You are so right.(no pun intended)Democrats had the chance to accomplish whatever they wanted when Clinton took office and they squandered it with not figuring out what to do. Looks like the republicans might be doing the same thing now except as regards shooting the SOB. Get it over with and move on to accomplishing things before you wast the whole chance on Saddam and obsession with Clinton.

I would shoot the SOB, make sure he was dead so I didn't have to deal with it any more, cancel the trip to the game because I am too upset, go home and try to figure out - What would Jesus do.

I agree with Catmando - Bush senior should have finished the job when he had the chance and the support of the world. I know it is more complicated than that, but so were the circumstance for Clinton as regards taking out Saddam.

Re: Re: re
 

Whoa Cat, my friend.........

Thanks Risk Taker, that's the first post on this thread worth reading.

Tom, get well soon!!!!!!!!!!! You need to get back to work :D

Catman, take the pill bro ;)

Cat it is right to vent.... Hey if we were all out drinking can you imagine how it would be??? Heck we would be up till 6.00AM but I am sure it would be fun.

Cat
 

I've already explained that GB senior couldn't do the job the first time because he didn't have the world support. The mission was to prevent Iraq from conquering Kuwait then and that's it. That all the resources that were allocated at the time.

America had no understanding of the threat Sadaam posed against us pre Sept. 11. In addition - Sadaam agreed to piece by signing the Gulf War Treaty. (You know, the treaty that you feel he hasn't breached enough to justify our use of force today).

If you think GB senior should have gotten him then, then why do you think it is so bad to do it NOW after Sadaam has clearly breached the treaty, he has spent a decade in deceit, supporting terrorism, and seeking chemical, biological and perhaps nuclear weapons.

I saw two really big buildings full of people fall to the ground didn't you????

Here are some of the UN Resolutions regarding the Iraq invasion of Kuwait

http://eserver.org/govt/gulf-war/un-...ns-660-666.txt

gopher://gopher.undp.org/00/undocs/scd/scouncil/s90/32

The Idea in 1990 was to expel the Iraqis from Kuwait only! The collation would have shattered if they had invaded Baghdad.

BTW Lefties; Mr. Bush is well liked by the Kuwaitis they made him a citizen and there are all kind of Bush Landmarks there.
Behind where I lived (Shaab Kuwait) there was also a beautiful new Bush High rise

Top Ten Campus Follies of 2002
(Editor's note: The Young America's Foundation, a group that promotes conservative ideas on the nation's college campuses, released this "top-ten" list of the most shameful/and or ridiculous campus events of 2002.)

10. Following a Young America's Foundation event at Ithaca College featuring Bay Buchanan, homosexual and feminist student activists demanded that the event be declared "biased" by the school's Bias-related Incident Committee. Although the speech was not ruled biased, committee hearings to determine whether an "incident" occurred are held behind closed doors and the accused is not informed of the committee's decision unless it determines that the student or student group should be referred to the judiciary committee. Furthermore, discussions on changing the definition of "biased" are also held in private.

9. An American University student was pinned down and handcuffed outside a Tipper Gore speech by plainclothes campus police who refused to identify themselves. The student was charged with stealing Gore's intellectual property by videotaping her speech, which was open to the public. The school claims that it made an announcement barring videotape recording of the event even though no such prohibition was on the flyers advertising the speech and print reporters covered the speech. The student had been critical of the university's president in the past and voiced concern over the $31,000 lecture fee the university was paying Gore. As a result of the event, the student was placed on probation and threatened with expulsion.

8. Vanderbilt University renamed its Confederate Memorial Hall dormitory to Memorial Hall, because the word "Confederate" makes some people uncomfortable. Also, Vanderbilt Professor Jonathan David Farley, an assistant professor of mathematics, wrote in the Tennessean that Confederates were "cowards masquerading as civilized men" and that "every Confederate soldier deserved not a hallowed resting place at the end of his days but a reservation at the end of the gallows." On his web page, Professor Farley has a picture of himself posing next to a poster of Marxist Ernesto "Che" Guevara, whom Farley says he considers a hero.

7. Incoming freshman at the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill were required to read Approaching the Qur'an: The Early Revelations . According to UNC Chancellor James Moeser, the book was "chosen in the wake of September 11th ," which was a "great opportunity to have a conversation on the teachings of one of the world's great religions." It is unlikely a book discussing Christianity will be chosen for next year's freshmen.

6. The new guidelines for teaching history in New Jersey public schools fail to mention America's Founding Fathers, the Pilgrims, or the Mayflower. Furthermore, the term "war" has been replaced with "conflict" and most of the references to inhumane treatment that many American soldiers endured in foreign wars during the 20th century have been omitted.

5. Officials at Lewis Elementary School in Barstow, CA, barred students from playing "cops and robbers" on the playground until they could determine if the game is dangerous. The school's principal threatened a third-grader with suspension if he did not stop playing the game. The school district's superintendent said officials want to establish guidelines for the game.

4. Harvard University re-invited controversial poet Tom Paulin after withdrawing the original invitation because students had complained of his statements comparing U.S.-born settlers in the West Bank with Nazis and how they "should be shot dead." The school reportedly re-issued the invitation to show support for free speech. Earlier in the year, however, two editors of Harvard Business School's student newspaper were reprimanded for publishing a cartoon in which they used the term "morons," criticizing the school's computer system.

3. According to the school newsletter, a Santa Monica elementary school principal banned the game of tag because "there is a 'victim' or 'It,'" which creates self-esteem issues among weaker and slower children, and "the oldest or biggest child usually dominates."

2. Texas school board administrators toned down the curriculum that teaches Texas independence by suppressing "us vs. them" perspectives in lessons about the Battle of the Alamo and the state's independence from Mexico. According to the social studies curriculum manager of the Houston Independent School District, the school board administrators made the change because they don't want "Hispanic kids, or any kids, to feel like we're teaching a bias approach" to the history of Texas.

#1. Bucknell University held a forum in response to articles regarding free speech on campus that appeared in the conservative campus paper, The Counterweight . The dean of students and the assistant dean of students for multicultural affairs were in attendance. During the forum, students called the articles "hate speech" and the dean of students said that he was sure the editor-in-chief of the paper intended to hurt people by publishing the articles. The school administrators made no attempt to protect The Counterweight staffers in attendance at the forum who were being threatened by other students, nor did they reprimand the students making the threats. In fact, the multicultural affairs dean commented that the staffers were "lucky" the offended students at the forum were "such good kids" or the staffers would be risking physical harm. The dean of students threatened to have public safety officials remove the staffers from the forum if they did not leave on their own.

I think that all of the items mentioned were fairly accurate except the religion one is more the athiest viewpoint than mainstream liberal.

I think the liberal view is that the country was founded on the principle that the church was too involved in Europe and safeguards need to be in place to keep it from happening here. Although prayer in school seems harmless to those in the majority, it does impose a huge social pressure on those who do not agree. Pretty hard for an 8 year old kid to stand up for his Hindu beliefs when outnumbered. Lets keep religion out of it. If a group wants to do their own schooling, great, just don't expect us all to pay for it.

I could be wrong and corrected, but I think that more clearly expresses the liberal view.

Thank You Steve
 

Cool to see the wording in a UN Resolution too. I couldn't get the second link to come up.

I'd sure like to read the current UN Resolution.

I havn't read every post but I have read enough to see that for Dems and Republicans it is always us against them. Is it worth considering that neither party has a mojority segment of voting Americans? Neither side could win a national election without the people that decide almost every election. The middle. The people without the fanatical attachments to a party. The people that can compromise and take the best that both sides have to offer, or can put aside the differences they have with a canidate from the other side and chose him/her. Our country was born from compromise and acceptence and a knowlege that this is the only way a free society can exist and flourish. With 200,000 of our volunteer troops waiting to free another country from tyranny, I think it doesn't matter who started what or when as long as we finnish it now. Not later. We have always been liberators. Get used to it. We made our country the strongest in the world for a reason. Make freedom ring. It does a body good.

Washed Away

Very good summation.

I agree, best post of all.

Washed Away, great points. Now why is it the two parties constantly put up candidates that tend to be more towards their respective poles, right or left. Seems to me the smart thing would for someone to promote a candidate that was truly moderate dthat embraced what many in the general public believe. I think the closest to this so far has been John McCain.

Yeah, I'm getting pretty tired of this thread as well......HeHeHe. there are some responses I was going to make, but holy heck, we have really gone indepth with this topic, perhaps more than any other political thread in which I have partaken. Seems like this may be a good place to wrap it up, obviously you all will have to decide this, merely a suggestion.

Tom, I disagree with several of your conserv/lib comparisons, but I'm too damn tired to get into. I'm gonna get back to boating stuff......for now;) ;)

Proud American Citizen checking out......see ya fellas. A4

Oopps, one thing, McCain is a great American hero and a great man, but he was too left for most conservatives, in so doing lost to GW. Infact, he porbably would have laid the smack down on Gore pretty good, butter than Bush did......and Bush DID win..................:D :D :D (relax, relax.............HeHeHe.....)

No problem.......after the OSO party in Miami, the bars never shut down. That's a problem in itself for us left coast guys. :D :D :D

But I'm still sick. What am I supposed to do tomorrow? I promise I will be well by Friday.;)

OK, If you insist, lets all agree to vote for McCain (with a moderate Democrat running mate) ;) and call the thread dead. I already said he has my vote. Would have loved to hear the comparisons on other topics though (sex, drugs, censorship, etc.). It was starting to get interesting.

McCain never… especially paired with a Liar-rat! Tell you what you leftie nutcases can do Put on your Hemp Suits and visit Fidel or Saddam and savor the liberal utopia and it’s all encompassing government

Steve, you crack me up man!!!!

Tom, take some echinacea and oil of oregano. That'll kill that crap in your body, maybe knock a little sense into you....HAHAHAHA.....just kdding man, just kidding......

Nort......6am is a cake walk.....it's the next day that gets ya:D :D :D

I'm on the road to recovery
 

Just got my hands on some Zithromax. I'll be better tomorrow!!

Dr. Didn't want to give it to me. He said my symptoms are viral, not bacterial. I had to smack him around a bit....

Never heard of oil of oregano. Tried to smoke it when I was a kid though.;) ;)

My doctor has me on robotussin with codien and belladona. I remember seeing a Chris Rock show where he joked about poor black people taking robotussin for everything because they could not afford doctors.

Marginally better today. Might just have to go back to the doctor. He said I should be much better today and well by Friday if I had what he thinks I have.

Found two other threads on OSO that spell out what I have against conservatives.

Really strange sex laws is a link if you click it.

30 Years is also a link.

"Fact" is that liberal places do not pass such laws. SEX, now there is the topic that we should be most concerned about.;)

Tom,

The link about the laws is a joke. They are either urban legend or archaic, unenforceable laws. Do you know the only vehicle that can legally break the speed limit? A postal vehicle, law dates back to the pony express or some such nonsense. The 30 year thread unfortunately is the result of the not in my neighborhood mentality from both sides of the aisle, combined with some punk DA that wants to be famous. But generally I agree, the religious far right gets way too much attention from the Republican Party. Look at this board and how popular the uncensored section is and how many people screamed when they had to pay to see it. yet this board, I believe, is predominantly Republican. Sex is very popular with the conservatives or at least it is with this one. :D

Yea
 

I'm in agreement with that. I don't think republicans are as square as they present themselves to be when it comes to sex. I think it's just a do as I say not as I do kind of thi

Yea
 

I'm in agreement with that. I don't think republicans are as square as they present themselves to be when it comes to sex. I think it's just a do as I say not as I do kind of thi

Yea
 

I'm in agreement with that. I don't think republicans are as square as they present themselves to be when it comes to sex. I think it's just a do as I say not as I do kind of thing.

And to think of all those babes being hidden under all those robes so we can only see thier eyes. That's reason enough for us to liberate Iraq. And they want to stone them for exposing their head. I say lets get stoned and liberate the whole body.;)

Source: The Collins English Dictionary © 1998 HarperCollins Publishers
liberate [lbaret]
vb. (tr.)
1. to give liberty to; make free.
2. to release (something. esp a gas) from chemical combination during a chemical reaction.
3. to release from occupation or subjugation by a foreign power.
4. to free from social prejudices or injustices.
5. Euphemistic or facetious. to steal.


source: The Collins English Dictionary © 1998 HarperCollins Publishers
liberal [lbaral, lbral]
adj.
1. relating to or having social and political views that favour progress and reform.
2. relating to or having policies or views advocating individual freedom.
3. giving and generous in temperament or behaviour.
4. tolerant of other people.
5. abundant; lavish: a liberal helping of cream.
6. not strict; free: a liberal translation.
7. of or relating to an education that aims to develop general cultural interests and intellectual ability.
n.
8. a person who has liberal ideas or opinions.
[from Latin liberalis of freedom, from liber free]


Source: The Collins English Dictionary © 1998 HarperCollins Publishers
conservative [kansuvatv]
adj.
1. favouring the preservation of established customs, values, etc., and opposing innovation.
2. of, characteristic of, or relating to conservatism.
3. tending to be moderate or cautious: a conservative estimate.
4. conventional in style or type: a conservative suit.
5. Med. (of treatment) designed to alleviate symptoms. Compare {radical [sense 4]}.
6. Physics. (of a field of force, system, etc.) doing work by moving an object or particle but being independent of the path along which the object or particle is displaced: electrostatic fields of force are conservative.
n.
7. a person who is reluctant to change or consider new ideas; conformist.
8. a supporter or advocate of conservatism.
adj., n.
9. a less common word for {preservative}.

Re: Yea
 

Don't ask don't tell. The religious right might find out we are LYING to them. Larry Flint already exposed many of them as hypocrits. Seems the ones thumping the loudest had the most to hide. Are you insinuating that republicans are not dealing with "truth" or "facts"? Sounds somewhat misleading to me.

Less government

less laws controlling corporations

states rights, get the feds out of state issues

so many "real" laws against sex it is way too many to list. nude beaches, many acts of consensual sex, prostitution, pornography, etc. all illegal because of conservatives.

California legalized pot for medicinal use, feds shut it down. evil drug supports terrorism you know, even if grown at home.

Conservatives pass restrictive laws imposing their religious bigotry on the citizens while advocating getting the government out of everything. Then they vacation in "Liberal" places to enjoy themselves. They backpedal on this and say "not me" but the "truth" is they sold out to the religious right and go right along with them while they trample our freedom. Let them go much longer and all the women will have to cover their entire bodies so nothing evil is exposed. Why does this sound like what we are trying to "liberate"?

OK I think I see the problem. Too much pot and you have become delusional. Do you see what women wear today? Look at party cove. This would not have been possible 40 years ago. Social behavior swings like a pendulum. There will always be pressures back towards the other side but this nation has steadily become more open with sex. Look at what is in an R rating today vs. even 15 years ago. As far as the drug thing goes I can't help you, we will have to agree to disagree as I do not favor legalization. I do find it funny that the dems are the ones pushing for making smoking illegal everywhere but want pot legal. That's logical :rolleyes:

With a sore throat I can't smoke, it is the codiene in the legal drug.;) pardon me while I go take another hit of it.

About the smoking thing. it is not illegal to smoke, just in public buildings where I would rather enjoy my food than smell your cigar. I would vote the same for pot, sex, etc. Do whatever you want, just don't hurt anybody but yourself. Second hand smoke has been proven harmful to innocent victims like airline and restaurant workers.

I think they did the right thing with the drug called tobacco. You can smoke it, but it is taxed to make up for the harm it does (well actually other programs, but that is another very long debate). I'm all for taxing pot even if it is used to build better launch ramps for our boats. I by the way would never drive high, stoned , or under any other influence but my own crazy desire to go fast in rough water.

Now, back to that conservative stance on the issues I posted earlier....

Donzi38ZX,
You not only have a very cool boat, but are a most interesting debater.:D Maybe you should just fly out here while it is too cold at your place and we can discuss this thing in the Pacific Ocean. That is assuming you are not over 6 foot tall.;)

Tom,

Codiene is some great stuff :D I am over 6' tall, not certain why you mentioned it. Is it because of the headroom in your boat? Anyway I happen to agree with limiting smoking to those areas that will not impact others, including those nasty cigars I enjoy every couple of months or so.

In your earlier post you mentioned don't ask don't tell. Wasn't that Clinton's answer to gays in the military?

Source: The Steve 1 Dictionary of the real World© 1992 I-Me-Myself Publishers
liberal [lbaral, lbral] Liar
adj.

Benedict Arnold, Judas, apostate, back-stabber, backslider, betrayer, conspirator, copperhead, deceiver, defector, deserter, double-crosser, fifth columnist, fink, hypocrite, imposter, informer, informer, intriguer, miscreant, narc, plotter, quisling, rat, rat fink, rebel, renegade, snake, sneak, snitch, snitcher, spy, squealer, stool pigeon, stoolie, tattletale, traducer, treasonist, turncoat, two-timer, wolf

You see they just use the word liberal as a tool! Like a murdering dictator such as Castro covalently uses the Word Communist to mask the atrocities

That Word and the Trojan horse Liar-Rat Political Party.

Cigarette1 tried to sit in my boat and the headroom sucks. I think he is 6'2". I have learned that no sense mentioning a ride unless I ask the height question too.

Don't ask don't tell was Clinton's compromise about gays in the military, but it seems to apply to "I think it's just a do as I say not as I do kind of thing." as stated by at100plus, another interesting debator in this thread. I think Clinton's original solution to Gays in the military was more like "I'm gay, so shoot me if you don't like it" (as the gay guy confronts the enemy).;)

What about those "Log Cabin" Republicans they have been courting. Now there's a marriage from hell. Just picture Oral Roberts and Pee Wee Herman at the same dinner table. Roberts would have to change his first name.

I think I should lay down for a while, too much codiene in that last swig.;)

Having a bit of a problem with the "truth' and the "facts" there are you? Language is so dependant on shared definitions or else reality makes no sense at all. Thats why everybody can't make up their own dictionaries.

I was really hoping to get your input on the conservative views towards sex, drugs, intolerance, and the like.

I had not heard about this and kinda wish I hadn't. :crazy:

The facts are there! The Anti American Crowd uses the word Liberal like a child with a Halloween Mask it means anything they feel that day.

BTW I would really like to see a Debate between The Liar-Rats and one of the Conservatives.
:D

"The al-Qaida network is not America's most dangerous enemy. To fight only the al-Qaida enemy is to miss the terrorist network operating within our own borders.

Who are these traitors? Every rotten, radical left-winger in this country, that's who." -- Michael Savage

As covered by C-SPAN over the weekend, protesting speakers identified themselves as "revolutionaries" and "progressives" and spewed forth bitter rants against the U.S., thus consciously giving aid and comfort to the enemy:

Hamas and other suicide bomber groups in Palestine, Colombian drug dealers and Saddam's goons. An Islamist imam actually excused Osama bin Laden, and called "the real terrorists" George Bush, Rudy Giuliani and George Washington

Every leftist HATRED came under attack: capitalism, colonialism, oppression, racism, homophobia, gender discrimination, consumerism, individualism, and on and on. Meaningless slogans dominated the festivities: "No Blood for Oil," "Drop Bush, Not Bombs," "Stop War, End Racism."


More disconcerting was the sharing of the podium by many Democratic Party legislators adding their presence alongside this rabble.

It certainly doesn't inspire confidence among American voters to witness Charles Rangel, John Conyers, Al Sharpton, Ramsey Clark, Cynthia McKinney and other present and former government leaders from the Democratic Party lending their presence to these diatribes.

OK, You represent the conservatives, I'll be a liar- rat, a ***, a liberal, a pervert, a dope smoker, whatever mask you want. Don't even need to agree on the definition. I'll take that side no matter what name you want to put on it. I think your input would be the most interesting of the entire thread.

How do you feel about people masturbating or worse while looking at pornography?

How about if they are two adult guys?

Smoking Pot?

Sniffing head cleaner that they sell at all of those horrible pornography palaces with no other purpose than for people to get high off of it?

In front of other adults?

I guess you didn't know they joined your party and were invited by none other than George Bush so that he could win the election. Probably the Fort La Dee Dah ones made the difference. Or did you not know that south Florida is the gay capital of the world? Bet you thought Miami Beach was a retirement home for Jews. Lots of gays there are Jewish too by the way. I bet lots of them will be at the boat show in Miami. Might even be holding hands.

You see the biggest problem conservatives have with Liberals is that we are tolerant of other people. Scares you that liberals might be doing something you don't approve of. Need to pass more laws to stop them. Hard time reconciling that with the less government thing though.

I know you just say "lies, lies" but liberal places like Amsterdam and San Francisco are tolerant and conservative places like Bob Jones University are not.(OK, name your favorite conservative place and we will compare tolerance issues) Any "not me" statement from the conservative side is either a lie or they never really thought it out that far. A conservative vote is a vote for repression. Conservatives are willing to sell their soul to obtain their objective, either by embracing what they hate (gays) or letting the religious right impose their garbage on the world.

Tom,

This is the biggest problem with liberals. You are stuck in an imaginary place. The world cannot be painted however you choose, you do not get to make that decision, nobody does. Would I prefer to be able to carry whatever I want on a plane, show up 5 minutes before boarding and not have to submit to security screenings? Of course I would, but I'm a realist. And I know when to make reasonable sacrifices. Theory and reality differ all the time and responsible adult citizens live in reality. We make compromises for what we believe to be the best for the nation. And quite frankly I would rather ensure our safety than save the hour by showing up later to the airport. The issues you speak of are local issues. My city has 9 council members. Every one of them is a democrat. They fought tooth and nail to keep out a strip club. The social liberal viewpoint you speak of is dictated by the local citizens. Our basic freedoms are insured by the constitution, if you believe one of these is being breached than by all means take your case to the courts.