Boat sinking at LOTO ?
 

After just getting back from LOTO
last night, and going to view new post,
and seeing countless threads with the word
"bush" in the title, and having to sort through
all of them :rolleyes:

I didn't see anything mentioned
about the 31 ft. perfomance boat that sunk
leaving party cove, just past the turn,
friday around 5pm.

Anybody know the facts?

I have some info. but don't want to
be spreading any, if unaccurate.

jt

Very sad and unfortunate, it's hard to believe a 31' cruiser would swamp.

Woman drowns when boat goes down in Glaize with boat, drowns

Cruiser swamped by wakes on Grand Glaize Arm, passenger trapped in cabin

By Joyce L. Miller

LAKE OF THE OZARKS - A 35-year-old woman drowned when the cruiser she was on sank on the Grand Glaize Arm of Lake of the Ozarks.

According to the Missouri Water Patrol, the body of Wendy Gott of Barnhart, Mo., was recovered inside the cabin of the 31-foot Chris Craft about three hours after it sank near the 3-mile marker of the Glaize Friday.

The boat was outside the no-wake zone that stretches from the mouth of the Grand Glaize Arm to near the Moorings Yacht Club.

A Water Patrol spokesman said the boat was stopped in the main channel of the Grand Glaize when it was hit by a series of large wakes. The first wakes to hit the boat filled the engine compartment. The second round of wakes breaking over the boat caused it to sink stern first. Witnesses said the bow was pointing straight up as the boat sank.

A diver from a private company was brought in to help with recovery efforts. He said he found the stern resting in mud in about 70 feet of water. The bow was still pointing up.

Water Patrol officers said the description matched the sequence of events provided by seven people thrown from the boat when it started sinking.

The Water Patrol said the seven survivors were picked up by boaters who stopped to help.

Witnesses said the boat was idling when it started to take on water. They said waves rolling over the boat were over six feet high.

Efforts to re-start the engine failed as the compartment filled up. The passengers said there wasn't a lot of time between the first and second round of waves. Gott was apparently in the cabin and didn't get out in time.

The Water Patrol said the boat was coming from Party Cove headed toward the Grand Glaize Bridge.

Gott's is the third boating-related drowning of the season at Lake of the Ozarks.

That's the way I heard it too.
Friends that were coming up on it
said it went down it about 20 seconds.
They also saw a deck type boat swamped
just leaving the cove.
I had my first experience with water coming
over the bow, when we were just past the
moorings, on the way in,
thanks to a 440 sea ray:eek:

Any bets they make it NO WAKE the whole
way in, on holiday's ??????

jt

That is where I see it going......The deck boat probably was small enough that it was required to have flotation

Cruisers on LOTO
 

You can expect more no wake areas on the Lake. Our neiborhood is starting the process to "No Wake" the cove. Everyone has had it with the cruisers who can't figure out what idle means. According to the Water Patrol officer we talked to, headquarters has considered making every cove on the Lake no wake and the whole Lake idle speed at night. What's next, 30 mph daytime speed limit????

Every cove and bay on Lake Havasu is now a no wake zone due to sinking boats by inconsiderate boaters..

I bet you it is comming to you guys at LOTO. Too bad I have never been there, but we are planning a trip next memorial day.

I saw an article on this. The boat was out of the cove in the channel. Apparently it was off plane when a wave came over the stern and swamped the engines. A second one came over and pushed the transom under thus sinking it. 6 people survived and the lady that died was in the cabin. Naturally nobody had life preservers on-but why would they? This incident will be used as the reasoning behind extended no wake zones, but in reality it sounds more like a freek incident. Anybody that is off plane down there is going to be hurting. This past spring we got towed by a 30' Formula. The water was so rough that the transom actually went under water because the wave face was so steep. When I saw green water on his back deck, I told my wife to get the knife out so I could cut the line if things went wrong.

Are boat drivers responsible for the own wakes at LOTO? I'm pretty sure on the Mississippi boat captains are responsible for your own wake. If you damamge property whether it be on shore or on the water you are responsible. I'm not saying this is right but we see cruisers digging along even in wake areas were they probably shouldn't be causing all kinds of close calls. No way to point the finger at one boat that caused this but to me some no wake areas seem like a good idea.

If so, they sure don't enforce it at LOTO!!

The problem is that people started complaining about noise of all the performance boat's, So the Water Patrol really cracked down on all loud performance boat's, So then the people with performance boat's said to heck with it and bought BIG Cruisers and sold their performance Boat's.......That's why the performance boat market at LOTO is and has been soft lately......It's also why we are seeing the Biggest water of all time's at LOTO!!!.......The future doesn't look good!!

I know one thing, if the lake is Idle speed at night, then the nightclub's are going to take a huge hit!!....It's 20 miles from where I stay to Shooter's....At Idle speed....I don't think so!!! I'll stay home!!!

If the average boater could just buy some common sense when they buy these big boats we wouldn't have these problems

displacement limits would solve most of the problems at LOTO , however i dont see that happening because the money people own the big cruisers.

docks wouldnt be torn up , small or medium size boats wouldnt be getting swamped , and the average guy could actually use the lake instead of risking his life :(

Your exactly right!!

Troutly I agree!!

"displacement limits would solve most of the problems at LOTO "

Hey, quit pi$$ing on us cruiser guys. A 38' Cig or Scarab can easily throw a bigger wake than my 42' Chris Craft.
I think the real problem at LOTO are Sea Rays. They dont seem to build one that can actually get on plane. Or sell them to people that realize they're just plowing.
Just look at most of the 15 + ton boats. They're all operating at displacement speeds and throwing very little wake.
Gary

I'm going to say, it's more of the
number of these cruisers that are running
on the lake now, more than anything.

We got a late start Saturday,
we were at the 13mm, and have a main
channel view, after 11 am, it looked like
a freeway at rush hour, and ALOT of them
were cruisers.

Even though I stuffed into a Sea Rays
wake, the ones I really fear are the
3 story high (flybridge) Carvers, that
always seem to be on plow mode :eek: :eek:

jt

a displacement limitation is exactly what the lake needs! 50-65 ft boats have no real business being on loto. ive had a dock floating on the main channel at the 6.5mm since 95 and i can tell you without a doubt its not a 40ft searay express tearing up the lake but put 500 and 580's out there and you got some damage. the water patrol had to have a talk with the carver owners that used to leave the marina at the 2mm and go down the lake in a V formation tearing up every thing in site. a boat owner is respondsible for their wake. every year you see more and more of everything down there, its only stands to reason if they have added 6-7000 new homes and condos in the last 5years you have 7-10,000 more boats on the lake. im not one for restrictions but it will be here soon. as much as i love my offshore style boat if everyone is in pontoons il still have a good time ill just have a faster pontoon then i have now! ( 93 bayliner with a 175merc ).

later

Is it me, or did the write up say Nothing about anyone trying to help this poor woman? Was she knocked out? Was the door locked? or are we lall just talking about how now there will be more No Wake Zones?

My understanding is that the boat went down very very fast, like a matter of seconds, and in 70 feet if water, I doubt there is much that could have been done.

I just re-read that part. Okay, in that case I'll shut my pie hole.

then your one of a VERY few that know how to drive them without creating a tidal wave behind you.

i think its a "if you cant beat them join them" thing at loto. i know im tired of getting beat up. my next boat might be a cruiser if conditions dont improve. :( naaaaaaaaaa ;)

dont waste your money we will be pontoon pound in 5 years

I saw her son on the News and he said he was in the cabin also, and that he had ahold of her as he went for an opening but as he went through the opening he lost his grip and lost his hold on her. He looked to be about 16 or 17 years old, how devastating it must be for him.

Registration/licensing??
 

As much as I hate government involvement in anything - accidents like this really make you wonder if there needs to be some kind of license to operate anything. Being a commercially licensed pilot and having gone through the training and check rides involved, I really am starting to think that boats (and automobiles - case in point Germany) should require the operator to actually know a few things more than how to turn the key. The same morons driving a cruiser and putting out a monster wake are the exact same people that 2 years ago (or 2 years in the future) are going to take a performance boat, run over someone and then cause bans/legislation of go-fast boats. Granted, you can't legislate common sense, but perhaps you could keep at least a few of these idiots off the water.

JROMY
From what I understand this was probably a series of events that led to a situation that the operator was not able to handle. Mechanical problems, some flooding in the engine compartment, followed by a wake that swamped it. I dont want to place blame but that part of the lake is where ALL boats come off plane for the no wake zone leaving big wakes, not just the cruisers.
Stopping there in a position where the wakes would come over your transom may not have wise decision. I think it's more experience that's needed rather than legislation, at least in this case.
Gary

Jromy,

As a fellow liscensed pilot I have to disagree. Piloting a plane takes much more skill and training to be proficent, boating takes common sense and some knowledge of your surrounding, more so than driving a car does since there are many more traffic controls, but common sense none the less. There are laws aginst BUI and DUI but people still do it, there are manditory insurance requirements for liscesing a car, but I still know people who get it by people with no insurance or no liscenses.

This is a tragic accident, maybe there should be more flotation requirements for recreational vessels. But also if you consider there were several thousand boats on the lake that weekend and 1 fatality, would liscensing have stopped this from happening? Probably not. If everyone on board had on life jackets would it of helped? Probably not, if someone else was in the cabin like her son, would he have also become trapped because of the life jacket? These people probably ever dreamed that their boat could become swamped by boat wakes, maybe they had idled through there 50 times in the past, we justs don't know. The Titanic captian was trained, so was the captain of the valdez, the andrea dora, edmond fitzgerald and on and on but it didn't save them either.

Sometimes circumstances happen that no matter what, something tragic happens.

This made me think of an Outerlimits that sank a few years back in Oswego NY at Harborfest. Although there's a few different stories, apparently the guy had his engine hatch up, had bigger motors than had been planned for in the boat, had the boat in reverse, and accidentally hit full throttle. By all accounts, the boat went down in an instant - luckily no one was trapped on board. Not to say that's what happened in this case, just a point on how quick something can happen under certain circumstances.

Von Bongo, I have to take the other side on this one. I have a commercial lic. as well and I do agree, it takes more training to learn the systems of an aircraft, there cause and effect and FAA Laws. Boating is not just "Common sense" there are laws, there are Cause and effect while driving, and there are systems. Look at how many people on this site cant agree over Tabs vs.Drives on a stepped hull. Or What position should tabs be in on a cruiser, what about V-drive vs. I/O. Tabs on Direct drive, Pulse drive, Transmissions vs. no transmissions. Someone should make us all get a license. Lets face it, its trail and error with heavy large equipment and people are getting hurt and killed. There is no I.Q. test to drive a boat, No training or licensing if you are not charging money for hire in California you have to be over 12 years old to operate a vessel. That should be a minimum requirement for a library card, not to drive a boat.
I am not a "Big Government" believer. But someone should control what knowledge and ability it takes to drive a boat. Let me put it this way. If there was a test, I am confident I would pass. So whats the harm? That is not being conceited, I just figure for as many as I drive and how many lives are in my hands when I leave the dock I better know what I am doing. I treat boating like flying. It is a large machine that can kill a whole lot of people if I do not understand what I am doing. The FAA says I can fly a plane... Shouldn't someone say the same about a boat?

Ok, so let us say for a point of argument that we liscense, do we make them take a captians liscense and be able to read nautical and tidal charts? Nightime navigation by the stars? How proficient is someone going to be that boats on a 500 acre lake in a 19 foot bayliner? Do I have to have a different liscense if I want to drop my boat in the missouri river so I can read can and nun bouys? What about the ocean?

Ok, so do we make it so basic that you have to know what you need to have on your boat and what the 5 most common bouys mean? A 25 question test like a car exam? Do we make it different based on displacement? Horsepower? Boat possible top speed? Do I need 25 hours of training to in my type of boat by a certified boat instructor after passing a 250 question timed test? Missouri just passed a law that people under 16 have to take a boater safety course, is that enough? Do i need to have a minimum of 3 nightime cross current dockings in the last 90 days before I can pull my friends waterskiing?

I guess one good thing about it, if it cost a few grand, plus about 40 hours in seat time with an instructor and a couple of months of "water" school classes to be able to drive a basic 4 seat 135hp bayliner, along with a review every 2 years and a physical...I won't be *****ing about the large number of boats at LOTO because they will all be gone.

BTW how many of our peer pilots simply run out of gas each year, with all that expensive training and liscensing???? 280 since 1-1-98 that is 51 EACH YEAR that can't keep enough gas in the plane to get where they want to go. I guess we need to do a better job of liscensing us pilots so we can look in the f-in tank and do a few fuel calculations.

Sorry to rant, my point is, how can you make a recreational boating liscense effective when you have such a diverse group of boats and operating environmets that will truly have an impact?

I think you made some very good points and answered your own question. How about a basic license limited to size and horsepower restrictions (Just like the FAA). Then add certifications for Complex, and High performance. Driving and navigating at night should be at the boaters discretion (Much like the FAA). What about multi Engine boat certification, thats another prop to go over someone?
And Yes, Boaters should know basic navigation and what buoys mean. a 19ft Bayliner can blast through a no wake area at 50mph just like a Fountain can if the driver has no idea what he is doing.
BUI's and DUI's can be reviewed and licenses revoked. I know a USCG Licensed Captain who has a California Sales License that also has 2 DUI's in California and 3 in Mexico! He still drives boats and nobody can stop him from doing it. And yes, he boats drunk! What about Dennis Rodman? He racked up about 15 speeding tickets through Newport Harbors 5mph area in one summer because he could afford to pay them and there was no license to revoke.
3/4 of the people I sell boats to refuse training. Let me repeat that...3/4 of the people I sell boats to refuse training. And I sell mostly High Performance. Some have had catastrophic accidents, most call to find out who does good gel coat or fiberglass work. And as far as I know, non have died in boating related accidents. I offer training FOR FREE!!! to anyone I sell a boat to.
So, do I think we need the government to step in and unfortunately take away some of our freedoms for our own good. In this case YES!

This would effect my life as a Broker more than most on this board and I still say yes.
Just don't put Troutly in charge!

Man, that is scary. I can't imagine having that mentality - but that is the mentality that worries me. I know when I was learning to drive, I jumped at any offers to get on a race track for training. Same thing goes for aircraft - I flew aerobatics for a while at the school the French Connection ran at Flagler airport. As well as really knowing how to do things right and be safe, you also look like way less of an idiot when you have a big audience and dock your new Cigarette boat into the local restaurant without smashing into everything in sight (because you can't figure out where the brakes are)....:D

many good points on both sides...there are way to many idiots out there...!!!! just a simple test for a bayliner...

On the 4th going to party cove. There were 6 people in a aluminum bass tracker 17 ft long all weighed over 300#. They had a freeboard of 10-12 inches. Way over capacity. Do you think the water patrol would stop them? Ticket them? It is against the law and a highly visible vialation. The answer is NO!!!!! Their concern was jet skis going just above idle so as not to get run over by the boats that were idling also. (I hate lake lice), I guess they figured they all wouold float. You would also think the geniuses in the boat would know better as water came over the bow a few times in the no wake zone.