WEIGHT! is there really any substitute?
 

i see all these claims " yes , its great in the rough water" but i have a hard time believing alot of them.

if it only weighs around 5000 lbs. how good can the ride be in big water? im talking about vee's here , not cats.

does anyone make a light boat that can handle big water comfortably?

ok , im bored and wanted to try and start a good topic.

Oh, a resin bucket calling out light weights. Now you ARE starting something WWIII.:D I had a heavy Donzi that rode like a John Boat because it was too wide. Weight is a must for big water, but you need to be able to slice the water also. I think weight is a good thing as long as you have the power to push it. Plus weight usually means strenght unless you have a bunch of whales on board:eek: :D

Well this is the beginning of an interesting topic. What is the best ratio between fiberglass and resin? and what percent of the glass of a good boat is woven vs sprayed?

Roby

not trying to start ww111 although wars ARE fun to watch:D
its a legit question. one that i havent really seen addressed here before specifically. doesnt have to be any certain length or weight. its a design delema that i wonder about is all.

my boat is awsome in the rough stuff and is only 4500 lbs

Since I was talking about it on another thread...
The Superboat 30' Y2K weighs in well under 5000 lb.(about 4500-4800lb). This boat is always in the front of the F1 pack under rough water conditions. 30'... 7' beam... hard to beat in a vee of this size in rough water.;)

Of course there's also the BAT BOATS!

There are a lot of trade offs but the old addage goes as follows.

"There's No Replacement For Displacement"

Yes you can lighten them up some but too much then you start flying around pretty good.

Sean

As a general rule, the longer and narrower you can make a boat, the smoother and faster it will be.

I've been to lots of composite sites... they all claim that idea ratio of resin to cloth is 52 percent resin to 48 percent cloth... by weight.... hence all the hooplah around vacuum infusion and vacuum bagging... but I think ride on rough water is more influenced by hull shape and how deep the vee is... a flatter hull will be faster and plane better... a deep vee all the way to the transom will land softer when coming off the waves.. at least that is my opinion.... any one have a differing opinion? let's hear it! Also balance and center of gravity affect the ride quality too... a light bow with a heavy transom will experience more pitch... ( twin engines... no cabin) than a staggered arrangement and a cabin.

Performance aside, speaking purely of ride comfort or the perception of comfort, there are two facotrs which will vary this the most. The first is weight, the second is deadrise(throughout the entire length of the boat, because it varies).

You will perceive a rough ride when you suddenly change direction and your mass is displaced; It's all about acceleration. The faster the acceleration, whether up, down or side-to-side, the worse the comfort level.

The forces generating the accelerations are changing surfaces of the water.

A sharper deadrise displaces water more gradually, thus the reaction forces are lower, lending greater comfort.

Likewise, a heavier boat will resist a change in it's motion moreso than a lighter one and will therefore experience smaller accelerations, once again it will be more comfortable.

...Performance aside-speaking only of comfort.

I agree with Bajadaze... thinking a heavy boat is better handling harkens back to the days when the myth about car handling was "It's got to have lots of road holding weight" and we all know sports cars handle a lot better than a big heavy sedan... but for ride comfort... you can't beat a heavy car with a long wheelbase.

It all goes back to the old adage "all boats are compomises".

I like a heavy boat not only for the ride, but I don't want the sob to break up under me either. I rode on a freind's boat many years ago and you could feel it flexing under you all the time. I kept waiting for the bow to just break off and us become a submarine.

I certainly do not profess to be any kind of expert, but I would say, with all things being equal, give me a light boat over a heavy boat everytime. With todays components and technoligy, I think a lighter boat is stronger. When a lighter boat comes out of the water and re-enters, it has less inertia, (the resistance to movement of a fixed object, or its tendency to remain in motion) than a heavy boat. So, when the light boat comes down, less energy is expelled. Less energy potentally cause less damage and stress on all components. We are talking about performance boats here, not ice breakers. Unless, you want this heavy hull absorb all this energy! For every reason someone gives me to have a heavy boat, I can give you more reasons to make it light. Remember, we are talking modern boat building of today. Did I make any sense at all?

Whiteknuckle, you are correct. However, you are talking about performance, in the sense of a boat's ability to resist damage. What is comfortable for the boat, may not be comfortable for the occupants. :)

I was just going to mention the same thing ;)

Roby

BD & Robyw1,

I hear what you are saying, but I'm not convinced. I guess I would have to ride in the two exact boats, one being heavy and one considerable lighter to be made a believer. Just for the sake of discussion, even if the heavier boat rode better, would that be worth the trade off's? The extra power required, the more stress on the drives, the extra fuel. the less responsive handling? I guess it all depends on what you are after, and what compromises you are willing to make and how hard core you want to be.

Well try this, throw a bowling ball on a trampoline and notice the soft landing. Then throw a soccer ball on it and notice that it stops suddenly. Now if there were a miniature you on top of that soccer ball then you would probably be injured due to the force of being stopped in such a brisk matter.
Roby

[QUOTE](. I guess I would have to ride in the two exact boats, one being heavy and one considerable lighter to be made a believer. ]

Wicked Won and Jerry McConnell have the same hull with the same horsepower and the boats weigh around 3000lbs different. I wonder what they would say? Pretty unique example I should think. Hopefully they will "weigh" in on the subject. NK

Water is not suspended by springs, it is a fluid. Water is displaced when a boat re-enters, hence the splash!

rough boating
 

i can tell you as an experienced boater for over 12 years at loto. you will not find rougher inconsistant water anywhere. i've been on everything from fountains, bajas, hustlers, nortech, just about every v bottom you can think of. the stepped hulls just dont work well at all. the regular v's handle the water the best. i had a 36 outlaw that rode as good as any, and recently upgraded to thew 40 outlaw. and i dont think theres a better ride without going to a cat out there. even the 50 nortech and 46 black thunder will not stay in the water down there. just put the tabs down and run 50 and hold on.

Here we go again with bashing stepped hulls. :rolleyes:

Actually, when examining only the vertical degree of freedom of a boat traveling through water, it shares a remarkable resemblance to a mass-spring-damper system. ;)

In my humble, unprofessional, mostly unqualified but not so inexperienced opinion,,,,,,, two boats, same hulls, one weighing substantially more,,,,,,,,,,,, the heavier one's gotta ride better.

Again, thats "felt" ride quality, not handling or performance.

"Tastes great"............. "Less filling"............ "Tastes great".................... "Less filling".................... :p

BD,
Ok, that does, it! That explains it, I musta missed that day of physics class.

WEIGHT! is there really any substitute?

My boat is light and skinny and it rides pretty good compared to similar length boats.

If you don't believe me just ask her .... :D

Or them.

Hey DaveM,

Are those chains holding that bikini bottom on? I would imagine it would need something strong.:D

Here's my observation.....
After riding in a 23.5 Sea Ray which is a very heavy boat and riding in my buddies 23 Checkmate, the Sea Ray was more comfortable in rough stuff especially when re-entering the water after a "good one".
Also, the C-mate was small block powered and the Sea Ray was a big block, and the C-mate was about 5-8 mph faster..... In my opinion, weight was the major factor between the two. I would think that this comparison would apply to longer boats as well.

Now if I had to choose one for the day...... I'd choose the bright red Checkmate with thru hull exhaust that runs 65 over the Sea Ray any day of the week

Re: rough boating
 

WOW!!!I DAMN NEAR ALMOST CAN'T RESIST!!! A 40 OUTLAW vs A 50 NOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

I saw that too Joey:rolleyes: , and as far as rough, inconsistent water, I think any of the Great Lakes would send him home thinking LOTO was smooth.:D

:) :cool:

actually, "rough" was mentioned and the first thing that came to mind was THAT cape cod race!!...savannah too!

I asked a simular question a few weeks back. It seems that weight is a big issue for the ride vs speed question. As for steps, they get my vote !:D

Speaking of "WEIGHT" ..... Did anyone catch the "Romeo Void" reunion last nite on VH1 ????:D


As far as the boats go .... it seems that JD has to "pay a bit more attention" to things then I do when it kicks up !!! At least thats what he says ..... I've been in his boat maybe once when it was just a little choppy and it was just AWESOME !!!!! You definately will have a "smoother" feel in a bit heavier boat when your crankin it up in the rough stuff .... but then again ... most guys with heavy boats are always tryin to lighten them up so with that said .....

Damn that chick from Romeovoid was XL !!!!!!!!!:p

why are you even putting baja in the same category as nortech.... or any performance boat for that matter? Look what happens as they hit barges..... they delaminate. You can definately tell that the resin didn't permeate completely through the cloth.

Are you kidding me... :rolleyes:

Brian

The barge permeated very well however.

50 nortech
 

let me set the record straight. i love nortech's i'm actually looking at the 50' now, i'm just saying that no matter what size boat you have after the loto shootout last year i saw 2,000 boats all leave one area at about the same time and saw 6-7' waves. obviously there are ocean waves in storms that would be taller, but not more inconsistent. come down to the lake over memorial day or 4th of july or shootout and then tell me an inland lake harder to boat in. i hope i'm in the nortech by memorial day, but the baja 40 does ride very good. i know its not as high end believe me but still has great ride. i heard lasy year there were 3,000 boats in party cove on saturday of the 4th. and alot of them are 50' searays and cruisers

Extra Large? :o