What's the difference between Apache and Cigarette?
 

to me the hull looks the same. the apaches appear to be shortened or stretched 38 cigs. i understand that apache puts a lot more effort into the build process, but are the hulls the same design?

ask don aronow, only he knows!!!!:p

The Apache was done after Cigarette and the purpose was solely to get a single hull from the Mold that was split for the 39 cat.

Also another boat the Squadron 12 had wider Strakes than the Cigarette or Apache.

The new Apache 41 which is being done right now is all CNC With a very sophisticated build up; the net end result will be a perfect Boat!

Steve, I had a guy rell me the other day that my Super Hawaii 34, which I understand is the Arronow 32, was originally a Squadron. Any insight?
The strakes are "about" ( I have never measured them) 4"

Can'not help you there Payton it is a good possability though that your boat has Aronow genes.I have heard that story before.

Jeez...
 

What some people will make up to convince people they own a Cigarette!!


;) :p :D

Just kidding, brother. Hope all is well on the farm.

CW

Hey Willie!! I resemble that remark! haha

All is well, even got the boat wet for a few minutes today.

Hope to see you on the water soon
Mark

Apache gave me a free t-shirt awhile back!

nothing from Cigarette so far :D

Apache knows building / zoning codes and Cigarette doesn't - BH

BH, funny :)

i'm not asking about the NEW apache and new cigs, but the older cigs and apaches.

look at an older apache 36 and a 38 cig. what are the differences in design other than 2'?

Yeah....Me too. Nice shirts by the way. I don`t think you can get them anymore though. I think Cig spent all their free t shirt money on their new building. At least we could be using the t shirts.

I think its fair to say the 42 Apache(80's) is a stretched (via the transom) 38(39) Cigarette, thus giving the hull a longer constant section. The decks are different. The 42 was stretched to create the 47. If you look at the 47's(in side view) near the transom area you can see that eventually the the deck and hull lines converge. Stretch it 15 more feet and the transom height would be 0.

I am speculating that the 36 was made from a damned up 42 mold.

Because the Apache were made in a different shop, one would assume the glass layup schedule is different, with Apache using a few more layers of glass(total speculation on my part). I believe this was before they started using balsa core.

Aronow stretched/modified old designs to create "new" ones, which makes sense from a business perspective.

Some of this is according to the book Speed Kills(the 39 to 42). I presume the author got this info from Mark Mcmanus who worked for both Cig and Apache.


vtec

The Apache measuring down from the chine, This on the Keel at the Bow or "Stem" would measure 25" to the first set of Spray Rails.

The second difference is Apache does in fact have A licensed and Very for real Fiber-Glass shop in Dade County.

Streaching the old Cigarette I do not think so.... Ever measure or rig an old 39 ??? it's way Off at the transom Centerline!!like 1 1/2"+
Due to the projections of the error in the old 35 .just thought you should Know.

Could you please enlighten me by elaborating a little? Especially about the "old 35 ". Thank you.

Cigwillie

In the old days when the trend to wards longer boats first took place the 36 cigarette was lengthened to 40 feet but Aronow sold that mold.

The same with the 35 it became the 39’ now looking at it the shear line …. At 39 feet this placed the free-board too low to be usable so in typical fashion of the day it was simply ramped up (ugly) like a tail-fin from a 57 Plymouth. To gain the needed Height.

But remember when extending lines…. any and all error is also exaggerated by this and anything not symmetrical with the center line ( Keel in this case) would show up on the furthest point This being the new transom.

These boats were built originally from glassed plywood Plugs Faired by the glass shop guys, Also too the “human factor” would have made its presence very well known...The joke was in those days you measured their shoes with all the glass hanging off and that was the Strike width so they would not fall of the Mold when laying it up.

There were no Large CNC Booths in those days in fact MIT was still stealing the Idea from the original Genus.. So the accuracy of the Boat was in reality and fact the ability of the Plug builder.

steve, could you go into some detail on how the 36 apache varies form the 38 cig? where did the respective hulls come from? also, how did the apache and cigarette layup schedules differ back then?

thanks for the info.

Lay up schedule's BACK THEN were probably very simular since Bob was educated by Don Aronow. Today, Bob is still doing it the same way he was taught and Cigarette seems to have tried new things.

All I know is they're both great-looking boats!

Well Said Fred!

DredgeKing I am doing a log book now will have the Information on the convergence (of Dead rise) the constant running surface, and the rake of the stem. And so forth in the very near future.

Payton, In regards to your Super Hawaii 34, You have a great piece of Offshore history. The Boats where originally called "Super Hero" boats until the owner was sued by Marvel Comics. He set out to build the worlds best offshore boat. Spent a fortune on the factory and tooling, The boats actually ran great in the big waves of Hawaii. Scott Williams who at times pokes his nose in this site knows alot about the boat, the owner, and the company history. The whole story (as most in boating) are worth sitting down with a cold one and listening to. The last Super Hawaii 34 I saw was rotting away in Hawaii Kia Marina on Oahu. Cashbrain should get his hands on it for his next resurrection! Hang on to that boat, it is a great piece of history!

To the best of my recollection. (20+ years ago may have diminished the memory as to exact dates)

Original 37'6" (Ajac Hawk etal) was from plugged 39 mold. The transom angle was reduced to 11 degrees which was normal for race boats at that time to reduce wear on joints between the drive and the tail stock assembly. A replacement boat was made for the Ajac Hawk out of the 39 mold sometime late 82/83.

38' Top Gun was new mold derived from the 39 mold as well. Rear deck gunnel was raised 4" to 6" to clear then Hawk 500's that had Dominator Carbs and large flame arrestors so that they could have a flat hatch with sun cushion. This was a design change by Jerry Burton and Jerry Jacoby when Integrated Resources and Founders Equity owned Cigarette.

39 USA Cat and 41 Apache were derivitives of the 37'6" replacement to the Cigarette Hawk (Ajac Hawk). Hull and deck was never rigged as a race boat and was later rigged by Bob Moore and sold as pleasure boat cir 1985. Both hull molds were built by Mark McManus in the old Signature building (later Tempest and Pantera across from current TNT building).

Smaller USA Cat was an original plug from plywood cir 1984

AC

Re: What's the difference between Apache and Cigarette?
 

:evilb: