HP 525 overheating?
07-07-2003, 01:19 PM
#21
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Nick,
Unless he is saying that the ECU programming is the same for both the 500 and the 525 then I do not see the relevance. The cooling system is not borrowed, ECU is not borrowed, and a good portion of the Fuel Injection System is not borrowed.
This is the second time that MC has made this statement with nothing to back it up. I would like to know on what basis he is saying this and which components are the problem.
Besides, the GM engines has similar issues that were dealt with when they were first released. I don't see this as being any different.
I also do not see the wisdom in aluminum cylinder heads in salt water but hey, the warranty is pretty short anyway.
Unless he is saying that the ECU programming is the same for both the 500 and the 525 then I do not see the relevance. The cooling system is not borrowed, ECU is not borrowed, and a good portion of the Fuel Injection System is not borrowed.
This is the second time that MC has made this statement with nothing to back it up. I would like to know on what basis he is saying this and which components are the problem.
Besides, the GM engines has similar issues that were dealt with when they were first released. I don't see this as being any different.
I also do not see the wisdom in aluminum cylinder heads in salt water but hey, the warranty is pretty short anyway.
Last edited by Adivanman; 07-07-2003 at 01:22 PM.
07-07-2003, 11:28 PM
#23
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Re: BULLSH*T
Originally posted by yourconscience
This is simply the LLLC and Mike Allwussie covering up for thier sponsor Mercury.
This is simply the LLLC and Mike Allwussie covering up for thier sponsor Mercury.
The 525 boats dropped like flies this weekend [/B]
07-08-2003, 02:49 AM
#24
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaashut up all of you. so randy had a problem. one motor out of how many. i am sure merc will fix it. nobody else is having the problem.
Treadwell
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07-08-2003, 07:28 AM
#26
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Mike,
As far as I know there was only the one 525 problem at Savannah (although there could have been others that have not been discussed as of yet). The cost to the owners (thus far) is some prize money and series points.
The engine did not grenade, it did not melt, it was not destroyed. It reached 200 degrees and the computer put it into limp mode. That safety feature may have cost the team the race but may also have saved the engine from potential damage.
This is the first failure seen in competition and as Treadwell said, Mercury needs to look at the issue before they can fix and I think that most everyone believes that they will fix it. At this point we don't know if it was due to the engine package, a hose pinched while rigging, or something as simple as a sock stuck in the raw water intake. You are making some very robust claims ("The HP525 is not near as reliable as the HP 500 carb or EFI and all of the racing world knows it." ) based upon a very isolated incident. I believe that there several similar occurances in F1 with the Vortec powerplants last year (water circulation problems leading to high temperatures and sending the computer into limp mode) but teams have been able to improve their packages to minimize the potential for these failures.
Again, I ask the technical question, what is the specific problem with the 525? You believe and some of your sources agree with you that what is the problem? If it is the cooling system, what is the problem? If it is the fuel injction system, what is the problem?
As far as I know there was only the one 525 problem at Savannah (although there could have been others that have not been discussed as of yet). The cost to the owners (thus far) is some prize money and series points.
The engine did not grenade, it did not melt, it was not destroyed. It reached 200 degrees and the computer put it into limp mode. That safety feature may have cost the team the race but may also have saved the engine from potential damage.
This is the first failure seen in competition and as Treadwell said, Mercury needs to look at the issue before they can fix and I think that most everyone believes that they will fix it. At this point we don't know if it was due to the engine package, a hose pinched while rigging, or something as simple as a sock stuck in the raw water intake. You are making some very robust claims ("The HP525 is not near as reliable as the HP 500 carb or EFI and all of the racing world knows it." ) based upon a very isolated incident. I believe that there several similar occurances in F1 with the Vortec powerplants last year (water circulation problems leading to high temperatures and sending the computer into limp mode) but teams have been able to improve their packages to minimize the potential for these failures.
Again, I ask the technical question, what is the specific problem with the 525? You believe and some of your sources agree with you that what is the problem? If it is the cooling system, what is the problem? If it is the fuel injction system, what is the problem?
07-08-2003, 10:11 AM
#27
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Originally posted by Adivanman
As far as I know there was only the one 525 problem at Savannah (although there could have been others that have not been discussed as of yet). The cost to the owners (thus far) is some prize money and series points....
...I believe that there several similar occurances in F1 with the Vortec powerplants last year (water circulation problems leading to high temperatures and sending the computer into limp mode) but teams have been able to improve their packages to minimize the potential for these failures.
As far as I know there was only the one 525 problem at Savannah (although there could have been others that have not been discussed as of yet). The cost to the owners (thus far) is some prize money and series points....
...I believe that there several similar occurances in F1 with the Vortec powerplants last year (water circulation problems leading to high temperatures and sending the computer into limp mode) but teams have been able to improve their packages to minimize the potential for these failures.
First, there were a number of boats with 525's that did not finish. I can probably list them if you would like.
As for costs, Of course there is the prize money difference from first and second, (or worse for some), but what price can you put on points? A single overheat can cost you a National high points series Championship, &/or a World Championship. Talk about costs!
Your statement of similar occurrences with Vortec in Factory 1 last year is simply not possible since the GM Vortec powerplant was not allowed in the Factory classes by APBA until this year.
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Abby-someone
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07-08-2003, 12:03 PM
#28
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Gordo,
With respect to Savannah, I was not aware of any other HP 525 related failures that resulted in a team not finishing. What other failures were seen?
I agree, points are more often more valuable that equipment, especially when persuing a championship. That not withstanding, the discussion up to that point seemed to center on the cost of the engine and the lack of warranty.
And you are, of course, correct - I misspoke (or mistyped). What I should have siad was
"I believe that there several similar occurances in competition with the Vortec powerplants last year (water circulation problems leading to high temperatures and sending the computer into limp mode) but teams have been able to improve their packages to minimize the potential for these failures."
My example would be your own experience. You did not finish two races due to overheating and limp mode related issues with your Vortec powerplant. You (and others) learned from your experiences.
With respect to Savannah, I was not aware of any other HP 525 related failures that resulted in a team not finishing. What other failures were seen?
I agree, points are more often more valuable that equipment, especially when persuing a championship. That not withstanding, the discussion up to that point seemed to center on the cost of the engine and the lack of warranty.
And you are, of course, correct - I misspoke (or mistyped). What I should have siad was
"I believe that there several similar occurances in competition with the Vortec powerplants last year (water circulation problems leading to high temperatures and sending the computer into limp mode) but teams have been able to improve their packages to minimize the potential for these failures."
My example would be your own experience. You did not finish two races due to overheating and limp mode related issues with your Vortec powerplant. You (and others) learned from your experiences.
Platinum Member
07-09-2003, 10:01 AM
#30
Charter Member #94
Charter Member
Now we're closer to the same page.
You're right, we did have two overheats. Both times was due to the water hose from the Bravo drive to the transom plate. After the first time, Mercury told us to cut the hose shorter. When it happened the second time we tried a different approach and fixed it for good. Fortunately the GM Vortec went into failsafe mode both times, so there was no damage to the engine itself.
As for the warranty on the Mercury 525's, I hope Treadwell is correct and that Mercury takes care of Randy and the Typhoon boat. As you know, I have been pretty outspoken about the warranty, (or lack thereof) for the factory race teams, especially considering we paid the same as the average pleasure boater for our equipment and advertised Mercury all over the place.
I hope things are changing for the better, and Mercury steps up for Randy and his new motor.
You're right, we did have two overheats. Both times was due to the water hose from the Bravo drive to the transom plate. After the first time, Mercury told us to cut the hose shorter. When it happened the second time we tried a different approach and fixed it for good. Fortunately the GM Vortec went into failsafe mode both times, so there was no damage to the engine itself.
As for the warranty on the Mercury 525's, I hope Treadwell is correct and that Mercury takes care of Randy and the Typhoon boat. As you know, I have been pretty outspoken about the warranty, (or lack thereof) for the factory race teams, especially considering we paid the same as the average pleasure boater for our equipment and advertised Mercury all over the place.
I hope things are changing for the better, and Mercury steps up for Randy and his new motor.
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