doubt it. i finished dead last with my formula and we got tagged for changes.

Treadwell

the reason there was no problem was because this was formulas first boat to hit the water. they changed the pleasure into a race boat. all boat were made the same. that was all before the institution of templates for the bottoms of boats.

Treadwell

plus the fact all you people are missing the point. there is no stifling. you are allowed to make changes. the question is did skater follow the proper channles. i personnally have no clue so won't even comment on that.

Treadwell

Mike
Actually I have the rule book....and I am a member of a F1 team... I own a pretty good P4 Warlock if I wanted to race it...and I have been following racing for quite a while. I have raced NHRA since the late 50's so I do know a little about how motorsports operate and how much NHRA has grown. In NHRA pro classes they encourage R&D not stiffle it and dont require racers to stick to the "sponser of the week" for frames or motors. Racing is a constant development of equipment to get the edge. Thats why my old boss is now the #1 pro stock class car in the country. Its taken years of hard work and money, but to those that are willing to make the effort, the feeling of acomplishment is worth it. No NHRA pro racers are required to use a certin engine or frame builder in any catagory. A good example is the 95% rule, started to try to slow the TFD and FC down but the cars are still getting faster. But they do have rules and guidelines that everyone must follow for each class. Most of there rules are for safety. Thats just called competition. If your goal is to want to slow down development, fine, If you want to make a buck by requireing racers to use a certin product, fine, just say so.
It takes money to race Fred, plain and simple, if you want to be the best at something you can find a way. How fast can you afford to go is never so truer then in any kind of racing. Worse yet..how would you feel if you built a boat and motors for a certin class, only to be told when your done that the class no longer exists? Ask the boys from "Switch" How much would you guess a nascar team spends on engines alone? You can make rules and punish people till your blue in the face, but any racer will always be "gaming" it, and trying to out do the next guy.
My point is have firm guidelines that everyone must follow, make em simple so everyone knows going in whats required, enforce them and dont change em every year cause someone has invented the better mousetrap. Eventually the next guy will catch up and more hard work and money will be spent to get better. We've all seen how motorsports have grown in the past 50 years, and I would hope someday offshore will be at least as well known as tractor pulls, or offroad racing. But by all means humanly possible make your priority SAFETY!
Dan

so your point is what. it not plain enough for you in the rule book. we are not nhra. we are forming our modle around nascar. if you can see for youself most people want the rules and see the future or there would be more then 12 boats at an sbi race were there are no rules.

Treadwell

Tread
My point is evryone knows that any kind of racing has rules. Last I heard the nascar teams built there cars around engine guidelines and body templates. But they were allowed to do it on there own, not be forced to have someone do it for them. But besides competition and equipment rules the safety rules are a priority. And who said anything about SBI? I'm with a APBA team.
I know SBI is lax with there rules. Thats there problem and they need to fix it or they wont be 12 boats next year.

Dan

the real question is why was spiderman penalized for DMC"S lack of paperwork. shoulden't DMC get the fines. homligation is up to DMC not spiderman. the weight pentalty makes no sense. spiderman is not going any faster then what was set in the parameters of super v. so why the weight.


Treadwell

hey mike or somebody ca you answer my question. it's not abrasive.

Treadewll

Dan,
With all due respect, this is exactly the case with Skater. Only problem was, Skater didn't follow the proper proceedures, and got fined for it after repeated dialog with APBA Offshore.
Unfortunately, I think this thread, among others has turned this into a regular soap opra.

ok gordo,

whats your opinion. should todd get penalized for what the factory did. should todd get penalized because he called the factory and asked if it was handled and they said yes. if a boat is approved or homolagated then we buy it. if the manufacture makes a change and does not follow up on the paper work is that the racers fault or the factorys. should the racer suffer for the factory's mishapp. i know i relied on formula to do there job and many times they did not and we got **** for it. but what can we as a racer do. we are not employed at the factory. we do not get paid at the factory to do there paper work. so what do you think.????????????????????????????????????????????

Treadewell

also gordo. fines points all of that is fine. but were does the weight penalty come in . as far as the super v parameters go they want a straight away speed of 105. todds boat does 102. so why the weight. weight is only supposed to be used to create parity. in otherwise slow one guy down so the others have a chance. but if your not even at the guidline then whats the problem. just because one racer did there homework and the others ate dinner he has to suffer.???????????????????????

When? Who? Where?

The biggest budget "major manufacturers" have outside of labor and materials....is marketing.

Most testing is done by the poor schnooks who buy the boats....not the ones who build them.

One other aside....... Didn't Cigarette get away with campaigning two different step bottom( single and twin step) variants in Factory 2 a couple of years ago?

T2x

Eric,
This was my question and or point. Some years ago I was in a meeting with some APBA officials and was told not to use the word penalty in the same sentence with added weight! I totally agree with your post #64,68. Todd and crew worked vary hard to settle the boat down and make it drivable. Also a 4th place and a 1st place finises dons't send a massage of dominance! I also heard that this change was no secret and they were not trying to slip it by anyone! So I guess that this is about not doing the paperwork in a timely fashion. Do I think its fair that the spiderman team is penalized no. Money regenerates the points do not, the weight doesn't't either. It cost a west coast team alot of money to compete on the east coast IE: traveling, maintenance to name a few. If it was about boating Todd could run one of his other boats around on the west coast and save alot of money.
Lord knows we (POPRA) could use more boats/participation. As far as threads like this one being good or bad I personally think there fine
until they get personal with other racers or officials. I personally know some of the officials. Paul Abreu,Mike Tomlinson, Van DePiero and Dee Kimes and I have the utmost respect for them they are all outstanding, honorable, and honist people also
I believe that the same person that hired them also hired the ones I don't know so I have to believe that they are of the same character!! APBA offshore is what it is today because of there hardwork.
Your Friend, Brian

Treadwell, I wish someone would explain the weight issue also. Is it because their quad step hull works so well??? They were obviously weighed prior for APBA to allow them to race Super V so why add it now?? Someone must know.

Mike
I guess I didnt make myself clear..its hard to do on a computer, but my suggestion was to have spec engines and homoed hulls in F1-2 and SVL, SCL. Thats for the guys that are looking for a turn key setup and dont want to look for a engine builder etc. But SC and SV should be limited to a 500ci NA motor with #6 drives and a weight. It should be eaiser for the inspect to check, CI is easy, all you need to do is pull the plugs, and weight is at the crane. If you want to try to limit speed, which I dont think you should, have a spec carb. The guys in those classes already have pit crews, big transporters etc and can afford to have any engine builder in the country build em engines. And there are hundreds. Why limit it to just 1 guy??? As for blowers, not a good idea, we seen what that does. Each team ought to be able to have its own engine program. The crummy builders will be weeded out.

Gordo
Wasnt tryin to turn this into a soap. Just tryin to make things better. If you dont move ahead, your falling behind.
And I agree 100% if Skater screwed up with the current rules...shame on em
Dan

Oh I get it.Constant ugrading like the Unlimited Hydroplanes, right?

They ended up with a few guys (& eventually just one) with $$ to craft innovation drove the class right to the brink of extinction.What works in the auto racing doesn't always mean it will work with boats.