You assume I did not know them Rich....

Everyone is entitiled to there own opinion..But we all know how that goes..:angry-smiley-038:

:drink:

+1

I agree. I am in recovery, and I do defend drug dealers, and drug addicts in court, so I have first hand expereince in the affects of addiction and the business end.; I see how drugs affect society. Many of my worst clients, meaning the crime(s) that he is accused of, are good guys, but they are not making the world a better place by wrecking lives when he deals drugs/distribution. I love hot-rod boats, but just because the drug money bought you a boat, and you had the requisite skill and free time to be good at throttling and driving is not impressive.

Rich, you aksed whose fault is it? Not sure we (society) will ever have a firm answer to that question other than "free will" (choice).

Yup...and cigarettes are cool too. Cracks me up, cigarettes are ok and have done more harm to the people of this planet than any other thing...except government and religion.

As though the people who take drugs are not willing participants.

What Sal, Willy and Gus did was wrong because it was against the law, but life when convicted child molesters get less than 5 years... or demoted from cardinal to bishop... please. I knew the above mentioned very well and those who want to cast stones on this site are in the wrong sport... Offshore Racing... The sport that drugs built... It is what it is... get over it.

Drugs did not build offshore racing, that is an insane comment. Dr. Bob Magoon, Bill Wisnick, Rockiy Aoki, Earl Lannier, Art Norris....that is to name a few, they were successful racers not due to drug money....Drug Money did not build the sport.

MidOcean, Those who take drugs when they are in active addiction typically cannot stop once they start, as far as a "willing participants", the choice is not as "free will" as you imply. Casual and recreational drug users, yes they are willing participants, not doubt there. Hard core drug addicts are participants, but the grip of addiction has them bottled up. Fact not fiction.

I read the casting of stones Biblical reference, and I certainly do not live in a glass house, but, what the hell, if you deal drugs, then you are wrecking lives...this is a not a complex concept to grasp.

If you have a 401k there is a good chance it has investments in pharmacutical companies prescriptions drugs kill people every day most times it is their prescrition just excessive quantities so are you drug dealers by investment.

If you fund drug dealers in my oopinion drug dealer.

Many moons ago we lived without a prescrption for restless leg syndrome but now the drug companies have us convinced we can't like the good dealers they are.

When was the last time a gram of cocaine held a gun to somebody's head and said "snort me or die mutherphucker" ?

If you had a teenager that was using drugs would you still think these guys are OK, misunderstood ?

Never did, never happened you are correct. But the drug addict whose life is controlled by drugs will hold the gun to your head, and will pull the trigger. Crack is cocaine, crack addicts can be violent in order to get their next high; go into Camden NJ and test this hypothesis. Good luck in the results of your research.

The more you know about addiction the clearer the picture will be. I do understand and appreciate your point, it does make sense.

So I really do not care if he was a good guy away from the business, that is irrelevant; and a great offshore boat racer, if you are dealing illegal drugs/distribution, you are not making the world a better place.

So when they come a knocking for ya (criminals), it is time to take your medicine (incarcertion). I'd rather see a defendant do time, than rat out his associates, but that is another thread, and I have my reasons for that position. So I will give my due respect to Sal Maglutta for not ratting/snitching. I remember him racing, and yes he was good.

Is there a chewing tobbaco addict anywhere that you know of:evilb:Get real money is the root to all evil you want to put high school year book pictures of the pain inflicted ones??:bsflag:

I agree, its your own free will to do what you want, theres no privacy left in America. Always someone watching.. Regardless of whoever gets caught selling drugs there will be another dealer lined up.. They will never stop the flow of drugs just lock up people for selling and using drugs..People do get killed but they put themselves in harms way or tried to get in other peoples business or didnt do honest business.

I'm referring to our complete lack of border security......not some lofty societal issue. I am basically pragmatic...if you give weak people an opportunity and an easy way, the majority will take that route.... "The path of least resistance".

Sal and Willie and Ben and the rest catered to a market begat in the "swinging 60's", a time that saw the disolution of a lot of America's fundamental moral code. (to me that was a mixed bag...we lost a lot of Victorian prudishness, but the price was the simultaneous loss of class, family, and self restraint). They were aided by some sleazy government activities in Latin America, and the media supported love for Marijuana (Cheech and Chong, Rock Stars, Woodstock, etc). I believe that Marijuana does lead to Coke, Horse, and the rest. These guys were opportunistic crooks who saw the market and filled it..........end of story.

The government could have stopped it cold, but , since there are a lot of tokers and sniffers in the halls of Washington, the major media, and show biz....that was out of the question.


Today they (we) reap what was sown back then with Mexican cartels murdering our citizens, generations lost to glue sniffing, speed balling, and crack dens, and billions of our tax dollars wasted on picking up the pieces after the fact.

To me an ounce of prevention in 1964 would have been worth a ton of cure today. But Goldwater lost to Johnson and the "Great Society" continues to slide downhill to this day, championed by Obama, Boxer, Barney Frank, et al, all of whom make Sal and Willie look like altar boys .

By the way...you may recall a fellow named Franklin Delano Roosevelt...beloved by many (not me...but many)....? His middle name "Delano" came from his mother's side of the family. The Delano's were among America's richest families and made their fortune in the late 19th and earlier 20th centuries. The fortune came from importing Cocaine..(legally back then)...and selling it to among others...The Coca Cola Company. (you could look it up). This goes right along with how the Kennedy's made their dough...... smuggling during Prohibition. Don't ever try and gloss over the commonality between our top politicians and organized criminal activity.

Getting back to the "boys"....hate the game...... not the player.

Nuff said......

T2x

I don't think anybody is saying that the way these guys made their money was good thing. Obviously they committed very horrific crimes and are paying for that now.

The only thing I can say about any of them is that they were good to me. I had no dealings with them outside of racing so I have no basis to comment on their lives away from the races. When I had my accident in Grand Haven the first person I saw after leaving the hospital was Sal. He was extremely generous and compassionate and he and Bob Kaiser offered to help me in any way they could. I can condemn him for his business, but not the way he was when he was at a race site.

I have always respected your opinion and still do, your post is very well put.

I do not like the game, and I do not like the players, the players can choose another game. An addict that is deep in addiction has lost the power to say no, until jail, institution, or death occurs, unless the miracle of recovery begins, and that can happen too.

If I were bron 20 years earlier, I would have been a defendant along with that kind of crowd, but I choose to defend them and get paid that way..

:lolhit:

Sorry, I can not decipher this.

Me either.......

But he seems very passionate.... :D

Agreed 100%!

Byproduct of successful drug smuggeling operation??

AGREED...100 times More...

OK I will you know less than5% of addicts recover:eek:But only after they do somthing horrible and get killed they put a picture for sympathy!:angry-smiley-038:Blame the system or police or the drug dealer!passionate enough!:party-smiley-004:

interesting tidbit... it is not just a human condition... many animals eat plants for there mind altering properties...

Agreed 100%

I read " the boys" as a term of endearment which is BS.

Who gives a phuck whether they could drive a boat.
I could care less if they even knew how to swim.

The local priest could deliver a great sermon but if he's doin 2 alter boys a day in the back room he should be shot with a ball of his own chit, just like these two phucktards.

Some of you on here may not be glorifying them but you are at least condoning or ignoring what they did as being horrific.

Without DEMAND...There is No Need for SUPPLY!

Blame the dealers all you want but, they are selling to people who are demanding their supply. Self Control is a virtue that those using should be held accountable for.

So if someone wants your boat cheap and gets someone to steal it from you, you'll just be upset with the guy that wanted it and not the guy that takes it from your marina ?

Same thing.

When you can buy pot&coke over the counter what will you think of these type then!PS Just like gambling:bsflag:

Key word........WHEN

Do you have the same disdain for cigarette companies? I know quite a few people that smoked pot, they're doing fine. I have a number of family members who smokED cigarettes, they're dead, it wasn't pretty either.

I'll say YES just so the thread doesnt get off topic.

Very good point though.

You read wrong......

It was simply a shortening of the name the media gave them....

"Cocaine Cowboys"......

I don't keep my boat at the marina. It will be tough to steal it from there because its not there. Either way, if someone wants it bad enough and my boat is in Demand then, it will be stolen. By that same token, if there is no Demand for my boat then, there will be no reason to steal it. Whoever decides to do such a thing should know the consequences and be able to suffer them. If no one wants drugs or boats then, the demand will fall.

I can't control someones desire to steal or use drugs. I can only control my own. In that sense, people should try to control themselves, not try to control others.

That would make for a totally free Lawless society (Anarchy) . Free to do drugs, free to kill, steal ect. That really won't work in the USA. Current Laws (though flawed) are far better. Just my opinion.

Look...these people, and many of them are still doing business with YOU today, but some got away and out of the biz. But then some got greedy and kept going, some got killed and some got jail. Ya'll would be shocked to learn who is who!

Ever see Scarface? It is more real than some of you can imagine. Some of these people had a choice - be a dishwasher or help supply the people with a demand.

It happens, it probably did help some of the innovation in offshore with the cash, but i am not saying it is right - it was just a different time...18 year olds driving $150k Porsches with more gold jewelry and hot girls than you can imagine.

But NOBODY seemed to have a problem with them back then, even though everyone knew who was who and doing what.

It's still going on, same game, different players!

A LITTLE MORE INFO
Miami's last cocaine cowboy rode into the sunset last week. Salvador Magluta, considered one of Miami's most notorious narcotics dealers, was prosecuted in federal court for having witnesses murdered and for laundering millions of dollars in drug proceeds. A federal judge then punished Magluta with a 205-year sentence. Magluta, 48, will live in prison till the day he dies. But Magluta was never convicted of the homicides for which he was sentenced. A jury of his peers found Magluta not guilty of the murders, and guilty only of the nonviolent money-laundering charges -- crimes that carry a maximum sentence of 20 years.
http://sdfla.blogspot.com/2006/11/sa...sentenced.html

Certainly laws are needed and the "boys" should have followed them. As should the "users" and the supply chain in between. There is no argument here that recreational drugs of any kind(excess alcohol, nicotine, prescription, home blended or "imported") create great damage, and I have little tolerance for addictive personalities and abusers.

My point goes back to the sanctimonious, self righteous, piety on this thread for which I have equal disdain.

I think Al Pacino said it best in his surprizingly realistic depiction of the old days as "Scarface". He was speaking to more than just the actors in that restaurant scene when he shouted (and I am paraphrasing): "Take a good look, you never see my kind again! I da bad guy....what dat make you.....good?"

IMHO all of the sermonizing on this thread doesn't make anybody "good" either.

T2x

I think this is the single comment that most on here are reacting to.

Oh yeah...one more thing...they really were a lot of fun to be around.....and could flat out drive race boats like nobody's business.


The thread was about them, not the sermonizers.

No one cares about whether the people that commented on your post are " good ".

That wasnt the point.

Agree 100%.

True Free The Boys.