are pleasure boats running too fast?
03-02-2004, 09:22 AM
#51
Registered
Regerdless of the timing of this thread, we all need to face the fact that SOME regulation will be coming our way.
I don't think it will come from the government, but instead insurance companies.
Today, the FAA regulates all the liscensing of pilots. As a holder of a "multi-engine, isntrument airplane" rating, that means that according to the government, I can legally jump into ANY aircraft that fits that category and fly in instrument conditions.
HOWEVER, when it comes to insurance regulations and common sense , I must first meet their requirements of training, experience in that PARTICULAR plane, etc.
Another example already brought up is motorcycles. Yes, anyone can own and ride (provided they have a liscence which could be earned on a moped nearly) a 180+ mph bike. The question is can they get insurance and are they responsible enough to handle the bike.
I was nearly killed on a ZX-11 ten years ago and I was going 75 mph. My best friend was killed the same night at the same time 1 mile behind me doing 75 on my Harley.
It's not the capability of the machine, but more, the operator and conditions.
I fear that we will probably face some sort of regulation in the near future, but I also fear that this regulation will have no effect.
When it comes down to the fact of the matter, WE are responsible for the safe operation of ALL our vehicles.
I am truly sorry for those and the families of those who have lost their lives enjoying the sport we all love. They will be missed. Let us hope that we can all at least learn from these terrible misfortunes and do everything possible to limit our and our passengers risk as much as possible while still being able to freely enjoy our wonderful sport.
I don't think it will come from the government, but instead insurance companies.
Today, the FAA regulates all the liscensing of pilots. As a holder of a "multi-engine, isntrument airplane" rating, that means that according to the government, I can legally jump into ANY aircraft that fits that category and fly in instrument conditions.
HOWEVER, when it comes to insurance regulations and common sense , I must first meet their requirements of training, experience in that PARTICULAR plane, etc.
Another example already brought up is motorcycles. Yes, anyone can own and ride (provided they have a liscence which could be earned on a moped nearly) a 180+ mph bike. The question is can they get insurance and are they responsible enough to handle the bike.
I was nearly killed on a ZX-11 ten years ago and I was going 75 mph. My best friend was killed the same night at the same time 1 mile behind me doing 75 on my Harley.
It's not the capability of the machine, but more, the operator and conditions.
I fear that we will probably face some sort of regulation in the near future, but I also fear that this regulation will have no effect.
When it comes down to the fact of the matter, WE are responsible for the safe operation of ALL our vehicles.
I am truly sorry for those and the families of those who have lost their lives enjoying the sport we all love. They will be missed. Let us hope that we can all at least learn from these terrible misfortunes and do everything possible to limit our and our passengers risk as much as possible while still being able to freely enjoy our wonderful sport.
Last edited by SummerObsession; 03-02-2004 at 09:25 AM.
03-02-2004, 09:28 AM
#52
VIP Member
Saw this on CBPBA.com
This is the Kiss of Death four us right here:
This morning's Washington Post had the following:
1 Dead, 1 Missing In Race Boat Debut
Pasadena Men Were Testing New Craft
By Michael Amon
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, March 2, 2004; Page B08
A boat builder was killed and another man was missing after a new, high-performance racing craft in which they were riding overturned on the Chesapeake Bay during its first test run Sunday afternoon, authorities said.
The body of Edwin J. Mosmiller Jr., 52, of Pasadena was found about 10 p.m. Sunday a few miles off the northern Anne Arundel County shoreline. His body was inside the new 40-foot racing boat recently built by his Baltimore company, said Heather Lynch, a spokeswoman for the Department of Natural Resources police.
Authorities yesterday were searching for Mosmiller's friend, Roger B. Madden, 42, also of Pasadena, who was driving the boat, Lynch said.
The boat is a long, sleek craft called a skater. The two were testing the craft -- dubbed Exceed the Need -- two miles off Gibson Island, cruising at high speed, when the boat overturned, Lynch said.
Skaters that Mosmiller has designed can reach 170 mph, according to Power Boat magazine. "It was a new vessel designed for racing, and they were testing the speed on it," Lynch said.
Natural Resources police used a helicopter yesterday to search the surface over a five-square-mile area south of Belvedere Shoals, Lynch said. Police boats also dragged the bottom of the bay in a quarter-square-mile area in hopes of finding Madden's body, she said.
Mosmiller and Madden left the Pasadena Yacht Yard about 2 p.m. on a calm, sunny day. Madden had the steering wheel, while Mosmiller controlled the speed of the two-seat boat, Lynch said.
Witnesses told police that the boat was cruising at extremely high speed when it suddenly capsized about 2:30 p.m., Lynch said. "We're still investigating why it happened," Lynch said. She said weather conditions did not appear to be a factor in the crash.
"We believe it was pretty calm, with minimal wind," she said.
Mosmiller and Madden were experienced boaters and owned businesses in the industry, said Louis Doetsch, owner of the Pasadena Yacht Yard. "They had been in boating for a long time," Doetsch said.
Madden Marine Services, based in Baltimore, sells engines, transports yachts and provides boat repair services. Madden "was a real good mechanic," said Doetsch, who had hired him as the yard's repairman two years ago.
For Mosmiller, who owned a machinery shop in Pasadena, high-speed boat racing was a passion, Doetsch said. He owned a series of sleek, swift racing boats and participated in high-speed races on the Chesapeake called "poker runs," Doetsch said.
A few years ago, Mosmiller started his boat-building company, Integrated Turbine Services, because he "couldn't find what he was searching for on the open market," according to his Web site. http://www.integratedturbine.com/
"Ed wanted the ultimate performance boat to satisfy his need for speed," his Web site says. "It had to be fast, stylish, safe, and possess incredible handling characteristics."
The finished product -- the ITS Turbine Skater -- was "a lesson in simplicity," according to a March 2003 review in Power Boat. Mosmiller told Doetsch that he put two helicopter engines in Exceed the Need, the boat that crashed Sunday, Doetsch said.
"It was a new experiment for him," Doetsch said.
"He owned a series of sleek, swift racing boats and participated in high-speed races on the Chesapeake called "poker runs," Doetsch said."
I HATE the media. Not only did Powerboat Magazine step in it by telling the Post the speeds, but this sealed our fate right here. I can't imagine what this Doetsch was thinking when he said this.
This is the Kiss of Death four us right here:
This morning's Washington Post had the following:
1 Dead, 1 Missing In Race Boat Debut
Pasadena Men Were Testing New Craft
By Michael Amon
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, March 2, 2004; Page B08
A boat builder was killed and another man was missing after a new, high-performance racing craft in which they were riding overturned on the Chesapeake Bay during its first test run Sunday afternoon, authorities said.
The body of Edwin J. Mosmiller Jr., 52, of Pasadena was found about 10 p.m. Sunday a few miles off the northern Anne Arundel County shoreline. His body was inside the new 40-foot racing boat recently built by his Baltimore company, said Heather Lynch, a spokeswoman for the Department of Natural Resources police.
Authorities yesterday were searching for Mosmiller's friend, Roger B. Madden, 42, also of Pasadena, who was driving the boat, Lynch said.
The boat is a long, sleek craft called a skater. The two were testing the craft -- dubbed Exceed the Need -- two miles off Gibson Island, cruising at high speed, when the boat overturned, Lynch said.
Skaters that Mosmiller has designed can reach 170 mph, according to Power Boat magazine. "It was a new vessel designed for racing, and they were testing the speed on it," Lynch said.
Natural Resources police used a helicopter yesterday to search the surface over a five-square-mile area south of Belvedere Shoals, Lynch said. Police boats also dragged the bottom of the bay in a quarter-square-mile area in hopes of finding Madden's body, she said.
Mosmiller and Madden left the Pasadena Yacht Yard about 2 p.m. on a calm, sunny day. Madden had the steering wheel, while Mosmiller controlled the speed of the two-seat boat, Lynch said.
Witnesses told police that the boat was cruising at extremely high speed when it suddenly capsized about 2:30 p.m., Lynch said. "We're still investigating why it happened," Lynch said. She said weather conditions did not appear to be a factor in the crash.
"We believe it was pretty calm, with minimal wind," she said.
Mosmiller and Madden were experienced boaters and owned businesses in the industry, said Louis Doetsch, owner of the Pasadena Yacht Yard. "They had been in boating for a long time," Doetsch said.
Madden Marine Services, based in Baltimore, sells engines, transports yachts and provides boat repair services. Madden "was a real good mechanic," said Doetsch, who had hired him as the yard's repairman two years ago.
For Mosmiller, who owned a machinery shop in Pasadena, high-speed boat racing was a passion, Doetsch said. He owned a series of sleek, swift racing boats and participated in high-speed races on the Chesapeake called "poker runs," Doetsch said.
A few years ago, Mosmiller started his boat-building company, Integrated Turbine Services, because he "couldn't find what he was searching for on the open market," according to his Web site. http://www.integratedturbine.com/
"Ed wanted the ultimate performance boat to satisfy his need for speed," his Web site says. "It had to be fast, stylish, safe, and possess incredible handling characteristics."
The finished product -- the ITS Turbine Skater -- was "a lesson in simplicity," according to a March 2003 review in Power Boat. Mosmiller told Doetsch that he put two helicopter engines in Exceed the Need, the boat that crashed Sunday, Doetsch said.
"It was a new experiment for him," Doetsch said.
"He owned a series of sleek, swift racing boats and participated in high-speed races on the Chesapeake called "poker runs," Doetsch said."
I HATE the media. Not only did Powerboat Magazine step in it by telling the Post the speeds, but this sealed our fate right here. I can't imagine what this Doetsch was thinking when he said this.
Last edited by Sydwayz; 03-02-2004 at 09:35 AM.
03-02-2004, 09:30 AM
#53
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
I think those event resonate hard here but to affect legislation regarding speed I doubt it, there simply isn't enough of us.
Regarding the insurance industry, I doubt a cat that can run 160MPH with turbines can get insurance anyway.
Regarding the insurance industry, I doubt a cat that can run 160MPH with turbines can get insurance anyway.
03-02-2004, 09:44 AM
#55
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WHOA Super Termoli::::
Thats just not right,,, You state that people should not take there Family out in 170+ open cockpit boats ,,,, thats just not right ,,, its inflammatory at best ,,, first off ,, if you think of the area that you or I, and most of us on this board boat in,,,, You can count the number of boats that go over a 100 on one hand ,,,, I am not talking about the ones we hear or read about ,, I am talking about the ones that we boat with on any given weekend ... It just does not happen at 150-170 plus...
Its not about regulations, its about being responsible for ones own actions,,, and unfortunately you just cant teach Dumb!!! sometimes it just comes neutrally.
Having said that ,,, any Death is a tragedy,,, but the last 3-4 Hi speed boating accidents (I believe) were caused by equipment failure when the vessel was pushed to its limits!!! Of course there are arguments for every side in these cases,,, however ,,, regulations are not the answer,,
Lastly ,,, the reason this topic is getting so much conversation is because we are all very involved with Hi Performance boating ,,,, but remember this board only consists of approx 13,500 people and that is surely a small portion of the boating industry,,,
We, as a group need to watch and act responsible for ourselves,,,, Otherwise we will be Regulated out of the very Hobby that we so much enjoyed.
RHC
Its not about regulations, its about being responsible for ones own actions,,, and unfortunately you just cant teach Dumb!!! sometimes it just comes neutrally.
Having said that ,,, any Death is a tragedy,,, but the last 3-4 Hi speed boating accidents (I believe) were caused by equipment failure when the vessel was pushed to its limits!!! Of course there are arguments for every side in these cases,,, however ,,, regulations are not the answer,,
Lastly ,,, the reason this topic is getting so much conversation is because we are all very involved with Hi Performance boating ,,,, but remember this board only consists of approx 13,500 people and that is surely a small portion of the boating industry,,,
We, as a group need to watch and act responsible for ourselves,,,, Otherwise we will be Regulated out of the very Hobby that we so much enjoyed.
RHC
03-02-2004, 09:45 AM
#56
Registered
Originally posted by GLH
I think those event resonate hard here but to affect legislation regarding speed I doubt it, there simply isn't enough of us.
Regarding the insurance industry, I doubt a cat that can run 160MPH with turbines can get insurance anyway.
I think those event resonate hard here but to affect legislation regarding speed I doubt it, there simply isn't enough of us.
Regarding the insurance industry, I doubt a cat that can run 160MPH with turbines can get insurance anyway.
Be prepard in the near future to answer the question from your agent: "Do you participate in any Poker run Races?". Policy cancelled, or at least premium doubled, even if they don't have a clue what a "Poker Run" is.
03-02-2004, 09:49 AM
#57
Registered
You hear ll the time that "It's all about perception", and that's very true.
Even if we are a VERY small part of boating, it's the perception from the government, insurance, whoever that will be our enemy.
My .04 or .06 cents.
Even if we are a VERY small part of boating, it's the perception from the government, insurance, whoever that will be our enemy.
My .04 or .06 cents.
03-02-2004, 09:55 AM
#58
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
I can't skydive because of the life insurance issue, not that I would.
I think the "poker run" question will be preceded by a lot before it happens. Flying a private plane is already one and motorcycle riding, skiing, heck swimming... will be included in there they have much more casualty than performance boating.
On an actuarial point of view in the view of insurance Co.'s I would wager a lot that deaths due to performance boating probably do not even remotely register on statical charts. Governments do reactive legislation based on the media and sensationalism headlines, insurance like all private sector industries have a more fact based way to analyze and issue directives.
I think the "poker run" question will be preceded by a lot before it happens. Flying a private plane is already one and motorcycle riding, skiing, heck swimming... will be included in there they have much more casualty than performance boating.
On an actuarial point of view in the view of insurance Co.'s I would wager a lot that deaths due to performance boating probably do not even remotely register on statical charts. Governments do reactive legislation based on the media and sensationalism headlines, insurance like all private sector industries have a more fact based way to analyze and issue directives.
03-02-2004, 09:58 AM
#59
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
We are on the same wavelength SO.
I would say however the insurance industry is still there to turn a profit for there investors so their decisions will be better based than the government.
There is a market for boat insurance still. As for ZX-11's if you are willing to pay.
I would say however the insurance industry is still there to turn a profit for there investors so their decisions will be better based than the government.
There is a market for boat insurance still. As for ZX-11's if you are willing to pay.
03-02-2004, 10:00 AM
#60
Registered
True. However, if just of of those guys start figuring the Probablility factor as HP and speed go up, it could spell trouble for all of us.
I surely hope I am wrong, that would be great!
I surely hope I am wrong, that would be great!
