bench trial
 

Ok, my noise citation is coming up for a bench trial tomorrow. This is my first time through and I'm representing myself. Although my boat was definitely exceeding the db limit, I believe that the test was not performed per the standard. So I was thinking of getting the officer to explain how he conducted the test and then refer back to the testing standard to show that he didn't follow it. Do I need to declare my evidence or witnesses? Will I have a chance to cross examine? Or is it more like small claims where the judge runs the show? Has anybody been through one of these? Am I approaching it correctly? Tips?

Yep, that was exactly the case with my insurance lawsuit. The lawyers kept on getting dressed down for acting like lawyers! I guess that trial really learned me a lot about the court system.

Well, it looks like the testing standard is very specific. The meter is to be held at exactly this set distance. It doesn't give a tollerance. I know that the meter was only held at arms length with no measured distance. I figured I'd ask the officer what distance he held the meter at and then tell him what the standard calls for. It also specifically states where the testing boat is supposed to be and that it wasn't there. They had to drift their boat behind mine so the meter would be behind the boat. The standard says the testing boat is to be too the side, not behind. Apparently the meter needs to be on a pole or something. The standard also says that the boats were "to be lashed together" and they were only held by hand. A couple of really nitpicky items, but I thought it might be enough to get the test thrown out. What are your thoughts?

Pay the stinkin fine and save your vacation time.....what is it like $100? I think its $90 here in Michigan now my time off is worth more than the fine...my .02

Yea, it's $159 or something like that. It's not the money, it's the principal! I have to put my foot down for the man! If I don't who will? :D

Actually, I'm doing it just because I absolutly hate the law. Wisconsin is 86db which is just insain.

Cord, I agree, fight for the principal :)

Ask him if he usually carries a tape measure on board his vessel.

When I was pulled over years ago, the officer had everything in a briefcase. He had pre-cut PVC that was put together in such a fashion that gave him the necessary dimensions to test properly. Sounds like this guy just held a meter from behind and called it good.

Good luck. Chances are you will win the case on a technicality but in their mind they will think you lost because of the lost time wages etc. . .

One comment, you may want to be prepared with some technical explaination. Explain the way the cop tested you actually caused the reading he took to be higher than what it would have read if the test was performed correctly. I don't think I would get into the actual difference but only state that the improper measurement method resulted in higher readings than if it was done according to the law.

Rick

Rather than trying to get into the higher-lower readings, I was hoping to just stick with the assertion that the test was performed incorrectly. If I get caught up in the higher-lower argument, I could lose because he would be holding the meter too far away. That's the basis of the argument-the meter is supposed to be held at X feet back and Y feet up-exactly! I also don't want to take the stand and be examined by the prosecuter, I could really get my self in trouble then!

Never happened to me yet. It may have been the lawyers you were dealing with. ;)
This is your only hope. And it is going to require a good cross-examination.

Don't be surprised when the officer lies about what happened -- be prepared, and bring at least one well spoken witness to trial with you. (Assuming there was a witness present on the boat.) The night before trial, go over the details of EVERYTHING that happened with your witness from the moment you saw the officer to when he left so you both have the facts perfectly straight. Concentrate on the parts of the test he did wrong, because these are the most likely things the officer will fudge.
Know the distance and the exact procedure for testing. Have a copy of the law with you, because the man in the black robe AIN'T GONNA TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT!!!
Wrong. ASK HIM what the law requires him to do. Let him show the judge his ignorance. You can show the judge how it is to be done later.

Remember -- You ASK QUESTIONS on cross-examination. You cannot testify to anything while doing it, because you aren't sworn in, yet. Besides, it is a bad idea anyway. Don't give the prosecutor any of your knowledge, yet. You want to testify last. You will have heard all of the testimony and will be able to correct the innacuracies.
Good stuff.

Be sure to ask all of the foundation questions first before you get aggressive. Then you can say things like, "So, you said that your boat wasn't lashed to mine like the law requires?" and, "Since you weren't lashed to my boat, is it possible that the distance between the meter and the transom of my boat varied during the test?" These are just examples, but use the same form for each of the other technicalities.

At the end, argue to the judge that all of the technical requirements are in the law for a reason -- to ensure an accurate test. If they aren't followed, the test results are not scientific or reliable.

Another thing you may want to do is challenge the officer's qualifications to use the test. Try asking him questions about how his equipment works. (BTW - You have to know how it works to pull this off.) The burden is on the prosecution to show the results are reliable. They can only do this if the test is based on good science. If he can't explain to the judge how the machine measures sound, the test results should be inadmissible.

Oh -- One other little thing. If you testify, you can be asked if your boat exceeded the sound limit. If you know or have good reason to know your boat exceeds the limit, another answer might be perjury.

GOOD LUCK!!!:cool: :cool: :cool:

Pay the stinkin fine and save your vacation time.....what is it like $100? I think its $90 here in Michigan now my time off is worth more than the fine...my .02

All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing

Oh, man that is soo helpful! Thanks! You made several good points that I hadn't thought of. If you can add anything more, I'd sure appreciate it! :cool:


Regarding the lawyers being dressed down comment...I was sueing the insurance company in small claims. They kept on forgetting that and were treating it like a large claims case. Apparently there are several things that can be done in large claims that are obsurd in small claims.

When all else fails Cord, remember:

If you can't tantalize them with talent, baffle them with bull$hit.

Must be why people are usually baffled by me. Yea, that must be it!

It's the principal!!!!!!Been there before and still paying a Lawyer on a would be 250.00 fine.:mad: :mad:

Re: bench trial
 

I hate to sound preachy, but if you know your guilty what the hell gives you the right to waste the tax payers money on a trial? If you don't agree with the law put your energy into changing it, instead of dragging some poor cop into your punk azz slime just because he's doing his job.:rolleyes:

Re: bench trial
 

Devils advocate here,

Sorry Cord, don't mean to pizz you off, but you admit its to high. Why not accept responsibilty and pay the fine instead of trying to get off on a technicality, which is what you are trying to do by sugar coating it. It would be one thing if you are under the limit and the test was done wrong in which it read to high, but you ADMIT it. While you are fighting it because you don't agree with the law, it is the law and you must accept it for what it is until it gets changed. But we know that will never happen.
Here in IN, we have no db reading. Just can't have silent choice. Figure that chit out! :rolleyes: Best for me to be loud and obnoxious 100% of the time than having the option of stealth mode around the docks and at nite.

Anyways, good luck.
BTW, what that saying about a guy who represents himself? Having a fool for a lawyer. ;)

Yeah, what he said. :)
And no, I ain't wearing my fricken seat belt!
While your changing the laws Cord, get that chit repelled!

Do what you want, but I rolled my truck 3 weeks ago and if not for the belt, I'd probably be roadkill right now.

The boat blew 95. I have Teague mufflers that reduce that to by 10db. The law calls for 86db. They start ticketing at 89db. The Teague mufflers broke 1 week before the citation. I had already contacted Teague and they wanted to receive the mufflers so they could repair them. The problem is that the mufflers are integral with the tips, so the whole exhaust system must be torn apart. This was the last run of the year, so I just wanted to have fun for one last time before winter set in. This was all explained to the cop with the hope that I could get a "fix it ticket". No dice. He didn't care. He cited me. Mind you these are the same cops that were quoted earlier in the year as "Once all the performance boats are off the water, my problems will be solved." There are issues happening here that are bigger than me just wasting a few dollars. The cops up here are issuing about 150 noise citations a weekend in an attempt to get the perfomance boats off the water. They say that safety is their number one concern, yet they never asked me if I had a fire extinguisher. Never asked me if I had enough life preservers. Never asked if I had a throwable device. They didn't care. They just want my boat off their water.

BTW-this was also on the same day that my prop was stolen!

Bench trial
 

Hey Cord, looks like you are well prepared but you never know, the water-cop might not even show up!!

That's what happened to me one time on a local lake here in PA. Got wrote up for coming up on the dock too fast, posted 100' yet I cut the throttle at least 300' but my wake rocked the PA Fish & Game's boat a little bit while he was tied up at the dock so he wrote a $100.00 fine and then never showed up at court!

Judge got pizzed and threw it out!

Anyway, good luck.

Cord, how did things go?

Cord got sentenced to 10 days in the county jail, and has to forfeit his boat to the state.

Why would the state want a boat that has no prop? :)

The state can't have it, it's much too loud!!:p :D

I've known you for several years now Tim, but I figured out that you are full of bullshi% the very first time we met!!!! I'm continually baffled whenever we are in the same state!!!

One thing that has worked for a friend of mine in the past is to call the Judges clerk and get the trial postponed because you will be unable to attend on the trial date. My friend would do this a few times and by the time it went to trial the officer would not be on the correct court schedual to attend. Sometimes the officers were not even informed of the new trial date. Needless to say he got out of a few tickets when the judge would dismiss the cases because the officer was not there.

Im not saying this is the right thing to do. Im simply relaying an experience.

Me Ive gotten a ticket everytime Ive been pulled over and at the height of my sports car habit I had 14 tickets on my record at one time. I was a habitual offender and knew all the judges on a first name basis.

Ron

This is more than principal these idiot DNR Wardens are on a power kick, the issue absolutely is the tests are NOT being performed correctly, NOT whether the boats are too loud. You bet you fight this - I just got my notice yesterday confirming my ticket from Aug 24 was thrown out of court. NOW I didn't need to go as far as a bench trial (although I would have) because Brown County requires if you are representing yourself to meet with Asst DA first.

Here's what I brought along (thanks to some folks here); SAE Standards; go to (www)sae.org - print them ALL out, go through and find the areas that pertain to your ticket. I'm sure you can find clearly where the testing was not done properly. Don't pull these out at the beginning tho, feel out the situation before laying all of your cards on the table.

These boys are running around thinking they are hot stuff pulling over the "big boys" as they like to refer to us thinking they have a big fish with lots of bucks and they don't know the first thing about testing procedures.

Now, I agree we need to lobby, etc. but that takes time, fight it Cord - if done correctly you should win this one.

PS - the DA we met with exact words "I've dealt with DNR before (as he rolled his eyes)." I'm sure many of the DNR idiots think it's a small ticket most people will just pay BUT they are so far out of line in WI it's ridiculous. Good luck - can't wait to hear how it goes for you.!!

I thought about doing that, but I really wanted to get this over with. Well it is over. To say the least, things didn't go well. The cop had the book memorized. I'd ask him a question and he'd quote it from memory. Chit. I thought I had him when he said that he performed two tests. I "accidentally" flooded the engine after the first test, so I know he never conducted the second one. Never the less, he had the two readings. Judge said that he didn't believe me or my wife. He reduced the fine to $30 and added $120 in court costs. Still ended up with less than what the DA offered. Sure wish they hadn't switched judges. The other one was throwing all these noise citations out.

Mike, we will never be in the same state of mind! :D