silent choice illegal in n.y. ?
 

was out boating upstate ny last weekend ( lake george ) and was pulled over by authorities and told that silent choice exhaust is illegal in n.y. state is this true and why ?

I think they were somewhat misinformed. Most states use the SAE J2005 spec for testing. It stipulates that the reading be taken with any type of switching device disabled. In other words, they want to test you at your loudest. Now some states have made the law say that it must be disabled and some have actually said it is illegal to have it operating-with no mention of the test-duh. You will need to look up the law and see how New York wrote it-they may have screwed up and actually made it illegal to have switching exhaust.:rolleyes:

Switchable exhaust has been illegal in Alabama since 1959,it is called an exhaust cutout device. Got involved in a case in 1986 on a Glastron. Owner said he would fight the ticket, the state backed down. Law is still on the books but not enforced. Common sense says that a devise that can quiten a boat down is better than straight thru exhaust which is legal,go figure.

I do not believe that "silent choice" type exhaust is illegal in NY. Navigation Law section 44. 2(a) requires compliance with SAE J2005. I will check further into the law on "cut outs".

Dave

After a little research, I found that the section of NYS Navigation Law that made reference to "cut outs" was repealed on 2/3/94. There might be some "Local" or "County" regulations that the officer was referring to. You only state that the "authorities" pulled you over, was it the State Police or a County Sheriff? If you let me know, I will attempt to contact them and find out more information.

Dave

Silent Choice
 

Lake George is patroled by NYS Police,Warren County Sheriffs and the Lake George Patrol.

Typically LG Patrol issues the most noise tickets. The present decibel level I believe is 87. You can never keep it straight because they are always trying to sneak through lower levels.

The switchable exhaust has to do with an old law on the books to do with cars with cut outs.

This is just their way to welcome tourists.

NYS Navigational Law, as pertaining to exhaust. Note: It is illegal to bypass a muffler system " to reduce or eliminate the effectiveness of any muffler or muffler system installed."

Using a silent choice system is just the opposite. It increases the effectiveness of any muffler installed. And it would certainly not "reduce or eliminate" the effectiveness of a non-installed muffler system.


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§ 44. Noise levels on pleasure vessels.
1. The provisions of this section shall apply to the navigable waters of the state including all tidewaters bordering on and lying within the boundaries of Nassau and Suffolk counties.
2.
(a) No person shall operate or give permission for the operation of any pleasure vessel in or upon the waters of this state in such a manner as to exceed a noise level of 90dB(A) when subjected to a stationary sound level test as prescribed by SAE J2005.
(b) No person shall operate a pleasure vessel on the waters of this state in such a manner as to exceed a noise level of 75dB(A) measured as specified in SAE J1970. Provided, that such measurement shall not preclude a stationary sound level test as prescribed by SAE J2005.

3. Sale or manufacture. No person shall manufacture or offer for sale any pleasure vessel or engine for use in a pleasure vessel for use on the waters of this state if such vessel or engine, at the time of manufacture or sale, cannot be operated in such a manner so as to comply with the sound level requirements provided in this section.
4. No person shall operate or give permission for the operation of any pleasure vessel in or upon the waters of this state that is equipped with an altered muffler or a muffler cutout, bypass or otherwise reduce or eliminate the effectiveness of any muffler or muffler system installed in accordance with this section.
5. No person shall remove, alter or otherwise modify in any way a muffler or muffler system in a manner which will prevent it from being operated in accordance with this section.
6. Exceptions. The provisions of this section shall not apply to pleasure vessels designed, manufactured and sold for the sole purpose of competing in racing events and for no other purpose. Any such exemption or exception shall be so documented in any and every sale agreement and shall be formally acknowledged by signature on the part of both the buyer and the seller and copies of said agreement shall be maintained by both parties. A copy shall be kept on board whenever the pleasure vessel is operated. Any pleasure vessel sold under this exemption may only be operated on the waters of this state in accordance with this section.
The provisions of this section shall also not apply to:
(a) Pleasure vessels which are competing in or participating for a definite race over a given course held under the auspices of any bona fide club or racing association between the hours of nine o'clock in the morning and sunset, which has been approved pursuant to the provisions of section thirty-four of this chapter, and all provisions of such section have been complied with or pursuant to authorization by the commandant of the United States Coast Guard.
(b) An authorized agent of the federal, state or municipal government when operating a pleasure vessel necessary to carry out his or her official duty of enforcement, search and rescue, firefighting or research programs.
(c) A pleasure vessel being operated by a boat or marine engine manufacturer for the purposes of testing and/or development.
(d) A pleasure vessel manufactured prior to nineteen hundred sixty-five.
7. Any officer authorized to enforce the provisions of this section who has reason to believe that a pleasure vessel is not in compliance with the noise levels established in this section may direct the operator of such pleasure vessel to submit the pleasure vessel to an on-site test to measure noise level, with the officer on board if such officer chooses, and the operator shall comply with such request. If such pleasure vessel exceeds the decibel levels established in this section, the officer may direct the operator to take immediate and reasonable measures to correct the violation, including returning the pleasure vessel to a mooring and keeping the pleasure vessel at such mooring until the violation is corrected or ceases.
8. Any officer who conducts pleasure vessel sound level tests as provided in this section shall be qualified in pleasure vessel noise testing by the department of parks, recreation and historic preservation. Such qualifications shall include but may not be limited to the selection of the measurement site, and the calibration and use of noise testing equipment.
9. Penalties.
(a) Any person who fails to comply with the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a violation punishable by a fine not to exceed fifty dollars for the first offense and not exceeding two hundred fifty dollars for a second or subsequent offense. However, the court shall waive any fine for which a person who violates the provisions of this section would be liable if such person supplies the court with proof within thirty days of the issuance of the summons that he purchased his pleasure vessel prior to the effective date of this section, that the pleasure vessel's muffler was not altered or made inoperable so as to result in a violation of the provisions of this section, and that the pleasure vessel has been repaired, altered or modified so as to be in compliance with the provisions of this section. Provided, however, that such waiver of fine shall not apply to a second or subsequent conviction under this section.
(b) Any person who alters or makes inoperable an effective muffler system so that such system is no longer in compliance with this section shall be guilty of a violation punishable by a fine of not less than fifty dollars nor more than two hundred fifty dollars.
(c) All fines and forfeitures collected pursuant to the provisions of this section by any court, judge, magistrate or other officer referred to in subdivision one of section thirty-nine of the judiciary law, establishing a unified court budget, shall be paid to the state commissioner of taxation and finance, within the first ten days of the month following collection to be deposited in a fund known as the boating noise level enforcement fund established pursuant to section ninety-one-b of the state finance law. The office of parks, recreation and historic preservation shall distribute the fines to local law enforcement officials according to the provisions of section seventy-nine-b of this chapter for the purpose of enforcing the provisions of this section.
10. All fines and forfeitures collected by any other court, judge or magistrate or other officer shall be paid to the state comptroller within the first ten days of the month following collection to be deposited in a fund known as the boating noise level enforcement fund established pursuant to section ninety-one-b of the state finance law. The office of parks, recreation and historic preservation shall distribute the fines to local law enforcement officials according to the provisions of section seventy-nine-b of this chapter for the purpose of enforcing the provisions of this section.

"Silent Choice" (with other brands aka "Sound Choice" etc.) is a switchable system that runs the exhaust below the waterline and out through the prop(s) through what's called a "Y-Pipe." This is (when switched on) the most effective sound reduction system under the sun.

This discussion is headed "silent choice illegal in n.y.?" It is not illegal. Bypassing a muffler system to reduce or eliminate its effectiveness is illegal.

Whether a manufacturer ignores the law or not (many do), the onus is on the operator who may not exeed 90dB according to SAE J2005 (or 75dB according to SAE J1970.)

I would challenge any ticket written without the ascribed testing procedure, performed by a qualified officer.

26 sonic , hi

I am the one with the hustler, i met you last week. They hassle me all the time. what you do is do not cooperate at all, do not help them hold there boat against yours and remind him that if he scratches your custom paint job he is going to have problems, then tell him he is more than welcome to do his test but you do not feel comfortable operating your vessel with someone that close to the back so he will have to do it, just be such a pain in the ass that they never want to pull you over again.
I actually saw you get pulled over, he started after me when he left your boat, i was just leaving the docks at neptunes, I just put the hammer down and did not let up until indian kettles(the view), that dick head never stood a chance but i give him credit he did not give up until the sagamore, I could see him coming way back in the distance, lol.
Another thing i dispise is having to purchase those lake george permits, The money generated by those permits is supposed to be for research and preserving the lake, if that is what it was used for I would not have a problem with buying one, but they use the money to buy more patrol boats, and hire more officers, so they can make sure that they have enough man power to screw with everyone on the lake.

dckrafft the lake george police pulled us over in the villageand told us our "silent choice or switchable exhaust " was illegal in ny state. he then made us turn off the mufflers so he could hear the exhaust coming out the back of the swim platform and proceeded in taking a 3 ft ruler and measuring 3foot off the swim platform and using a decibal meter at the end of the ruler to get a reading at idle. he measured 88 decibels and said the limit was 90 decibels. he said we were legal as far as noise but could at any time issue us a ticket for the switchable exhaust !

It sure does suck! To compound the problem try being a homeowner on the lake and you have to pay wharf (dock) registration fees as well. There was also a push to make from Tea Island south, across the whole lake 5MPH and it was all done in secrecy. Then word got out and we fought it big time and will continue to do so. I have printed out a copy of the law and will carry it in the Skater, although not having offshore housings the noise is really quiet until on plane. The Lake George Park Commission is really a bunch of wanna be cops that are on a power trip. You need to be firm but not nasty with them if you are correct. Do not let them push you around and request their name a badge number, to which you have a right. Also, keep a copy of the law with you. When they begin their speech on legalities ask them to site the section number, and sub-section and when they cannot pull out your copy. You need to again be respectful but steadfast in your position. I agree that the politicans (for whom law enforcement ultimately work for) fail to recognize the value of the tourist dollar. Just like with Americade. Let the bikes be loud for 3 or 4 days. If it werent for Americade businesses could not afford to be open in June. Noise is not in any way a detriment to the water quality of the lake, however, boaters are often times not tax payers (aside from sales tax) and therefore are easy targets. Many of the people that are complaining are lake side residents that have ancient boats (equals LOUD) and ancient homes and septic systems. These same people argue that their 1940's-1950's wodden boats need not comply with the sound restrictions and they should be grandfathered. I say noise is noise. If I need to to retrofit my boat so so you! By law each system is to be tested every five years to ensure proper operation. Mine has been in since 1985 and has NEVER been tested. Additionally, the allowance of continuous building and over population of lake side properties with condominiums and paved driveways is of far greater detriment to the quality of the lake than any other factor. Which is why I will NOT pave my driveway. It remains crushed stone so as to filter out as much storm and road run off as possible.

Obviously, both law enforcement and the boating community appears to be a little confused about the issues. Note: This discussion pertains to NYS law, as per the thread title. Other states may or may not have similar laws, check your local listings.

1.) Repeat after me: Silent Choice is not a switchable muffler. Silent Choice routes the exhaust below the water line and through the prop hub, making the exhaust for all intents and purposes silent. A switchable muffler is a muffler than can be rendered inoperative at the flick of a switch.

2.) The law as cited above is surprisingly clear: You may not "bypass or otherwise reduce or eliminate the effectiveness of any muffler or muffler system installed." Installing a Silent Choice system does not eliminate the effictiveness, the opposite is true. If there is a muffler system and you are bypassing it to reduce its effectiveness, you are breaking the law. If there is no muffler system, then the person or company who has sold you the boat has probably broken the law. If you then install a switchable muffler, you are not breaking the law. But:

3.) The point above is quickly moot, because "no person shall operate or give permission for the operation of any pleasure vessel in or upon the waters of the state of New York in such a manner as to exceed a noise level of 90dB(A) when subjected to a stationary sound level test as prescribed by SAE J2005 ... or as to exceed a noise level of 75dB(A) measured as specified in SAE J1970." And herein lies the rub.

Both test procedures are notoriously hard to implement and tickets issued with references to these procedures usually do not hold up in court. A detailed discussion would be very technical and besides the scope of this post. Suffice it to say that the University of Michigan concluded that "the testing procedures given in SAE J2005 and J1970 are both impractical and nearly impossible to enforce in practice. These procedures, even in the hands of trained, experienced officers do not provide representative, repeatable, easily conducted measurements of vehicle operating sound."

This is good and bad news.

The good news is that with knowledge of the law, the authorities can be kept at bay. Challenge an officer to conduct a test according to SAE J2005 or SAE J1970 and he will most likely back down, because he doesn't have the equipment, the training, or the time to back up a $50 ticket, which the court will most likely throw out if you promise to fit mufflers. You will notice that there is an increasing number of reports about law enforcement stopping boaters because of noise violations, but very little reports about actual tests. Whipping out a dB meter is not a valid test as far as the SAE is concerned.


The bad news is that youb are not the only one who knows that. These regulations are about to be replaced by much tougher, much more enforceable regulations. If you think these laws are bad, then look to California. Their new laws are so tough that pretty much the only way to comply with them is with permanent below the waterline exhaust. And trust me, there is someone in your state who is right now working on bringing these regulations to your state, sooner than later.

Whether the rest of the country will have California-style laws or not is also in our hands. We can provoke it by running open exhaust all day and night long. Or we can delay it by observing the laws that are on our books. One of the best arguments against new laws is: "We don't need them. We need to observe and enforce existing ones."

Which means: Put a muffler on that boat. There are new ones that do not degrade performance in any way. Cost: About two or three tanks of gas. Those who won't listen (they probably lost their hearing anyway) are killing our sport by bringing CA-style regulations upon us.

Just to try and help clarify this issue. The silent choice is not the illegal part the sound level is. If you have silent choice, but you still have mufflers on the external exhaust that keeps you below the legal limit then you are legal. When they say silent choice is illegal, they mean that just because you have the capability to quiet the exhaust does not make you legal. Your boat has to be tested at the "loudest" mode and if you pass you are ok whether or not you have silent choice isn't the issue. Think about it, you can't make it be louder than the legal limit no matter which way you throw the switch so how can that be illegal. It isn't.

But most people with silect choice do not have mufflers on them. That is where the confussion comes in. ET

It appears item#4 is the issue. Does routing the exhaust thru the hub constitute a muffling system? By the very fact that it does drop the db level, it could be argued( by a motivated DA)that it is in fact a muffling system. Therefore, if it functions as a muffling system, it can not have the cut-out provision and still comply with this section. However, if the boat was to be the same db level with thru the hub or thru the hull, then this provision is not applicable.

The other interesting item is #8, regarding actual training of personel to conduct the test. I would be curious as to how many have had actual training, particular as to implementation of SAEJ2005 and SAEJ1970.

Luckily, the locals have not bothered with the silent choice users. I personally went shotgun silencer route, great product that works, and no cut-out issue. But. I still got hassled 1X when no one else was out in the water and locals had time to kill. Pointed to the shotgun silencers and that was the end of that subject!

Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending how you look at it, they know where I live, but I have served in the fire service with many of them or when I was in college working at the marina repaired many of their boats. I have been fortunate in that they will usually stop by the house, have a Pepsi or coffee and shoot he breeze and make it look good for the awnery old farts. Little do they know we are socializing. I also, take 'em for a blast in the off season and they love it.

Formulafastech has it right though. With a go fast they will find you. There are only so many of us on the lake and there are only a finite number of places to hide. However, in all my years at the lake, (31), if you are not stupid and do not go 80 on July 4th weekend between the narrows and the village at noon, and keep it at a modest rate, they will just look the other way. Also, if you run during the week, stay away from shore and other boaters, they will look away as well. And if you REALLY HAVE to run the snot out of it, go north of the Mother Bunch and stay in the middle and you will not get hasseled. A little common sense goes a LONG LONG way! If I can be of any further help to anyone with regard to concerns on the lake please let me know. If anyone is out this weekend, my house is in Basin Bay, stop by and say hi. The FORMULA hangs in the boat house, the Skater sits on mooring whips on the north side, and there are 2 PWC's on lifts on the south side. If you come in tie up perpendicular to the dock.

Right on! You gonna be up this weekend?

I am a little confused. I thought that "silent choice" or "captains call" switched the "wet" through hull exhaust to propeller/underwater exit? How does this turn the mufflers on and off?

Dckrafft: You aren't confused. They are. Silent Choice et al work the way you describe it.

The bottom line: It depends on how the law is being interpreted.

I have a house down on the east shore across from the village.
The lg patrol are pretty good & really dont hassle you if
boat with some respect. They mostly hassle the people out
there that are driving like maniacs. When you leave the village
wide open, 2 &3 boats together,the see you. They may not
hassle you then,but sooner or later they remember your boat
then they go after you. Watch out for that chick with the blonde
hair. Shes the meanest LG on the lake. (something to prove)!!

Folks, let's face it: The easiest way to catch attention is to make a lot of noise. Make noise, heads will turn. Make noise and people will look for you even if they don't see you. And if we are honest, that's the intended effect.

The trouble is: When they have located us, most people don't look at us in awe. They look at us in disgust. They look for the source of noise and hate us. They have the urge to turn that loud noise off. Do we really need all those enemies? For what?

I'd rather be fast and stealthy. I don't want to be a Stuka. I want to be a B1. I don't even want them to know what hit 'em.

Anyone have copies of J1970 and J2005? I would like to see them, then we will know if the cops are performing the test correctly.