, it is wrong to characterize them all as horrible any more than it is to claim all Christians are like the fundamentalist nazis who do so much harm. There are Christian terrorists too, and left wing, right wing, etc. Maybe an OSO member that is a Muslim could enlighten us as to what most of them practice and belief. I don't think we will ever wipe them all out and if we could get along with most of them then maybe the good ones would help us sort out the bad ones.

I would love to hear some considered opinions from Tulsa Larry, Steve 1, Donzi 38, Catmando, and any others who want to express yourselves. Does Timuchin have any input? I don't know his beliefs, but doesn't he live there? This thread was very good for me because it made me decide I am going to get involved instead of just sitting on the sidelines watching it happen.

Now who wants to come out and go for a batboat ride while we still can.:D

Tom, I appreciate your remarks and opinions. It’s apparent that you are stating your beliefs from first hand knowledge and your own studies instead of using the current “sound bites” that a particular political party may be using.

This thread was started as a response to Moby praising Saddam. I have a problem with people such as Moby and others referring to political people who did not fight in Vietnam as “Chicken hawks”. Back in the sixties when I knew I was going to be drafted I considered the choice of going to Canada in order to avoid fighting in a war I did not believe in but decided I would not be able to live with myself if I made that decision, so I went in the Marine Corps and spent thirteen months around the DMZ in ’68 and ’69.

If you consider the number of people that were of the age to go to Vietnam only a very small percentage of that group went, even considering all the people in the military during the Vietnam era you will find only a fraction went into battle. Just because people were of the right age and didn’t go to Vietnam does not make them a “chicken”.
These are just political “sound bites” that serve no other useful purpose than trying to divide our great country.

As far as the threat of Saddam on the free world, I believe it is real and must be stopped. I do not know the extend of the weapons of mass destruction that Iraq has or will soon have, I trust that the Bush administration will reveal with proof what they have before any attack is made. We have spent too many years ignoring the threats of our enemies and now we are at a crisis point trying to make up for lost time. Many pendants say we are ignoring the terrorists and going after Iraq. I do not believe this for one minute and know that the war on terrorism is continuing.

Ok Tom Where do we start?

Well first let’s get this term Liberal* into its proper context and that would cover everything that is wrong in this Country from Morals on down. Look at a problem and there is a Liberal standing there.Using the word only not the meaning.

Second some of us have actual experience in areas of this Debate, while a Christian and a God fearing Man:

I also have attended Islamic Presentation Committee Seminars
And for years awakened to the Sunrise call to Prayer;
And by the same token heard the word Amerkie during fiery Friday noon sermons (always wondered what we were getting blamed for)

My take on it is as follows;
The Religion can be a Trojan horse; also there is no Clerical Hierocracy,
It has a problem relating to the 21st century and is filled with Hypocrisy, Racism. Bigotry. And just plain old Ignorance.

I also heard 85% of the Mosques in America have Saudi money in them that to me is not comforting.

You see it is not up to us to correct their problems but up to the modern Moslems make the necessary changes themselves.

Israel I have not heard one voice speak about the 700,000 Jews who had to leave their property on Arab Land/Countries, Incidentally living there since before Muhammad was his fathers Bad Idea!!

Iraq
I am sure while in deep contemplation you have seen Saddams Torture Chambers, They like to use carpenter tools; saws and drills. Of course to a full Blown Liberal it does not matter either does:
Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, China, N. Korea, S. Africa, etc., etc., many millions more murdered than even in Hitler's (socialist) hell of Nazi Germany. Just more of the beloved Big Government what’s a Million dead verses the beauty of all encompassing government control??

Liberal LOL Ponzi Scheme best describes it !! but your problem is we are on to you.

I try not to know anything about the musicians I listen to or how sausage is made. Might just spoil it all. Anyone hear of Atomic *****wax? As for desert warfare I trained for around Afghanistan time. Dam we were worked up in tank school when they told us they had some good news and some bad news. The bad news was that the soviets would outnumber us by around 6 to 1 in any battle scenario. The good news was is that we have more targets to shoot at than they do. Looking back I am very glad we never mixed it up with a super power in the dirt. Iraq may not be as easy as it was last time. Watch for some strange chit this time, sort of an end run to what is next.

See the debate can be taken to a higher level.

TulsaLarry,
I totally agree with you, especially about the sound bites. I mentioned "Chicken Hawks" myself along with many more rediculous sound bites as an attempt to show the obsurdity of using such statements. I do think those that use that particular bite are referring to not just lack of service, but thumping for war too, but that is the trouble with all of the sound bites, they do not give any meaning to the dialog. I sometimes wonder about our priorities re: Saddam, North Korea, Afganistan, terroroists, etc., but Saddam seems to be going well so far, who knows how to handle the North Korea thing, and overall we are definately taking action on all of them. I do worry that the rest of the world seems to be getting a negative opinion of us and that could affect our ability to get them to help us.

Steve 1,
I'm confused about what a Liberal is. Are you one? How do you define them?

It must have been pretty interesting to visit the Islamic stuff. Did you have a friend who could translate for you, or do you speak their language? Of all the religions I know the least about them. There are some things I just plain cannot fathom, like how they treat women. I don't think I can ever hear an acceptable excuse, but I sure would like to hear one from them. I was a child in Dearborn, MI. The largest Muslim community in the US is there and they always scared me. My guess is that a large percent of American businesses have Saudi and other Muslim money in them and that makes me nervous too. I don't think we can afford to wait for the Muslims to clean up their own mess, we have to do something before it is too late.

The Jews have 2000+ years of being persecuted. After all that no wonder some of them have a chip on their shoulder. I spent a week in Tokyo with a guy once who every time we went to a sushi bar, he would strike up a conversation with the sushi chef if he spoke English. It always went like this: "Do you know where I am from? No. Isreal, do you know where that is? Middle East. Do you know how many people we have? No. 5 million, do you know how many enemies surround us? No. 250 million. You know how strong that would make you?" I don't think he was helping his cause or affectively communicating.

There are so many things I love about Jewish culture. I can't imagine how 2500+ years of persecution would affect me. I also think blacks and Indians have had a pretty bad deal too. No, that doesn't mean I am for quotas or even indian reservations for that matter.

Closest I have ever been to torture anything was I bought an ice cream outside the torture museum in London, but didn't have the stomach to go inside and barf up a perfectly good treat.;) I can't even contemplate how badly we are capable of treating each other, unless you have tried marriage.;)

I'm not sure how Liberals have anything to do with you list of attrocities or what the rest of your post means. Is the definition of a Liberal someone who is a dictator who commits horrible acts? I guess that would explain why so many people use the word in such a hate filled manner.

What does we are on to you mean? Why is that my problem? I am really sorry if I did anything to offend you or whoever else belongs to the "we". I am just trying to raise the level of debate and frankly am excited that I might be able to share something real with my friends.

I think you made many very good points and made me think some new thoughts. Please keep up the dialog. I think you have a lot to contribute.

cpqtim,
Love the part about the musicians and sausages. I was hoping Iraq would be easier this time. Still wish we finished it during Bush 1 when we had the chance and the world behind us.

Tom.....I think most of us would rather sit around an BS about boats. But we also would all like to live disease free until 100, never lose a loved one and be well into the highest tax bracket. But, reality sets in, and not that this is the #1 forum for political discussion, but I think there are a great collection of intelligent people on this site. That is why I spend 99% of my web time here. I think we can cover a broad rang of topics.

I do not think we want to wipe out an entire people, just the evilness among them. This includes domestic terrorists as well. Remember Oak City? I also do not beleive the latest liberal bandwagon that Bush has side stepped the war on terrorists. Because the media decides not to put it on the front page, does not mean it is not still underway. I agree with TulsaLarry. I like Bush because he seems to be a reasonble, good intentioned, stern man. I think that is the guy for the job, one who will worry more about realistic repurcutions than poll-related repurcussions. My .02....again:D

Good info on this thread from all you guys. Learning as well as sharing...........A4

Oh yeah, bat boating.......I got some seat time in a few of these guys via Reindl......Last summer I lived about 3 minutes from his shop. Good guys.........:D :D :D

I'm not sure how Liberals have anything to do with you list of attrocities or what the rest of your post means. Is the definition of a Liberal someone who is a dictator who commits horrible acts? I guess that would explain why so many people use the word in such a hate filled manner
==============================================
Tom you see and know the word Liberal is a Cloak it’s the name these “Useful Idiots” in this country call them selves while toddling along behind their handlers.

Fidel Castro is a another Liberal forget the word communism Its liberalism and all the liberals love him BTW one look at Jesse Jackson and the Hollywood leftists and their fondness for Saddam and fidel

Now Joseph Stalin That was a Great Liberal! He said “Cut the legs of the tall to match the short” Right?

Only in this country the leg cutting is the redistribution of wealth Via Taxation and Social Programs.

Not mentioning the fact that the Prisons are full of Liberals who believe it is ok to acquire wealth without Well lets say “without working for it”. The felon vote LOL!

The Jews well lets say in the last thousand years they bred more for intelligence while their counter part over there married his cousin!

The proof like I said before would be Nobel Laureates in the hard sciences Right??? Between the two groups?