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There was a 31 Bertram race boat named Rum Runner - BH
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Originally posted by T2x You know there is an old saying "right place..right time"... Aronow was a master of that...no doubt. I agree that we would not have had the names above Donzi, Magnum etc...... but so what? We would still have Bertram...who started the whole vee revolution... (not Aronow)...and a number of other builders, Glastron, Allison, Alim, North American, Maritime, etc. and the actual designers and builders of Don's boats (Wynne Walters, Brownie, Elton Cary..etc, etc) would , no doubt have created other hulls to fill the need for offshore performance boats. Don was great at starting companies and marketing...... but his next step was always to package and peddle these same "brands" to other unsuspecting folk who bought into his "legend" nonsense. Heck.... it still goes on today. If you look at what Sonny Levi was doing in Europe at the same time Don was creating the Donzi's you will see that the offshore performance hull had many fathers...not one. All in all this is an interesting thread....but if you go by the facts..... I don't think we would be in a whole lot different place today on the water with or without Don....except that maybe offshore racers would have gotten smart sooner and sat down rather than stood earlier on the process....Don even stood up...in his cats. Merry Christmas. T2x |
BH, sure you're not thinking of the 29' Mirage "Rum Runner"(ex: Lil' Rhino S-254).
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Dinny Phipps 31 Bertram "Rum Runner" - out of Sea Race - my only link to offshore racing before 1998 - BH
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Originally posted by magnum-bankshot By the way, does anyone know the name of the other boat in that book that featured the rum running cigarette? Hint: a 30' Shadow cat Modified boat was named after her in the early eighties T2x |
Rich gets the prize.... He's been announcing these darn races long enough...i guess he should know that one... and yes pro stock... not modified...my bad
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Originally posted by magnum-bankshot BH, sure you're not thinking of the 29' Mirage "Rum Runner"(ex: Lil' Rhino S-254). |
Originally posted by Spitfire1 I agree with you....this is an interesting thread...but I still have to disagree with you in your generalizations however.......you are a lot more knowledgeable than I am in respect to the different builders in this time period no question....I have no doubt that you probably met many of these guys, ......but I still must disagree with you when you dismiss Dons lineage that was part of his legacy......Magnum...Cigarette...Formula...Donzi.. ..etc....Would these builders aforementioned have filled the void...maybe...there was certainly an abundance of talent there.....but history wouldn't be the same would it???...without Don, the offshore racing world would not be the same........just like we cant erase the likes of Ben Kramer.....although many of us wish we could....I personally don't see it as a detriment or a personality flaw that he was a shrewd business man.....although I guess I might see it differently had I been on the other end of one of his business deals.......but he did sell the glamor didn't he.......yes the offshore performance hull may have many fathers....but lets give Don credit......he certainly was one of them. Rich I agree with you. T2x, Aronow may have been more of a promoter than designer. However, no product in the world no matter how well designed will go anywhere without the proper promotion. Obviously, you have great experience and insider knowledge that most of us do not have. However, I must say, I detect a slight bit of "sour grapes" in your commentary. You and Aronow have a little bad blood along the way maybe? Anyway, I'm not convinced we would be where we are now without Don's efforts. Was Bertram really going to promote the hull in performance boating? Maybe, if Don had not so totally dominated that market. Bertram put the "V" technology into big sportfishers so as not to compete with the unbeatable. The boys at Glastron stayed in small boat arena. The point here is, had Don not taken the lead, our sport may not have advanced as it has. Who's to say what the other guys might have done. Fact is,,,, Don did it!!!! |
Originally posted by ThirdBird . T2x, However, I must say, I detect a slight bit of "sour grapes" in your commentary. You and Aronow have a little bad blood along the way maybe? No "bad blood" that I know of......... I've reflected on your question a bit, and can give you all of the significant interplay we had. Point #1. I remember the first time I saw Don. He almost started a fist fight with Ken Kalibat at the 1965 Around Long Island Marathon driver's meeting....and then backed off quite a bit when he realized Kenny was as big as he was. Aside from being an interesting moment at my then young age...I have no issue. Point #2 I remember him crawling under our Shadows at the New York boat show (cats and vees)....and dismissing the cat........ as "not good in rough water"....I actually got a laugh out of that one....and I shook my head some....but no lasting "issue". Point #3 My TV career was actually after Aronow's hey day...so the few times I interviewed himn were about "The Old Days".... He was always polite, albeit disinterested..... No issues there either. I'm certainly sorry he was shot....but I would be a hypocrite if I claimed to have been a big fan , either before or after his death. Originally posted by ThirdBird Bertram put the "V" technology into big sportfishers so as not to compete with the unbeatable. The boys at Glastron stayed in small boat arena. Bertram's "49'er" and other race hulls were certainly not "sportfisherman" and in many ways were the equal of the Donzi's, Cigarettes and Magnums. Are you familiar with the aluminum Maritimes like "Big Broad Jumper"??? or the Nova's???How about the English built Souters, "Surfury" and others??? The Italians had a pretty fair showing of hulls as well. I could also add Scarab...... but I can't tell them apart from a Cigarette.... to this day. T2x |
Never ever debate T2x in offshore trivia. There's just too much stuff in that guy's head! BH
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