14-H Responds to Mike A. (again)
 

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[i]Originally posted by Mike A.

• APBA has roughly 8 employees and a payroll expense of $227,000.00 annually even though it has revenues of less than $1,000,000 and most of its operations are now fully automated. When Offshore recently assumed control of the entire sanction, insurance and membership functions of the category it did so without hiring a single additional employee.

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Offshore never assumed APBA's sanction, insurance and membership functions. Offshore just created its own on top of those from the APBA and all Offshore members know this. Offshore has operated kind-of like an exclusive local club for putting on all of APBA's offshore races in that you still had to join the club but you also had to join APBA and APBA kept track of membership information, assigned numbers, authorized championships and UIM championships kept track of records, administered the Hall of Champions all at the direction of but in addition to Offshore's administration. For its own, Offshore LLC charged additional fees (besides the APBA membership and sanction fees that went to Detroit), which the LLC had every right to do under the license agreement. But don't try to pretend that Offshore LLC eliminated its portion of the National Office's administration and overhead. This is not accurate.

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• Detroit also paid out $27,500 in hospitalization and disability insurance premiums for an already bloated staff.

• Detroit also paid out $15,000 in pension expense.

• Detroit also paid out $65,000 in additional insurance expense such as Director’s and Officer’s Liability coverage for a small company of less than $1,000,000 in annual revenues.

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What does the LLC pay for its equivalent of these overhead expenses?

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• Detroit also paid out $28,000 to Steve Hearn for legal services many of which such as bylaw amendments and updates simply never were performed.

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Oh, yeah: What work did APBA pay for that wasn't performed as requested, smart guy? Before you go around slinging slander like this, you ought to have enough guts to back it up with facts. And if you're insinuating that R.Steven didn't write the SeaTac By- Laws (that you weren't smart enough to get drafted before your term on the BOD ended) , recall that SeaTac was in August and R.Steven was fired by Jones in April. Mr. Bernstein was working on SeaTac ByLaws and never completed them. Who's fault is it that they were not completed before November 1? ANSWER: Yours!

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• Detroit also paid out $25,000 for Board of Directors related expenses.

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Mr. Jones was the only APBA director reimbursed for his UIM expenses. Let me see, did you bring a motion before the APBA BOD when this was approved to deny that request? That's what I thought.

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• Detroit also suffers an annual $60,000 net loss to produce the Propeller magazine.

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The members want this Mr. Allweiss! If they didn't, they'd complain about it. Again, your lack of concern about the members reveals your agenda. By the way, what portion did the LLC contribute directly for this benefit? ANSWER: None. It was contributed to by Offshore members through their APBA membership dues which you continue to withhold even though the Propeller comes out every month just as it did before.

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B. PASS THE RESULTING SAVINGS ON TO THE MEMBERS.

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In a myriad of ways. We could reduce membership fees and sanction fees. We could also simply allow the categories to keep roughly 90% of the revenue they generate rather than giving it to the Board to hold onto and use as they want.

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Excuse me. Wasn't your proposal (SeaTac) to pass 1/3 of the APBA profits to the licensees? And another 1/3 was to go to the APBA BOD. We've already seen your proposal on how to do this.

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The License Fee would be based on fair market forces but it should be minimal with the money used strictly for the minimal overhead needed by a renovated, more efficient sanctioning body, such as minimal staff needs and minimal physical plant and facilities, and perhaps for dedicated new member racing programs.

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This is like the car salesman asking the buyer how much the car should cost. Mr. Alweiss' company holds a license! His last suggestion for the actual amount for his company's license was $1.00 (I did not misplace a decimal or forget any commas or zeros).

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E. ALLOW THE BOARD TO HIRE A QUALIFIED CEO/PRESIDENT AND GIVE HIM/HER COMPLETE AUTHORITY TO EXECUTE THE BUSINESS PLAN. THUS, IF HE/SHE DECIDES TO ELIMINATE CLASSES, CONSOLIDATE CLASSES, CHANGE RULES, APPROVE RULE CHANGES, ETC. HE/SHE CAN DO SO RIGHT THEN AND THERE.

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The 2002 BOD tried to do this under Plan 2000. In fact, they had a candidate for this position in mind. Mr. Allweiss along with Mssrs. Jones and Jacobsen harpooned this proposal.

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Answer=======>

I know for a fact that the "friends" have failed to address the current insurance situation. We secured a much better program than the ASIS program in relatively short order. Your leaders need to be focused on the task, however, and right now they are focused on fighting Offshore and preventing you from racing in a great event.

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You are full of it. YOU VOTED IN FAVOR OF APBA'S CURRENT INSURANCE PROGRAM WITH ASIS AS AN APBA BOD MEMBER. Now its no good since you've been denied access to it as a result of the dispute between APBA and the LLC. I have personally been attempting to help the APBA consider its insurance options for next year and this is nothing more than a complete misrepresentation on your part.

You know, Mr. Allweiss: the Judge in NY has the entire matter under advisement, so I have plenty of time to respond to your innaccuracies. Want to keep this going?

14-H

Stop the crap!
 

Who else has taken the sport in a better direction???? I suggest you forget about posting things to damage the spirit of offshore racing. Its headed to court and judgements will be made. let it happen. It sure dosent need your input. Attacking peoples credit dosent need to be done here, if you need these questions answered, call Mike A yourself.

Re: 14-H Responds to Mike A. (again)
 

[Mssrs. Jones and Jacobsen harpooned this proposal.



You are full of it.
14-H [/QUOTE]

WOW!! You are full of it???? No that's the professional response to get respect???

14-H--you tried this crap on another websight...Get a life...

Call Mike on the phone.. We..fans don't need your garbage thrown in front of us..

Thanks..

14-h. I just lost all respect for your position about this case.

14-H,
Thanks for reposting. It seems that some of our fellow OSO friends would rather not hear your position. I personally wish there were no issues in Offshore Racing. But unfortunately there are. I can't imagine trying to make informed decisions on these issues without hearing both sides.

Get a life, 14-H. Get a boat, 14-H. At least, get an OSO membership.

Geta, got it.
 

Got too many boats, just got an OSO membership. A life... well, other than boat racing........ 14-H.

Regardless of his sometimes unfortunate terminology........

What are the ramifications if 14-H.......is right?

There are a lot of burned bridges piling up behind the LLC...and a few in front of them it seems.

Tres, we have been friends for years..........and we have seen the regimes come and go....... why cling so tightly to this one?


T2x

What's this I see? Why, it's a Racer's Forum. You know, where racing issues can be discussed. Imagine that.

If navigating OSO is beyond your abilities, 14-H, you can click here. Feel free to post all the racing "information" you care to, right in the RACE TALK forum.

Aw come on Dock........ Admit it......This beats discussion on "Alternative aftermarket prop nut sources for Bravo Drives".

I ignore those topics...you can ignore this one....unless you are just a teensy weensy bit interested;)

T2x

I do not know why someone would care where this thread is posted. On this board we read about new cars girlfriends new babys dogs ot this ot that........
I think this is actually related to our sport but I guess you would rather obout OT new lawn darts Ot yo grandmother?
I think some just do not like the the message.

Nope, T2x, not interested at all. Quite frankly, I wouldn't give a **** if there wasn't another offshore race, period. Too bad for the racers, but so much of this bull**** sounds a lot like my 18 month old when she's throwing a temper tantrum.

The only race I'd ever miss is the Gold Cup hydroplane races on the Detroit River, and it looks like that event has been pulled back from the brink.

So, I guess we can leave all the squabbling children to piss in each other's Kool-Aid and run around screaming "Mommy, Mommy" all day long. The lawyers will bill their hours, and the racers will wonder whether their time and money is worth the trouble, the sponsors will find other ways to spend their money, and certain people (fill in your choice of names here) will post smug messages on public internet boards.

The rest of us will be out boating.

I knew you were a smart guy, Troutly! :) Congrats on the anniversary, btw!

dock,

I think in many ways about the lawyers and the continuous disagreements is accurate as well as others will be out boating. I agree with that point so much that it clearly explains why I no longer race and why I enjoy poker and fun runs so much. However, and I do not intend to sound smug, pretentious, stuck up or otherwise, but please just avoid reading and continuing to post on theses threads if you do not like their tones, topics etc.. It really is that simple and those who wish to contribute may continue to do so.

Thanks and enjoy your summer.

Im with Dockrocker on this one.
This crap is getting so deep Im not even sure if i even care anymore.

T2X is right.THis whole thing is not about what is best for us racers.Its not about giving the power back to the members.
It's all about making sure 14-H and his buds are right.
Making sure the evil but enviously successful MAllweiss is Wrong
Its all about winning - beating the other guy ang giving the V sign.
So lets say he does win?
What's he won?
A big pile of charred rubble that used to be the best offshore circuit in the country,killer debt on both sides,continual downsliding with no plans for rescusitation and a membership thats sick of all this APBA vs LLC BS and looking for the closest exit.
The only supporters APBA will get are the old farts most of who already have exposed their envy of MA.It just kills them since Not a one of them can match MA's success.
Theyll sink us all together but in the end,will any of them care?None of them are offshore so of course not.

Bravo.
Real nice job.

Shane,

You're not the guy I had in mind ;) I've made my case before (as have others), but I'll sum it up one more time - then I quit.

All of this APBA v. Offshore LLC garbage is racing related. I'd venture to say that the vast majority of those that frequent this board don't really care about what Mike A said on date X, or what 14-H said in response, or what Mike's response was to that response, yadda yadda yadda. If the interested parties feel the need to keep airing their version of the dirty laundry, there is a board devoted to racing issues only. I can't think of a more appropriate subject for the racing board, if not this one; otherwise, why have it? Just eliminate all of the special interest boards and go back to just the G.D. forum. *shrug*

Then, after all the smack has been talked, the dirty laundry cleaned up, and the lawyers have been paid, post the news for all the world to see right on the General Discussion board.

In the end, it really doesn't matter. I have a feeling that offshore racing will continue to lurch along, never quite crossing the line from 'hobby' to 'profession', and IMHO, you can see the reason why in a lot of the attitudes thrown around here (not you Shane - you're all right even when you're wrong :D ).

No skin off my back either way.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled whining match ;)

That's how I see it, too.

Keep it comin' guys.
This is Offshoreonly. We talk boats. We talk boat racing. We talk about the BS in Boat racing! Don't like it, don't read it.

:cool:

I personally don't give a rats ass who runs the show, where the money goes, who gets rich, who gets robbed, who gets pissed , who stays a fan, who is no longer a fan, who likes this thread, who hates this thread, etc. If I can continue to race in events like Savannah, Marathon, and Daytona, than fight to the death for all I care

Baja,
 

"Keep it comin' guys.
This is Offshoreonly. We talk boats. We talk boat racing. We talk about the BS in Boat racing! Don't like it, don't read it. "


I agree, Love this controversial stuff.

Good guys vs villains, Fast boats vs slow boats Cats vs V's .......

What's good for offshore boating??? PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! when has this ever been about "good for offshore boating" or "racers".


THIS IS ABOUT MONEY!!!!!!!!!


Nothing else.

Maximus

go ahead sue me.

how can such smart people be as dumb as this crew , if you doint like this thred DO NOT RESPOND ! doint put down some body else because you doint like what they said. go boating then you doin't have to read our post .

I ran it through the "puder-speak 5000" translator, and this is what came out:

No idea what that has to do with putting race threads in the forum dedicated to racing issues and discussion, but what do I know? :confused:

5 Second Warning:::::::


Originally posted on Hydroracer:
The 14-H Plan
I'll answer so long as you guys continue to push Mike A. on the issue of his successful LLC. I mean really! The bottom line is the proof. If the LLC is so successful, it should be making money, right? Moreover, a lack of making money is the reason (so it says) the LLC has dropped quite a few Offshore race venues. So even according to Mike A., this is the definition of success.

So here it is. Go to http://www.geocities.com/sponsonhead/index.html

and click on 2003 APBA By-laws Proposal written by Ed Hearn.

This is what I would and did propose. These are the ByLaws which essentially keep the format that the members elect the BOD and the Commissioners who are elected by the members at the Region Meetings elect the Category Chairman. It also includes the provision that the BOD elects the officers (although I could go either way on that one: elected by BOD or by members directly). It also provides for the hiring of competition directors as was provided for in Plan 2000 (although they have a different name). This is what I proposed at the annual meeting in Detroit and it was overwhelmingly approved. Moreover, I received all kinds of proxies from members who could not be there who supported this as well. By the way, these ByLaws are a mesh between the APBA's old bylaws (completely re-written in 1994) and Plan 2000.

Allweiss will now probably go into a tirade about how this was a secret coup. It wasn't though. But even if the members don't like this plan, they can always change it. Allweiss' plan does not allow a majority of the members to do anything. Remember: Allweiss holds a license with the APBA. He has a vested interest in keeping as much control of the APBA as he can. Why do you think he spends so much time trying to convince people that his plan is the best one? Remember, Allweiss' last suggestion to the APBA BOD on how much he should be charged per year for his Offshore license was $1.00.

14-H.

No Respect
 

Why, because Mr. Allweiss tells everyone that Offshore needed to get a better insurance plan since APBA's was "inadequate" and I point out that HE VOTED FOR IT? 14-H.

No,

Becuase it's obvoius that this is a personal issue with you.

The LLC used a different insurance carrier because the money paid for the insurance was not being attributed to the liscence fee. Also, they were being overcharged. Something about offshore racers being able to afford to pay more.

Overcharged
 

Overcharged: (ie: rates too high): Maybe. But doesn't it concern you at all that a guy who voted for this insurance plan now thinks it's a bad one when there's a possibility he's not on the APBA BOD anymore? Doesn't this reveal the fact that the cost (while maybe a factor) is not the primary reason for the change? 14-H.

Add: it is personal! Mr. A. has attacked my family and my integrity and he refuses to pony-up any facts to support it and ignores the facts that I confront him with.

thanks DR :rolleyes:

just what we need over in the racers' forum.

what are you going do?:)