OK, now that I am thinking about it, it might have been a 32 Skater, but it was all orange.

RT

We did build Dea Won...It was originally Joe Detores boat.....and the Stickers said "Team Shadow", but we were called Image Boat Co. at that time......

The later company that leased the molds, I think was called Team Shadow....... Upon further reflection...even I am confused.

Please don't start a "What's in a name" thread.

T2x

Of all the boats you built, what was your personal favorite besides big Jessie? Where is it now?

Do you ever get a chance to run in any of your old boats? If not, would you take the opportunity to run one if you could? If not, why?

Figure out when Darren and Philip are dragging you to sushi in the city????

Do you ever stop asking questions?:p :p ;) ;)

No. I was even chatting to my fellow masochists during the Marathon. Boy did that irritate people! :D

Besides, we know how social T2x is and how much he enjoys answering unsolicited questions... :eek: :p

That being said........

T2x,

Where were you born?
When?
WHY WERE YOU BORN?:p
Do you like boats?
Why?
Why not?

:D ;)

This is my all time favorite...When last seen it was on the French Riviera.....


T2x

Rolling Thunder was the only Offshore boat in history to use 4 2 liter Formula One Tunnel boat engines...complete with SSM's.... It was a legal Modified class boat (8 liters O/B or twin small blocks I/B) at that time (1984/85).... The Modified record was 101 MPH held by the 30' Chris Cat Jesse James..and it was "common knowledge" that no outboard could stay with an inboard, of the same class, in Rough Water. I believed that tunnel boat motors with their high rev limits and small props would provide the smoothest, most dependable propulsion available, and an outstanding power/weight ratio.....

Rolling Thunder tested at Lake X..... first launching...only one set of props tried because the crew was in a hurry to leave with the boat.......... speed with four people( myself and George Linder included)on board and a half load of fuel....... 117 MPH. The boat was laughed at .....even by the owner's crew , who loved inboards...and considered an oddity by many others.... sort of "T2x's Folly". In hindsight the choice of owners should have been an outboard guy....with all due respect to Vinnie Rinaldi...he was a died in the wool inboard believer...surrounded by a chorus of nay sayers.

At the race in Traverse City, Michigan later that year....The Rinaldi's ( in their second race in a cat ever) and the outboard Rolling Thunder hooked up with National Champion's Chris and Mark Lavin...in the Jesse James Chris Cat..... ( a fantastic rough water boat). The seas were BIG (3-5's).....and nasty, steep Great Lakes "chop".... There were two men in the Chris Cat...and three in the "oddity"....every thing favored the Lavins. The race started with Jesse James settling into the lead in class...as the rest of the competitors faded astern in the seas...... except for this black, seemingly possessed cat...which was tip toeing...over the wave crests as if suspended by threads........( A young video announcer/boat builder hung overhead in a helicopter babbling like an idiot)......... and then the unthinkable happened. Mark Lavin sensed the up coming Conquest Cat...and poured the coals to Jesse James.............. Rolling Thunder kept on coming.... relentless and inevitable..... like some kind of spirit...until they were side by side.

At the roughest part of a 20+ mile straightaway...Jesse James dove off a large wave and slammed down into the trough of the next.......

Rolling Thunder.....hit the same wave..... gave a little wiggle...and spanned to the crest of the next.... seemingly without effort...(See pictures above and below).

The point was proven.

Later the boat changed hands...had an engine fire in New Orleans....because of the one direct reversing powerhead.......but that's a whole 'nuther story.

The bottom line is that boat was the most revolutionery thing we ever did...... and nobody ever understood it.... The second owner took it to Europe ..sans Formula One motors..repowered it with three 2.4's and relegated it to an asterisk....but I'll never forget it.

We still have the original video footage.... and I treasure it.

T2x

The "Inboard killer"

T2x

And here's it's daddy.

and it's grand daddy.............

Here's mom.................

and good ol grandma................

Let me guess..... This boat has 2 t2x's on it?

So, T2x if you were going to build a boat today that would be considered T2x's follie part 2, what would it be? What interesting technology would you marry to what kind of hull to generate the son of Rolling Thunder?

I've heard about some interesting diesel developments and some new ideas about outboards, surface drives, etc. What do you think would work?

T2x,

Thanks for the pics.

But we NEED more.

Pound for pound.......... the 28 skater is still the most speed per dollar available..... two Formula One O/B motors might be interesting....eh?

On a grander scale.... sky is the limit kind of thing...... I believe there needs to be some research into true four point designs....... lower attack angle...higher safe speed potential.... We are in a sort of muscle boat hell right now with available speeds far in excess of the talent levels present in the owners...... It is a credit to most of them that the weekend tragedies lists are so short.....and a credit to people like Peter Hledin and his designs and construction techniques.

George and I have plans for an outboard speed record boat............that we developed a few years back....

Any interested sponsors will be welcomed.

T2x

What would you consider the progenitor of the "true 4 point design"?

t2x we deffinetly feel the need for more pics..........those were great by the way.............

Please note...210 boats started this race from Miami to Palm Beach..... in 1962....... 40 years before the LLC brought "large numbers of boats to events". By the way..there were about 5 or 6 classes....do the math.

T2x

Nice.

On the subject of Four Point hydros..and "Wings".
 

The boat pictured was 17 feet long, wood, and ran up to 120 mph........with about 220 hp, antique round eared props, 1:1 gears and was safe and under control.

If you do any kind of scale computation...simply extrapolate that up to 46 feet........with today's power, props, materials, and cad design capabilities....and put your result up against the current "shootout" speeds.

T2x

Switzer wasn't alone at the top
 

Here is another 4 point design..... by Powercat...circa 1964.
Note the attack angle............

T2x

Up close:

one more...................

Since I'm being shameless...and lifting pictures
 

I drove one of these...back in the day...from Albany to NY.....with bigger (100 Hp) motors.

Wanna race?

Could a 46 foot (or any large size) 4 point hull run in rough, confused, nasty conditions at speed? Would it be as capable as the equivalent Skater length?

Does the Powercat have two sponsons?

Does the Powercat turn well?

That hull design looks somewhat similar to Harry Schoell's step design in the side view.

T2x, give us the history of Powercat.

vtec

Re: Since I'm being shameless...and lifting pictures
 

My father often speaks of the Albay to NY race...bloody knees and all.

Good question....the fast answer is.....maybe. The big concern is closing the tunnel at speed with a large wave. Certainly the forward entry would need work, and a method of shifting the attack angle rearward in rough water must be developed....(trim, prop rake, tunnel compression.....etc)...but the top speed issue never occurs in rough water (Callan/Bacardi are not running 200 mph in 5 foot seas) so the whole idea of a "multi-purpose" 225+ mph boat is a bit wacky to begin with.

That having been said.......Four points were no slouches in messy water...up to their design maximums....see below.

T2x

and tunnel/cats have "issues" too.........................especially at max speeds

T2x

Actually, the correct statement is Harry Schoell's step design looks similar to the Power Cat....which was designed many years earlier. Power Cat started in Bellflower, California under the helm of Ray Leger senior. Ray worked closely with McCullough Scott outboards and, later, Kiekhaefer Mercury in the early days of outboard marathon racing (the ancestor to both modern Offshore AND tunnelboat racing).

The basic design was originally crafted in wood and later fibreglass.....and consisted of two hard chined SYMMETRICAL sponsons....joined by a flat bridge at the top of the tunnel. These boats were both faster and better handling than equivalent flat and round bottom monohulls....... The deep vee design ( which came along a few years later) eventually caught them in rough water.....mostly because the Glastron factory team had more money and marketing savy..... and the Deep Vee was more consumer oriented.

The deep vees never really caught the four points...and the ASSYMETRICAL tunnels were yet another dominant twist in the catamaran design evolution.

For further Power Cat info I'll post a link later.

T2x

T2x, I sat with the guy who built the Magnolia cats at the last two Ftl Lauderdale boat shows. This year, he brought pix of an original Mississippi river racer that he is restoring with with a couple of 100's. Guy Radiano (the guy who is vertical in the "Miss Magnum" picture) from TNT is helping him with counterrotating the port unit. This boat is an orignal Merc team boat, I think driven by Bakos and Mersereau.

Brownie:

Ola!

Funny you bring that up....we were discussing the Magnolias last week...... some of the drivers at that time preferred them......but they were really ungainly...ugly is a better word. As you can see this whole wing project is having an impact on my design thoughts..... The more I study this beauty the more amazed I am at how advanced the damn thing was...and is! I have been in contact with Bob Switzer and his thoughts are quite interesting....... However, I can't figure out how the minds that crafted the Wing...wound up building the later Vee bottoms......which were no where near in the same league......nor direction.

Maybe we are all destined to reach a peak........ and lose the "edge"....... I'd hate to think that's true....but as Chairman Emeritus of OLE' (Obsolete Loudmouths Extant)....maybe I should reconsider.:p

T2x

Brownie:

Restored Magnolia Cat

Power Cat website.

www.powercatboat.com

Huminahhuminahhuminah.....................

That is (or was) a Skipjack from the left coast.