The SS sure looks like a Searay to me!:(


Come back to the light.

When I get old , I might consider a cruiser.:D

glh , wish i had your problem:rolleyes: :D :D

Never saw a Sunseeker with "thru-hulls". I agree with Cuda.

No SeaRay runs 60mph.
I do love that Cigarette light.
And, your already old! :D:D:D

Ok, a fast Searay.

Not old enought to go cruiser yet!:D

Don't those cost a Million + new and at least 1/2 mill used? That is some serious coin for 3 maybe 4 months. I would go with the trailer. If you were on the big lake you could go anywhere in the world with that. Thats the ticket. I would go with the Tiger.

GLH, you know what I think. As far as Black Thunders and Sonics and Fountains... are concerned, those are good boats where everything is solid and will last but in terms of design and aesthetics, they are terrible. The finish is quite simply crap. Don't get me wrong, I said it is all solid and well-made but it's just a multitude of little things that piss me off when I see one. The alignment of panels and doors is not 100% perfect, gaps are a bit irregular, materials are long-lasting but everything is synthetic... I am frankly sick of Corian and Ultraleather and stuff like that. When I shell out top dollar, I want granite, fine wood varnishes and real leather. And design and ergonomics is another thing. As an example, when I see that flat panel dashboard on a Fountain, I freak out. I don't even find it ugly, it leaves me indifferent which is infintely worse on an object of passion like a performance boat. It's just there, nothing more... And when I find out that I can't see half of the gauges because they are hidden behind the steering wheel, then I get really upset and don't even think any further. Buying one is out of the question just because of that dashboard. Sunseeker has what none of the other boats mentioned have: class. It's like a difference between a Range Rover and an H2. I think H2 looks cool and I hear it's a good SUV but when I see the design of that dashboard and touch that hard, shiny plastic it's out of the equation. That type of plastic should be confined to building toys for kids, not 50K+ luxury cars. As for people who won't hang out with you because your boat doesn't make a lot of noise and send you to see Sea Ray owners, if they really are that narrow-minded, forget them in any case, whether you buy the Cig or the SS. I will just say that Sunseeker owners include the likes of Michael Schumacher, J.P. Montoya, Ralf Schumacher had one, Eddie Jordan has one, Nigel Mansell is still sponsored by SS and has one, king Gustav of Sweden has one... I believe even king Juan Carlos of Spain has a Thunderhawk, even though he was really into Cigs and Apaches previously. So if you spot one of those guys, don't talk to them.
Finally, I will say that many people have miconceptions about Sunseeker prices. They are inflated in the US because of the higher purchasing power and the greater availability of credit. This is why a new 50' Thunderhawk with trip Yanmar 440hp and Trimax drives will be 750K. However, in Europe they retail for 450K new. There are plenty of very recent ones on sale, boats which are 2 or 3 years old and which have consequently depreciated a lot and which will depreciate much less in the years to come. The value for a trip Yanmar w/Trimax 50' has stabilized around 300 to 350K for very nice and recent ones. As I have said in a previous thread about performance cruisers, the 48s with trip outdrives can usually be had for under 200K. At this level you will have a choice between triple 502s, triple Volvo diesels (KAD 42 & 43 for 230 or 260 hp each), rare twin or trip Yanmar 300hp on Bravos or a very rare triple Yamaha diesels version. As for the 38' XS2000 boat with twin Yanmar 440hp and Trimax, it is nowhere near 350 and 400K. They can be had any time below 200K. It's a very fun boat although at 75 mph it's not scary fast for an all-out performance boat. The point is the fact that they are nearly indestructible which means that you can really abuse it and come back for more the next day...

If anybody needs any info about Sunseekers on the European market, let me know. I have a few in brokerage and know about pretty much every single one available for sale...

So Mr Super
It sounds like your really into the....quality....of your pampering......Sonics and Fountains arnt nice enough???.....:rolleyes:You want "granite and "fine wood varnishes" .....this is Offshore Only, guys on this board throw out their gen sets and refrigerators and switch to aluminum intakes and exhaust to save weight!!!....Its about stability in a turn through the rough at 80mph!....its about throttle response!.....its about having your props labbed to get another 2mph(if your lucky)!.....its about how level the boat flies and how well it lands!......its about intercoolers and chrome blowers.......its about bottom blueprinting and drive upgrades.......Guys on this board buy a Skater because of its racing pedigree...NOT because King Gustav of Sweden has one :rolleyes:....Thats on the Sea Ray site

$170 sounds like a real steal, if it's true.

I think the Sunseeker would be a terrific compromise choice.

When I decided to make the switch from a 41 Apache to something more family/neighbor friendly, I bought a 45 Searay. I figured if it was time for the switch, why not go all the way to the cruising end of the spectrum.

After a couple of years, going 30 mph got old, so I moved to a 382 Formula, which seemed like a nice compromise. It's been great, but it's no Sunseeker when it comes to style and class.

A 48 Sunseeker would have been an even better choice, but cost almost twice as much.

With perfect hindsight, what I should have done is skip the Searay and Formula and get the Sunseeker!

LMFAO:):):):)

Also look at the older Nor-tech 50's had an aft cabin in them as well. I am sure Terry Sobo or Randy Sweers could assist you. Just my .02

We have had the 42' Sonics, a Black Thunder and now a 47' SC Fountain (cruise at 50+ mph). Before the Fountain we considered a 400SS Formula (and I would LOVE to have a Sunseeker). I know Bill did this for me because, compared to him, I am a relative new-comer to the boating world. We can still get there almost as fast as the next guy...no we are not an Outerlimits or anything else with big motors... but we will get there in comfort. The Fountain also allows us to have a bimini to protect us from the sun and heat but we also have a gen set that allows us to have a lot of other nice things. As we get older (God forbid) I would love to have a Sunseeker if the amenities were beyond those of the 400 SS Formula or a 48' Express Fountain. A good friend's father has a 48 SuperHawk...what a beautiful boat!

I still love going fast but beyond the Fountain we have now, trailering is not possible. I love to go places.

Just my $.02....for what it's worth...Happy Thanksgiving to all.....

Patti
47' SC Fountain
"Fuelish Pleasure"

Dallasboats, I might not have been clear that the Sunseeker would be in the 1996 to1999 range. Pardon the omission.

Some of those I imagine from previous experience would be attainable with a certified cash offer in the $175k range.

Yachtworld Sunseeker 48 Under $240k

I agree with your lifespan numbers, I am familiar with 502 Mag MPI's (they are in my Cigarette Now).
As for the other issues any boat I choose I would have inspected thoroughly like should be done to any used boat no matter the Brand, Cig or Sunseeker.

Too Old, Twinn 29, I was not trying to start a controversy here by knocking Fountain, Black Thunder and co. If I did not like that kind of product, I would not be discussing about them on OSO. Infact, I did say that they were good, reliable products. But I felt obliged to respond to opinions that GLH should not even consider a Sunseeker because it's too heavy, not fast enough, not square enough... Well, all I was saying is that there is a flip side to that coin too. Some people will say that you guys are crazy for considering boats you like because the finish is not refined enough, the design is dated and not ambitious, the comfort factor is far inferior, the materials used are not "noble"... Just like the Sunseeker is behind in terms of performance when compared to your boats, your boats are behind that Sunseeker in terms of comfort and finish. So every boat is a compromise of some sort. GLH will decide which compromise is good for him and his family but I just hate the attitude that a Sunseeker is some kind of an inferior, watered-down peformance boat, basically a bastard offspring of the real performance boat breed. So called "pure" offshore boats also have a ton of compromises built into their design and are inferior to the Sunseeker in many ways, and that's the only point I was trying to make.

twinn29, give me a break. You make it sound like you're on this "die-hard" mission for speed where aesthetics count for nothing. Where performance and functionality are never compromised for anything "pretty". Well, if that's the case, first you shall all remove those mirrors from your engine hatches because that's weight, it reflects heat back to your engines and it generally does nothing for performance. Besides, you won't need them anyway because you shall also stop coating your motors in candy colors and stop putting diamond plating in your bilges. And you shall also remove your 30K paintjobs with seven coats of varnish because it will not make your boat any faster, on the contrary... As for speed and stability, there are many much more fundamental things that could be done to those boats, other than dumping the fridge and saving a few pounds on the exhaust.

Too Old, you're right about tastes and preferences. Those cannot be judged. On the other hand, the value of a design can. Much more thought, research and design effort in general went into that Sunseeker than in a Sonic for example. Its appearance may not be to your liking but one has to value the design effort which was deployed. You probably had an old Range Rover because the new ones are finished better than Hummers and are reliable in terms of electronics. British-made Lucas electronics were problematic, Bosch came with BMW engines so no problems now... I would also say that a BMW or a Mercedes is better finished with better quality materials than a Cadillac for example, although Caddies have improved a lot. Similarly, a Sunseeker is better finished with better quality materials compared to a Fountain for example. But let's not make it a US-Euro thing here because that was not my intention. There are also plenty of US products which are better designed and better finished than Euro products. It's just that in the case we're talking about, a Sunseeker will have the upper hand.

It comes down to what demands are answered to each particular buyer. Broad statements regarding taste and finish are non consequential. Any particular boat has to be to the liking only of the one buyer purchasing it.

Another thing that I value when I look at boats is the potential depreciation hit I would have to take down the line when I sell. In the case of a 2000 Tiger or a Sunseeker of the years mentioned I would evaluate it to be the same exposure to depreciation.

Both Brands also are well recognized and respected.

exactly, so you're not crazy afterall for considering this move...

damn GLH, that one with triple 502s for 169K is a steal. plus it says try offers... not the most marketable choice of wood and colors but still a bargain. It lacks info on the number of hours, equipment... do you have any info? i remind you that the "Marine Trader" valuation for a 1996 is 159 250 pounds sterling or over US$ 260K.

I called on that one guy says it needs a good compound and a wax. Also says on the phone that $150k would take it easy. The problem is it is not a Blue and Gold hull and if I go Sunseeker I want these colors.
Picky, Picky, Picky I know...

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/1/4/8/0/1148092_1.jpg

ST,
If on the phone he says 150k it means cash offer might be available around 135-140k. I budget 20k for buffing and some freshening might be a good deal.
As for book valuation I take it with a grain of salt, we all know something is only worth what one individual will pay for it, not what is printed. The good thing is that if financed the boat's book value easily qualifies then.

that was my point concerning the book value. it also depends on the season. they'll be much more valuable come March or April. anyway, I think 135K cash would do it and this would make it the cheapest one I've ever seen. And I don't know what they charge for this kinda stuff in the US but for 20K, you could really make it nice, even have the hull awlgripped in blue. what are the hours on engines? overall condition? the interior seems to be in good shape...

ST,
I'll see when I get to Florida if it is still available. I have a few Tigers I want to go over also 3 in FL and 1 in NY state.

GL you can do a lot of paint work if you can get it for that kind of money. Plus a Hydro Hoist :D:D However I have to say you are comparing apples with coconuts!!!!! You know that you will be hurting the first time some one blows past you in a fast rig. Think about if you are ready to hang it up this early.....

Jon

ST your going to get everyone on this site looking at SS now!!!

Dreamer, given your avatar I just don't think I'll be able to sell you the SS idea just like that. And Sunseekers are not for everybody but the point is that they will be a perfect choice for some people and that those people should at least consider them. The tragedy is that some people who would really enjoy this type of boat do not even consider them because they are looked upon less than favourably by the powerboating community. Buying a boat is about what you want and need, not about what others will think.

True, some boats will pass you but I guarantee that a 48 SS will not be the last boat to arrive if it gets rough out there. Besides, unless you have something very "unreasonable" like a canopied Skater with turbines and are pushing 200mph, you're likely to be passed anyway... Sometimes, arriving in style is more important than arriving first... and the journey is often more important than the arrival. And the Sunseeker certainly delivers in both departments.

ST- you give ME a break.....
you come on here what, a whole month ago then start going on how when it comes to go fasts your "sick" of this and "sick" of that and our boats have no, in your words..... "class".... on a site dedicated to go fast boats!!! and then start name dropping all over the place on all the royal people who own them.......please!!!
That would be like me going over to your Sea Ray site(assuming they have one, I wouldnt know) and saying, "Hey guys, you know your boats are a bunch of fat, overwieght, underpowered behemoths and Im sick of this and sick of that, you guys should go buy a go fast"........and then wonder why I pissed off a few people.....
Furthermore, I used to be wary of passing a cruiser, after a channel, getting completly airbourne and accelerating away.....I thought I might be freaking them out even though the boat is so capable of it.....but then I'd stop somewhere later in the day and these guys would be seeking me out and coming up to talk to me and I'd think ...."oh oh here it comes......their pissed" instead they 'd say "OH MAN!, when you passed me back there that was the wildest thing Ive ever seen!!!.....what motors do you have?!!!.......that thing must be a kick to drive!!!! etc etc........I'll say....."Yep, its a whole lotta fun, ....you could buy a real nice one of these for what you got into that......you should buy one!!......and they'll always say "oh, I couldnt do that....no no no......" This will happen a couple of times a day..... what that tells me is that tons of you Sea Ray guys are too *****whipped to get what you really want in a boat......guess what kind of a boat my "EX" wanted.....see ya.
Oh yeah....arriving in "style" as you put it.....is in a Fountain or a Cig or an Outerlimits or something similar.
NOT some juiced up Sea Ray clone where there is so many of them at the marina they become indistinguishale from each other..............doug

st im allready sold on the SS idea... just have to save up for a predator!!!

Easy Doug breath thru your nose, this is all in fun. :D:D

If you read ST's points I will grant you he is new to here but he does bring another view to some issues we frequently discuss. I also would not question his knowledge of hardware specifically diesel's in offshore applications and drives other than Merc that can handle the torque those engines put out. His points might also be made somewhat dryly but that's European humor for you.

The best point is "Buying a boat is about what you want and need, not about what others will think." I had a Fountain 29 for 5 years when I was single and it would not fit the bill for me now. You admit not being interested about cruisers or souped up SeaRay's and I understand I'm not much of a cruiser guy either. I know however that when a Sunseeker shows up at the places I hang I notice it is much more "distinguishable than any SeaRay (besides I couldn't afford a 48' SeaRay that tops out at 35MPH,and would not even consider a boat that cannot do 60MPH). Cig's and Fountain are fast and sexy (I own and have owned each) but even though people do come up to you for the wow factor they are not necessarily the perfect application for all.

Finally referring to the fact that if someone has a certain boat you have to hang out with the same "Boat Type" crowd, that is pure crap I hang with the same gang of boaters from when I had a Fountain 29, a Baja 22, a Cigarette 35 and whatever I will have next, we usually cruise at 45-50 so anyone can follow in practically anything. I do like to know other people's opinion (this is why I started this tread) but in the end the only person I need to impress is me.

From an exported fellow Canadian (French however!).

WOW, just looked at those SS's in the link, those are some fine pieces of work, very sweet boats... :)

twinn29, I was just expressing another point of view which does exist. I already stated that I do like "pure" offshore powerboats and that I would not post on OSO if that was not the case. As for credentials, I will not question yours because everyone can and should express their opinion as long as they have some knowledge or experience to share. You seem to be deep into powerboating and a proud owner of one of those rigs which for me personally gives more weight to your arguments than the fact that you have 1000+ posts. Experience and ownership means that you actually know something, a huge number of posts does not guarantee that, it can mean that you only talk a lot. So I will just say that I build "pure" performance boats, mostly military patrol boats, have a design studio and am an advocate of diesel power and surface drives even though I am a Mercury-MerCruiser dealer for the region I am based in. If that is not enough and any knowledge and experience I may have is rendered worthless by the limited number of posts I have, I am sorry. But I believe my point has been made. I think I have pointed out that people should not look through their noses upon performance cruisers like you have done because if you really try, you can do the same with your Fountain, like I have done. And you didn't like it and I don't think guys who have performance cruisers liked to learn that they've been "*****whipped" either. And there are many of those on OSO because speed is a relative thing. For some, it's 50 mph with their whole family along for the ride, for others it's striving to reach 200 mph strapped in a bucket seat. So treat others like you would like to be treated yourself. I have no problem with you, would boat with you anyday and recognize that a Fountain 29 is a very fun product. But how would you feel if a guy in a 46' Skater with twin 1500 Sterlings pulled up next to you and told you were surely "*****whipped" because you don't have a full canopy, bucket seats, safety air tanks and can't even break 150?

I've posted it already on another thread so sorry to all those who've seen it for repeating myself...

This is a 50' x 10'. Powered by three engine choices:

1. 4 x Yanmar 440hp, ZF 110 2-speed trannie, 84 mph

2. 3 x Seatek 820hp, ZF 312 2-speed trannie, 97 mph

3. 2 x Isotta Fraschini 1260hp, ZF 195 2-speed, 103 mph

All versions use Trimax surface drives in either single or double rudder configuration, depending on clients' request. Also used are SeaPlanes composite plate tabs with all hydraulics inside. In general, everything fragile inc. hydraulic lines, wires etc. are inside the hull and everything is accessible from inside the boat, including steering. Only stainless steel in water. Props are custom-made Rolla five-blade cleavers, six blades for increased payload capacity.

My dream was to find someone crazy enough to order it with triple Torque V12 SCs which produced around 1500hp each at approx. 1200lb. I've looked into it with Torque guys and it's easily feasible. Just the bottom oil radiator had to be placed somewhere else to get the engines low enough but no big deal, plenty of space. Buzzi's La Gran Argentina, on which this hull is based ran 140 mph with 4000 horses of diesel power where engines had a combined weight of 7500lb. It would be scary to see what it could run with 4500 horses and a combined engine weight of just 3600lb. Let's just say that supercats would have a hard time dealing with it.

here's another photo where you see the hull shape a little better, with twin steps...

:eek:

I also make a 63' with quad Seateks and this little thing which... I hope you are seated... just tops 15 mph in its most agressive form. Once OSO members see this one, I am sure to be submerged with orders and requests for more info...

you're heading down the wrong path. come back.

I never taugh sanity would come from Long Island!!! :D:D:D

"Submerged", love that euro wit again!

Hey ST my son has one of those, we keep it in the head in the Cigarette he plays with it on the beach, it's what about 1' long? Ours has Mercs (North American model) but yours undoubtedly come with Trimax's on it! :D:D:D

Choice.

Hey easy there GLH. It's a whopping 24' overall and it's a straight shaft drive with a 60hp Yanmar. I guess you could call it an angled Trimax. However, I recently realized that this Yanmar is naturally-aspirated so I wonder whether I could whipple-charge it or something like that. Anybody out there with a performance kit for a 60hp Yanmar?. I may have to call Innovation Marine for that. The incredible thing about this little fishing rig is that it's just under 6000 lb. dry. That's right, 6000lb. for a 24' boat because we sand-filled the keel for stability.

Troutly, that's an idea.

BTW, do you sell your posts? C'mon be a fair player, how much for 1000? It won't hurt you one bit and I could get some real respect with 1000+ posts...

And if you believe that I have a supped up SeaRay to sell you! :D:D