BOAT KITS - To build, or not to build?
 

I was just reading the Avanti thread. A member asked why all powerboat factories were not offering their boats as kits. I would like the input of this forum. I would like to know what you readers think, good or bad, about a factory offering their models as "kits."

We are considering this. We would, however, make sure that the hull number would designate that the boat was a kit from the beginning.

What do you think?

Post or call me at 631-226-1761.

John Coen
President
Superboat Powerboats
http://www.Superboatonline.com

I think it would be a good idea, the key is the ability for the buyer to rig the boat properly. and as the builder i dont think you would want a person doing a half as- job and have your name associated with it?? just my thoughts

as long as you designate thet the hull was not rigged or finished by the factory i think its a great idea.

I recently rigged my own boat. Took me ALOT longer than what I had anticipated. However, I ended up with a boat that was built my way. Not every body might like my way, but it's what I wanted. During the rig, I became very familiar with the hull and all of it's "defects". I also had to contact the factory several times requesting setup information. When I was first looking for a boat, I found that very few manufactures were actually willing to sell me a blank hull to rig. It seems that alot of the money was in the rigging and engine packages. Some even went so far as to say that they didn't want a inferior rig job to reflect poorly on them. I also suspect that some may fear that it's an low cost method to splash the hull. Ultimately, I think that it's a great idea that not enough builders offer.

John,

I think this is the perfect place for such a poll as most of the folks here on OSO are hands-on boat owners and do alot of their own work.

That being said, I think the idea of offering your boats as a kit is a great idea with the hull id stipulation in mind. The last thing you'd want to happen to your company is having a boat rigged by a less than qualified individual and then they go out and represent the boat as a factory Superboat. that is not to say of course that the kit boats would all be rigged wrong...but ther are things you would probably like to standardize such as the X-dimension so that the purchaser would be assured of a properly handling boat...

all in all, i think it's a great idea.


Sean

How many average joe boaters out there would want to buy a boat and rig it themselves? NOT ME!

I would make sure that HULL number is different from the factory built boats. I can see you getting phone calls about used boats sold that you built but didn't rig years from now.

But I can also see people wanting the Hull and set it up their own way.

Can you just add a Hull iD suffix to let everyone know?
I would say Do it, as long as you can let the customers know what you rigged and what you didn't :D

When I think of un-rigged boats I think of Skater. They don't seem to have a problem with quality rig jobs.

I agree with Tantrum on the other thread. What kind of reputation would a boat builder have if their product was out there exhibiting nothing but problems due to poor rigging. Especially in the second hand/used market where people are buying these boats. Even if they had serial #s to reflect the boat being sold as unrigged, who would know to check serial #s when buying a used boat. Although the people rigging themselves would like to do a nice job, I think there is too much involved to do it right. Boat builders are doing the absolute best to build a better boat to increase sales and make money. A self-rigger would be doing it to save money and have no motivation to make it as "perfect" as possible.

I think it is a bad idea. For a new boat, I would be concerned about safety, and also I feel it would greatly harm the used boat market, from both a quality and safety point of view.

Manufacturing the boats under an entirely different name could solve the problem entirely, say Speedkit?

Certainly there will be good and bad points on both sides of the equation. The option to choose is a great idea so long as you C-Y-A! Maybe sign a release or soomething. My first thought was the same as mentioned earlier. "Many Skaters are rigged elsewhere." Best of luck John and go for it!

self-rigger would be doing it to save money and have no motivation to make it as "perfect" as possible.

I think while there are those that would follow that concept, which brings to question the products overall quality. Some people have different ideas as to how they like their boat rigged.
thier are several pros and cons to this thread, but overall i like the idea.

At what level are you going to offer the kit. Some people may be looking to save money and like to have the project that they can set up to there standards. I am sure you can save a lot by shopping for the engine package on your own as well as interior and hardware. Anyone that would take this type of project on I am sure knows what would go into it as hours and money. I know two people off the top of my head that woud be interested and they have talked about this very subject.
I have a question tough? If someone takes a kit can they race it in F1?

I'd call it a "SuperKit!" :D

I like the idea. Do like the kit cars do it-
-hull
-cockpit- seats, side panels
-wiring harness
-cabin

Take care of the major large items and let the buyer source the engine, drive, guages, steering etc.

Cougar25 the answer is yes, if rigged to the specs set by APBA, X dimension, and approved cre power.

I think its a great idea and the idea of a seperate name altogether is the only way to go to avoid confusion in the market place. Sell it as whatever name you want like Ubuildit boats with a tag line like Hull Construction by Superboat

I bought a new Checkmate a couple of years ago. I guarantee that I would have done a far better job rigging it than the factory did. Hell, it seems that I`ve had to re-rig half the damn thing anyway! I think it would have been better for me to have bought one unrigged. That way I know that it would have been done right and I would`nt be pissed of every time I worked on it.

Lets hear some price breakdowns. Have you thought any packages and $'s.

Along the lines of what COBRA MARTY was saying... make it similar to a kit car where all the parts(many of them) are included in the "kit" I.E. wireing harnesses, interior(have choices), blank white hull(color options?), hardware as in cleats, grab handles, cabin basics like the interior and cabinets. Leave options open for the customer to get like gauges, motors, drives, steering, trim, electronics (am/fm, depth finder, GPS, etc). Included detailed instructions on how to assemble the included pieces in the "kit". Have a help line for those who still need help... Offer rigging shops that are possibly trained in the assembly of the boats, in whole or part.

I like the idea John. A "Speedkit" by superboat.
My racing partner and I are toying with the idea of putting together a boat just for racing in the next couple of years, instead of beating the hell out of our existing pleasure boats.
I am capable of doing a high quality rigging job, if with a just little guidence along the way.
It would be nice to start with a fresh hull rather than re-build an older boat! Which is what I have always done!
BTW, you guys looked great out there this past Sunday.
Hope to see you again on the 21st/22nd.

TomR
P5-15 "Sonic Boom"

P.S. We would have to change our name to "Super Sonic Boom"???

You would have to do more than just change the hull #'s it need s to be a different name alltogether. You are asking to degrade the value of your franchise because of poor rigging, gauges and other shoddy work after the boat leaves the factory.

sell Superboat's as a complete boat rigged to your standards and Brand-X as a completely different boat for the "do it your-selfers" Not that some won't be done well, but every one has different standards of perfect rigging. Also are you prepared to answer the questions for people riggging their own boats? Will the general public surfing Boat trader know it wasn't rigged by you if it has the same name on it? or investigate? Or if they see one at the marina and the fit and finish is poor would they know that isn't your standard?? Would they do enough investigation to know the difference or would they just make a mental note to pass on Superboats becasue of what they have seen?


I hear enought complaints about builders fit and finish and I would guess most have some kind of QC. now get 50 different people over 10 years rigging Superboats and what do you have???

A few years ago I was thinking about Rigging a California Built 26' Cat From Scratch.The Owner of the Company at first was Skeptical because He did not want his name on a Hill-Billy Rigged Piece.I offered a Few names in the Business for references and after some calls, He Agreed to sell me a bare Hull with an Interior .

Rob

I agree.

Another option would be to sell the boat as "home made" with no hull number and let the owner deal with motor vehicles and register it as such. This is something that I don't think we will consider, but I thought I'd throw it in the ring. This is something that would really need to be looked at on a case by case basis, especially with the race boats. Guys need pet projects. Mowing the lawn gets old. I know. I'm in this business because I love it.

John

Sounds like a great idea. I've been keeping my eye open for an older cig or magnum that I would strip down and re-rig, but this could be a tempting idea though.

As far as dealing with poor rig jobs..I don't know that that would be a major problem. Guys are out there (re)rigging older boats by themselves as we speak. Besides, I would imagine that the hull (kit), even though blank, wouldn't be cheap, nor would the items needed to finish the boat. This would probably keep most backyard mechanics from attempting.

What about the boats that are for sale now that the previous owner(s) did some less than desirable modifications or re-rigging?

Plus, I don't think anyone who rigged their own boat would cover that up. I know I wouldn't. (in my best little kid voice) "look, look, look! I did this all by myself! I gotta show you how I set up the whatever and thingamabob! i saved $8,000,000, finished it 1 day and made it better than anything else on the water! Aren't you jealous?" :D

I think it sounds like a great idea. More builders should do it.

-Brian

I recall reading something in the Pantera section on OSO about a few Panteras that were not rigged at the factory. The rigging quality was not up to factory standards. I thought I read that some of these boats ended up back at the factory to be re-rigged to Pantera standards.

If "kits" were to made available I think they shoud be under a different name. With some brands it is already confusing enough to determine the history of a boat. An example of this is Velocity/ Thoroughbred / Regal. Which boats were made by Steve Stepp and which were not? Was the quality the same?

Dave M.

I think it would work as long as it is produced under a different name. One of the main problems with our sport is that a lot of people want to join... but PRICES have sky rocketed out of hand.

I think there are 3 main issues that HAVE to be addressed for it to work correctly...1)Quality must be good (solid hull)
2) Market it correctly 3)Fair price

It can work..if we have car kits then why not boat kits.

I know Phantom will sell a boat as a bare hull, or with seats, or any thing else you want him to leave off.

John, congrats on your win on Point Pleasant, you make a great boat. I think many people look for older boats to restore, which means to unrig, and then rerig. You can save them a step. It won't be for everyone but it will open a new market for you.

You can also sell parts, like the wire harness. That's something I wouldn't want to have to make on my own.

An idea if you do this-

Pre-install critical alignment items such as L-angle mounts and transom cutout- Per customer specs- (and after final payment!).

Items such as gauge cutouts could be handled with throwaway ( injection molded) drill templates. Some thinking on these lines would help ensure customer satisfaction with the finished product.

You could also supply a different deck from the standard models, if brand differentation is a concern.

I think its a great idea! And bulldog just beat me to the punch on the ideas! :D

I would have the concerns listed above about quality and safety.
I think if you were to do it, Bulldog has the right idea,
Change the Deck or make it visibly different then a factory finished boat. I would even go with a different name would protect the quality "Superboat" name.
Skater I think is a different deal altogether, I would think the un-rigged skaters are being professionally finished by race teams and riggers.
What does your insurance company say? It may be a mute point if they have a say in it.

John a few years back I remember someone telling me of a guy who came to you for a 30 foot hull. He made a new top deck for it because he wanted a center console. I saw the boat he did a great job on it. I think it was called Colorblind. I was never sure whether the hull was new from you or he found an old one. I just mention the story to show you what lengths someone wll go to inorder to custom a boat to their specs. The question of whether to stamp your name on the kit is a tough one. I would only sell them in stage 2 form as Avanti has it. Motor package to be installed by buyer and hardware like cleats and such also.

Financing would not be available on an incomplete boat.

Insurance may be abother issue.

It's a bad idea. The possible dilution to brand recognition offsets the potential short-term sales increases. Additionally, the inherent risk of being sued due to someone else's mistake in rigging is pretty high in this rather litigious society. You could arrange to sell unfinished boats to a select group of rigging shops or race teams the way that Skater does if you want and let them finish it. Otherwise, there is too much downside.

I think its a great idea. Just like bulldog said --change the top deck to set it apart, possibly offer seat frames--let them pick uphulstery and get done. As far as the x dimension and locations you could have templates included in with the kit, let them cut it out and mount everything. I would think you would want to keep it as generic as possible so that you could have some 'stock', and they could make it as custom as possible. The wiring harness idea probably isn't bad if you're going to be making them for the Superboat line anyway. I can see where this would be great for the racers and poker runners. The legal/insurance issues I think could be overcome with the right waiver in the sales contract. but a good question for a good lawyer still.
What sizes would you be looking at offering??

I get all that brand dilution, safety, whatever stuff, but: All Long Island boat builders, John included, would sell me (more or less gladly) just the hull. It's pretty common in the industry. I don't see what's special here.

What might be special is the marketing idea: Selling a hull with a new twist: As a "kit." Low pricepoint (say, less than 50K for a Y2Kit30), and the possibility to upsell the prospect. Same hull, different positioning. A plain hull targets the dealer/rigger, a kit targets the end user. Who might never finish his project ...

Come to think of it, you can buy a brand new Kryptonite hull right on Ebay: http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...threadid=51634

kit boats
 

there is a good market for a kit boat provided that the manufacturer can offer a package that is easy to complete....i think a boat manufacturer could sell quite a few 26-28 foot single engine deep vee boats as a "turnkey minus" package (to use a term from the kit car industry) meaning a complete boat minus the engine and exhaust....this would be an especially attractive package to many of us that can do our own engine build up but don't want to do the steering, electrical, upholstery, or glass work... the boat builder should sell the boat with a B-max drive already installed, hydraulic steering already plumbed, electrical harness wired back to the engine compartment, so all that the buyer would have to do is drop the engine in, bolt up the mounts and transom assembly, terminate the engine ignition, starting, charging, and insturment sending units, install the exhaust, plumb the fuel system and fire it up...a lot of us have the capability to build and install the engine but don't have time to engineer all of the remaining systems to finish off an offshore powerboat....just my 2 cents worth...from mike at c.t. marine inc.

Litigation Lottery:
If you manufactured the hull only and an injured person subsequently decides to sue, THEY WILL sue! Regardless of who did the rigging.

The question would be the outcome in regards to the degree of liability, which I think would probably be less if the boat was rigged by an individual.

BullFrog:frog: