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"It's An Issue Of Patriotism...YES!!!
OLYMPIA, Washington (AP) -- Two lawmakers left the floor of the Washington House of Representatives during a prayer by a Muslim religious leader this week, citing patriotism and a lack of interest.
Republicans Lois McMahan of Gig Harbor and Cary Condotta of East Wenatchee walked to the back of the chamber during Monday's invocation by Mohamad Joban, imam of the Islamic Center of Olympia. McMahan said she did not oppose having a Muslim deliver the prayer but left because "the religion is the focal point of the hate-America sentiment in the world." "It's an issue of patriotism," she said. "Even though the mainstream Islamic religion doesn't profess to hate America, nonetheless it spawns the groups that hate America." The National Council on American-Islamic Relations urged Republican leaders to condemn the walkout and apologize to Washington Muslims. I HOPE THEY DON'T APOLOGIZE! Article |
I wonder what liberal Jackass came up with the idea for using
an Islamic Prayer in The house chambers ??????:mad: |
Birddog; the word jackass is one of the kinder words I use for liberals.
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I try to be nice.....:D
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Why Cat ?
Who says we {the majority} has to ? |
hmmmm I must have missed the "rule of law" that says all
religions have to speak in gov. blds..... |
!
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Blah blah blah blah...............and.......blah blah blah..............blah blah blah.........blah....blahblahblblblblblblblbllllll ahhh.
Hey chief, this is America......I stand 100% behind these proud individuals who got up and left the room. Someone has to say ENOUGH every now and then. Infact, it is never done enough. We have to get back to doing what is right in the country, not what is popular or fair.....what is right. That is why I like Bush. At a time of war with a group who bases their battle against us on MUSLIM BELIEFS....it is absurd to have them lead prayer in any HOuse of Reps. That's a bunch of crap. If you claim majority rules, then you just destroyed the entire democratic platform.......institutionalzed equality in all forms of life......... Better refer back to your liberal propoganda handbook, you have contradicted yourself again. I'm glad I am not a socialist. Allan....PROUD to be AMERICAN......IN GOD WE TRUST!!!!!!:) |
Oh....BTW Cat....Getting religion out of goverment...It aint gonna
happen....get over it and enjoy that new non-politicaly correct boat you bought !:D |
I believe that in our nation everyone has the right to pray to their God who ever that might be. I believe that in order to protect my right to pray to my God I MUST fight for the right for anyone else to pray to theirs. The US Congress voted 99 to 0 today to leave "God" in The Pledge of Allegence. GOD BLESS AMERICA (who's ever God it might be). Otto
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Cat , don't you think that childern that have religous values in their life just turn out to be better adults????? What message would we send by removing religon from our goverment???????Otto
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The Question I have is;
Just who gives a Crap about a liberal or an atheist or Americas lowest Life form of them all a “liberal – atheist” friggin thinks anyway?? They are a much greater danger and have done more DAMAGE to this Great Country our Lifestyle, Culture and Race than Bin Laden and company ever could… to be quite blunt!!! :mad: |
Steve what do you mean?? Do you find it hard to speak about how you really feel in your heart of hearts??? Otto
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Another chapter in the ongoing saga of the world according to Steve1......
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I stand 100% behind these proud individuals who got up and left the room. |
I like "your world". It's often very simular to mine. Otto
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LOL 99% of the prison population are democrats also!!
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But they became Christian after they got arrested, not before. Otto
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Originally posted by Steve 1 LOL 99% of the prison population are democrats also!! |
Cat, you gave up too easily. Those Atheists have no staying power, no religous convictions. Why does the word Atheist get capitalized????
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Okay gang-----Don't mean to sound like a broken record player again, but this country was born on biblical principals----religious freedom to worship the God of Abraham....not Atheism, Budism, Islam, New Age or any other. Freedom to worship Christ is a major reason why America was born, but sin slowly creeps in like a disease or cancer---look at America today----the most blessed country in the world, but it is quickly becoming pagan/heathan nation which promotes a sort of anarchy. One example is that we have kicked the God Abraham out of our school system, but let false religions remain-----and you wonder why kids are going around and killing themselves and each other?
There is a spiritual realm behind all of this. The devil does his job well. The Bible says that he is the enemy of God and mankind---- he's a liar and a deciever and he came to kill, rob and destroy. He tries to pervert or counterfit everything that God does! Whereas, God Almighty loves us and wants what is best for us. The Bible says He came to seek and to save that which was lost (you and I)--- that we might have life and have it more abundantly. Everyone of us is special in His eyes. His Word also says that: "What shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?" Romans 8:31 The devil has decieved many into believing that God is the "bad guy!" Here is just one example of what the devil has perverted----I'm choosing this because it is something most everyone is familiar with. The cross (a sybol of Chirstianity) turned upside down, broken, with a circle drawn around it......most people know it today as the "peace sign"-----when actually it is the inverted/perverted cross of Christ. Actually, the ''peace sign" was created to mean "peace without God or Christ"---but 99.9% of population does NOT know this! Thing is---is that true peace will NEVER happen until Jesus Christ returns! This world will never know peace until the true Prince of Peace returns----and He is coming back! As I have said; there is a spiritual realm/world. God Almighty (Jesus Christ) and the devil (Satan) are waring against each other's kingdom for the souls of mankind. Simply put---God loves us and the devil hates us. Your mind is the battle ground----whomever has your mind, has you! If a person has not chosen FOR God then he is against God. You must choose for Him. The name "Jesus" means "Savior". When we die, we will either know Jesus as our Lord and Savior or we will know Him as our Judge. God chose for us----now it is each one of us who must personally choose for Him. BTW, I am no better than anyone else---I say all this because I love my fellow man. God bless you all. |
Mark I agree...and it took Guts to say that! any second now.......Here comes Cat!
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by catmando
[B]You're right, there IS no "rule of law" on this question. It's the "rule of the Majority", which in this country is the Xian religion. OK....Now that we cleared that up....It's not a "bad" thing Cat. I was exposed to religion at an early age. If you believe or not,at least they teach,Morals,values,compassion,etc. I think these are good things ! I don't understand why you hate it so much ? You strike me as a decent person. Why so much hate for something that does'nt hurt you ? Only tries to make people feel good & treat others well..... |
Cat, since when does the worship of the lack or non-existance of somthing deserve respect. Please also note that earilier I did say that I would fight for the right for anyone to worship the
god of their choice. I guess I should revise that to include the right to worship the lack of something. Otto |
KAAMA....excellent post.:)
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How in the hell did this thread turn into a "Who's Religion Is Better" thread?
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Steve-----sorry man. Sometimes I can't help myself. I believe I am a true American patriot though! :)
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KAAMA - NOW, THATS WHAT I WANT TO HEAR!
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This speaks for itself.
Samuel Thompson wrote: I don't believe in Santa Claus, but I'm not going to sue somebody for singing a Ho-Ho-Ho song in December. I don't agree with Darwin, but I didn't go out and hire a lawyer when my high school teacher taught his theory of evolution. Life, liberty or your pursuit of happiness will not be endangered because someone says a 30-second prayer before a football game.So what's the big deal? It's not like somebody is up there reading the entire book of Acts. They're just talking to a God they believe in and asking him to grant safety to the players on the field and the fans going home from the game. "But it's a Christian prayer," some will argue. Yes, and this is the United States of America, a country founded on Christian principles. And we are in the Bible Belt. According to our very own phone book, Christian churches outnumber all others better than 200-to-1. So what would you expect-somebody chanting Hare Krishna? If I went to a football game in Jerusalem, I would expect to hear a Jewish prayer. If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad, I would expect to hear a Muslim prayer. If I went to a ping pong match in China, I would expect to hear someone pray to Buddha. And I wouldn't be offended. It wouldn't bother me one bit. When in Rome... "But what about the atheists?" is another argument. What about them? Nobody is asking them to be baptized. We're not going to pass the collection plate. Just humor us for 30 seconds. If that's asking too much, bring a Walkman or a pair of ear plugs. Go to the bathroom. Visit the concession stand. Call your lawyer. Unfortunately, one or two will make that call. One or two will tell thousands what they can and cannot do. I don't think a short prayer at a football game is going to shake the world's foundations. Christians are just sick and tired of turning the other cheek while our courts strip us of all our rights. Our parents and grandparents taught us to pray before eating, to pray before we go to sleep. Our Bible tells us just to pray without ceasing. Now a handful of people and their lawyers are telling us to cease praying. God, help us. And if that last sentence offends you, well..........just sue me. The silent majority has been silent too long.. it's time we let that one or two who scream loud enough to be heard, that the vast majority don't care what they want.. it is time the majority rules! It's time we tell them, you don't have to pray.. you don't have to say the pledge of allegiance, you don't have to believe in God or attend services that honor Him. That is your right, and we will honor your right.. but by golly you are no longer going to take our rights away .....we are fighting back.. and we WILL WIN! After all the God you have the right to denounce is on our side! God bless us one and all, especially those who denounce Him... God bless America, despite all her faults.. still the greatest nation of all..... God bless our service men who are fighting to protect our right to pray and worship God... May 2003 be the year the silent majority is heard and we put God back as the foundation of our families and institutions. Keep looking up...... In God WE Trust > > > |
Allen4 - Nail on the head. I applaud Bush for having the hevows to do what is right for this country for a change. Not what will make him popular. I support those who arn't afraid to be patriotic.
My2cents. |
Well, this is a very interesting thread. I have thought about posting and I have thought about not posting. I would like to share a few thoughts here, for what they are worth.
I believe this country was founded upon Judeo-Christian values and beliefs. I DO NOT believe that ANYONE has the right to force someone else to pray or not to pray. I do believe that we all have to resepct one another whether we believe in a God or not. I believe that governement and religion should not be mixed. I believe that children should be allowed to pray in the public school system if they choose to. If they do, they should not be stopped, teased or hindered. Conversely, those who choose not to pray need to be resepctful and deserve to be respected. I believe PARENTS need to do a beter job of raising, controlling their children, and take responsibility for their and their childrens actions. Children need to be held accountable for their actions and be taught what is right or wrong. One does not need religion to know and understand the difference. If you are of the belief that religion is the best means by which to teach a child values, the difference between right and wrong, and how to live their lives, good for you, I respect that. If I believe differently, and take my actions and those of my children (if I had any) as my responsibility I expect the same respect. People in general need to take responsibiliy their actions, whether they are adults or children. PERIOD! Religion does not make one a good person. Religion does not make one a bad person. More wars have been faught over religion than any other purpose. Does that make it right? NO! Does that make it wrong? NO! It is what it is. There are good and bad people that are both religious and not religious. There are people that cause harm and evil in the name of religion or denouncing it. Good and evil are a matter of choice. Choose what you wish to believe in. Just do not make it a requirement for others to follow suit. We live in the BEST COUNTRY ON THE PLANET! People have faught and died for our right to choose! Respect that, honor them, honor our flag, our republic, our pledge (even with the reference to God because God was one of the the most important reasons our founding fathers freed this great nation). Certainly helping to improve our nation on a daily basis is good. Remember, Rome was not built over night. If you do not comply with these simple tasks of honor and respect, I believe you should LEAVE RIGHT NOW and NEVER COME BACK! LONG LIVE AMERICA! |
?????????WHAT??????????:confused: :confused: :confused:
Holy......Shmoly..............:rolleyes: |
Originally posted by catmando What shane said. So please, stop trying to impose your beliefs on us, live your life the way you see fit and stop deriding me for the way I live mine. Think about it....... |
I couldn't care less what religion you practice. That's not the issue. The issue is that the christian right believes in freedom of religion, as long as it's mine. The problem is that religion and government should not be mixed, separation of church and state. Why can't you guys realize that? Go to church every day of the week, give all of your money, just don't force it on everyone. If you want to testify to others about your faith, do it. So what. Just keep it out of government. Your faith should be strong enough to stand on its own without the government's help. Where's the "more freedom, less big government and goddamn liberals" bull**** talk when religion comes up. Separation of church and state, what's the problem with that...
BTW - excellent post Shane. Ted - "I, nor anyone on this board have ever posted an article or even a commment about how much atheism has screwed things up or why non-believers are some lower life form or any of that crap." posted by Steve1 on page 1: "Just who gives a Crap about a liberal or an atheist or Americas lowest Life form of them all a “liberal – atheist” friggin thinks anyway??" think about it... |
God Bless America!
America was born on biblical pricipals and values. With all due respect, I get tired of listening to others bashing God and bashing America! Yes, many times I struggle with how things are done when it comes to the government only because of personal, self centered motives that infiltrate the politcal arena with laws that are ridiculas, but I still LOVE my country! I know it's NOT a perfect world, but I love America because of the intents and principles she was born on. We are losing our heritage because some unpatriotic people want to rewrite the history books of America. It causes confusion. If you lose your heritage it's like you lose your birthright and once you lose that you have taken away the vission of what America is supposed to, created and intended to be. Those things are being taken away from us today. We need to know WHO we are and WHY we're here! We need to TAKE BACK America! Many people have NO idea of what it means to even BE an American! Here's a hint in this order----God, family, county.
God is a GREAT and GOOD God, He loves us and wants what is best for us----and the devil is a BAD devil--- he HATES you and will hate you all the way into hell! If a person realizes these two things he will know more than most theologians. Mark/KAAMA |
LET'S STICK TO THE ISSUE!
Are you guys PATRIOTIC or not, that is the issue!
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I agree that church and state should be separate in that the government should not fund any church program that it would not otherwise fund wer it not provided by a church.
I agree that church and state should be separate in that the government should not endorse any particular form of religious worship as being any more valid than any other as long as it does not involve illegal or personally harmful practices. I also feel, though, that whatever elected official is in the highest office of the subsection (country, state, city, courtroom, etc) should be allowed to express his views and, if convicted, be allowed to publically pray or express himself as his convictions dictate. Those around him should be somewhat accomodating of this without being forced or expected to join in. We elect officials. They are either religiously convicted or they are not. We have the option to not elect a person for many reasons and can and should take into account his political as well as spiritual views. Once elected, though, he should be expected to express himself without opposition. If we elect a Jewish man and he wishes to wear one of those little skullcap things, and it is religiously appropriate for him to do so, then we shouldn't harp on it. If we elect a Mormon man and he wants to stock the basement of the White House with a year's worth of dried beans and bottled water, we shouldn't harp on it. If we elect a Seventh Day Adventist and he gets shot in a minor assassination attempt, and he refuses receiving the blood necessary to keep him alive, then we shouldn't harp on it. If we elect a radical Muslim, then we deserve what we get. Point is, spiritualism is part of a man, not a separate "item". We should be aware of the religious convictions of the candidates we are offered and we should expect that the man will behave in a manner consistent with his convictions. Religion separate from church and state - YES. But religion separate from churchMAN and statesMAN, No Can Do. As far as government shuttling money towards faith-based programs? Why not? For years church programs have done lots of community work without government assistance. Church programs have worked alongside government assist programs, essentially doubling the required budget to run both operations. Why not send money to established programs that have proven to be effective. Some of these may be operated by non-religious private organizations, others by churches. They are more effective than the federal programs, so why not send assistance? The effect is NOT endorsing a CHURCH, but funding an assist program. An effective assist program, not one of those federal programs staffed with a bunch of noncaring there-for-the-paycheck federal employees... I see no problem. |
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