On the subject of Litigation.......and cleverness
 

Sadly....... The terms and circumstances of our performance boating world have been infected with an outbreak of legal wrangling. The legal "weapons" have been used in a variety of ways:

1. As a threat....as in "If you don't do such and such...I/we will sue you".......... or ......."If you say such and such....I/we will sue you".....or....."If I/we don't get my/our way I/we will sue you."
This threat carries the weight of forcing one or the other party to invest in legal fees.......and has nothing to do with who is right or who is wrong.

2. As an annoyance/delay tactic...as in ......"I/We refuse to pay you because I/we have a valid actionable breach of an agreement."....or ...... "I/We can't pay you until a court decides".....or...... "I/we won't pay you because legal actions will postpone the process until you run out of desire."........This tactic has nothing to do with who is right or who is wrong.

3. As a confusing tactic........as in....... "The other party claims to have a legal point but I/we assure all interested parties, that due to the specific language of paragraph four, section 2....no conscious action may be taken unless certain specific notice has been given relative to appendix 9 of a prior agreement referred to in section two herein."........ This is generally included in a filibuster like presentation easily identified by its length, earnest format, and wounded innocence tone. This tactic also has nothing to do with who is right or who is wrong.

4. As a calculated crapshoot........ as in............." I have no valid defense for my actions......so what are you going to do about it, sue me?" This one is especially heinous in that courts are unpredictable at best....and of course this has nothing to do with who is right and who is wrong.

Sad,...... aint it? How did we get in this mess? In all fairness, most business negotiations today involve heavy contractual/legal involvement, along with ever increasing liability and government concerns, so the phenomenon is to be expected. However there is still a sizable segment of our society who exist on a promise, a hand shake, or a commitment. this group is dwindling and being replaced by an insect like army of lawyers and MBA's who study things like "Shrewdness in the corporate jungle"...and "How to win at any cost"......... or " Never let the truth stop you......use the Spin technique.".......

So in the long run it comes down to the good lawyers versus the bad ones......... Now how do you tell the difference?

The good lawyers drive catamarans........;)

T2x

we just had item 4 happen to us down here. so we sued and won. we called their bluff and they learned a lesson the hard way. i loved watching the expression on their faces when the jury came back. we were fortunate that the jury did know right from wrong.

Drop the Keyboard!
 

Ok T2x, drop the keyboard and back away from the desk. We are here to help you. We will make sure those Lawyer types can't get to you again. It wil be allright.:D

Philip

someone pissed him off?

Re: On the subject of Litigation.......and cleverness
 

Gotta love that T2x!:D :D :D

Up here in Chicago a good beatin takes care of most issues.:p

As my grandpa used to say "He needs to be taken out behind the wood shed and have the tar beaten out of him!" It's only truer now except it doesent happen enough.

Up here we do things a tad differently.
Threaten to sue me and I give ya the guided tour of 100 acres WAY up north:)

Gotta love T2x

All that legal ranglin has provided us with some pretty darn good racing the past 4 years. Hell if we could of had some of that legal ranglin years ago - we might of won the war . HAHA - BH

Just look at your insurance bills.
Tort reform NOW!

Best quote from a friend who was buying an airplane from a guy who said "all is fine all we need is our lawyers to look at this";
-You pay your lawyer be the hour don't you?
-Yes
-So do I, then what's their incentive on us agreeing on something?...

Another
"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers." (henry VI, Pt. II, Act IV, Sc. 2) Shakespeare

Another
"Lawyers are like nuclear warheads. I have them because the other guy has them, but the first time you use them it fu**s everything up" Larry "the Liquidator" Garfield, Other People's Money, 1991

Or number 5, the.....I know it will cost you $10k in legal expenses to try and get your $25k out of me, so I will offer you $12k to shut up and go away.....what's your time worth to you pal?

Re: On the subject of Litigation.......and cleverness
 

T2x- Dwindling is a very optimistic view....... :(

Back4More- You just have to love the old-fashioned "Chicago-Way" of doing things!:)

GLH- some good quotes- here's a favorite of my grandfather's- who called lawyers "a necessary evil".....

What do you call a parachuting lawyer?..........


Skeet

well if the guy would just build the boat in the alotedd time given after already being paid then there would be no problems.

but because half the boat builders are scam artists to begin with is the problem. they build the boat on your money. they spend then can't even build the damm thing.

Treadewll

You never pay in full until you get the finished product delivered...
Then see how fast it gets built...;)

give'em hell t2x backfor more you and raypanic , air packer you have the right idea

tx2

for some reason the system deleated your last pm...pls try again

Right on Treadwellmotorsports and Sharkeymarine - why are you all blaming the lawyers? If people would just do what they are supposed to do then you all could put the lawyers out of business. The lawyers aren't building the boats. Seems its the mechanics, builders and other service providers that don't perform as promised.

And if anyone out there thinks they have found the perfect boat builder, mechanic, etc. and pays in full before obtaining the finished product, shame on you!!

T2X wasn't just talking about boat related lawyering, he was painting the BIG picture of where the legal "profession" has taken us!
A very sad point on the road to "freedom" we have arrived at! But then, if you need to have this pointed out, then you probably are not aware of the problem to begin with!
Stay on the perch, you know who you are:D

Yeah, but then you will probably get sued! :)
:D

Huh? Please tell me I misread that

t2x, I just sold my Cat & ordered an Outlaw. Why didn't you tell me that before. BTW, the profession sucks. I should have listened to my parents and been a dentist.

Where did I mention anything about lawyers? I simply said that you should not pay in full for a boat that is still in liquid form...:crazy:

Imagine how much cheaper things would be if people just did what they said they would. There are a lot of built in costs to everything we do because of people sewing other people :(:(

Jon

Anything but an MBA...............................;)

T2x

I love lawyers. I respect the fact these men and women went to school for years and in many cases, put themselves into heavy debt, to study law. They then work to protect our interests, as we are their clients, while we often degrade them. Unfortunately, we need lawyers because people don't honor their agreements and otherwise cause probelms personally or professionally and the lawyers are often our last line of defense.

Now, that being said, I'd prefer if we didn't have to use them. But, as this point, I wouldn't do a deal on a handshake, because of the strong possibility that the other party would not honor the agreement to the same degree that I pride myself on honoring. Their is also the ever prevalent chance of a misunderstanding if everything is not spelled out in writing from the get go.