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Ft. Myers Race cancelled?

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Old 03-18-2004, 06:05 PM
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Pete,

If you could post the info. ASAP of who you spoke to on the city counsel and got that information from it would greatly help to move it along. They are not aware of who it could of been and also very curious.

Frank
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Old 03-18-2004, 08:16 PM
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WOW this thread came to a hault quick...

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Old 03-19-2004, 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by Gordo
Are they? Not unlike you, I have the "eggs" to stand behind what I think, feel, and believe in, up front and in public.

On the other side of the fence, there's a weasel with no "sac" doing as much damage as possible behind the scenes.

You can keep cussing brand "A" tires all you want. But until you get rid of that nail in the driveway, you're still gonna have a flat.
The following are purely my opinions and do not represent anything beyond one man's musings.

Gordo...there are now .....and will always be.............. A** holes in this sport...in all groups...... Currently I could name a dozen crossing the lines from APBA to SBI to OSS....So what? The bottom line is that if you let them push your buttons you become the weapon that they use to fester a continued downward spiral.......I have had run ins with a few of the past...and present......APBA hierarchy, at least one OSS Board member, and a smattering of SBI loyalists........ Since there is no spray to rid ourselves of these boneheads, nor a litmus test to clearly identify them...... we'll just have to keep bringing the conversation back on track and ignore their harmful protestations and whining.

The goal is to ultimately get to a unified, focused sport. The personal agendas of individuals, the personal investments of "shareholders", and the personal incomes of "bubbas"....... should all be ignored in the pursuit of that end. Think "clean sheet of paper" with all current officers, chair persons, owners, officials, and directors off the chart. Treat them as the inconsequential names that they, in fact, are.

As far as I a concerned Bob Bull/APBA LLC bought a flawed contract that was coerced into existence by threat of legal action to APBA Detroit board members....who flinched at the wrong moment. The LLC has always been a for profit scheme that put the balance sheet and corporate/sponsor interests well ahead of the racer and has existed purely on bullish tactics (no pun intended) and spiteful actions.

The concept is failing........It needs to go away.

SBI/John Carbonell has a business that depends on a minimum number of racers to continue to show up. In exchange, he basically guarantees some form of trophy or championship, minimizes rules to enable this and openly seeks out "sponsors" to continue to fund his "series" on a short term and hand to mouth basis.

The concept is failing........It needs to go away.

OSS ( and OPA for that matter) were formed as alternatives to the above...... to give the racers at least some say in how their money is spent and where and how they race their boats. The drawbacks to these are an absence of existing infrastructure and no affiliation with UIM/APBA Detroit..... These are not fully fleshed out efforts, do not have a mature National circuit as yet.....and have (in the case of OSS) a steep learning curve.

These concepts are probably stop gap measures rather than a long term solution. OPA should become a viable regional race source similar to Pacific Offshore and OPBRA in Fla..... OSS at some point should represent the major class competitor's needs...and provide them a forum for negotiating race packages, terms and so forth.
But the bottom line is only one sanctioning body can be allowed...by the racers..... to exist.

Eventually, the APBA needs to re-acquire the rights to Offshore...... and........ absent the current baggage and "ownership" issues........ proceed to redevelop and define Offshore racing on a National scale, with the cooperation and approval of its members...... and this will take a team builder/leader.

There should be limited (one or two) featured televised classes...... and an unlimited number of developmental classes....WITH NO TV ..... NO "ALTERNATE" PROGRAMS... NADA.....ZIPPO. This will cure the confusion amongst civilian TV watchers for once and for all........and allow sponsors to gain value from the programming. This will bring real dollars into the sport at the National level..... and create LATER interest at regional and local levels.

Events can be held..... once again...... in conjunction with UIM and overseas entries can be.....once again... welcomed here as part of the true World Championship circuit...not the ersatz B.S. we hold each year at three separate .... confusing... venues.

This is an opportunity to seize the moment and combine the old racing elements that worked (the baby thrown out with the bath water) to the newer "spec" concepts and levelizing methods currently in place.

Or you can simply go on supporting "your" group.

T2x

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Old 03-19-2004, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Mathews
T2X,

However, let's let Bob, Jim, & their crew give it a go before condemning them. They have only held the wheel for 2 months.

Mark
I'm not condemning them....... nor giving them any credence either.

The fact of the matter is the LLC still exists.......... APBA Detroit does not have control over it....... and a number of racers have walked away from it.

If you take a clean sheet of paper.......... and the sport desparately needs that........ there can be nothing...or no one....on it.

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Old 03-19-2004, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by T2x
only one sanctioning body can be allowed...by the racers..... to exist.

Eventually, the APBA needs to re-acquire the rights to Offshore...... and........ absent the current baggage and "ownership" issues........ proceed to redevelop and define Offshore racing on a National scale, with the cooperation and approval of its members...... and this will take a team builder/leader.

This is an opportunity to seize the moment and combine the old racing elements that worked (the baby thrown out with the bath water) to the newer "spec" concepts and levelizing methods currently in place.

T2x

As previously stated, I am a relatively "newbie" in the overall sport/hobby/passion of offshore boating. That does not bother me in the least. In many situations fresh blood can be helpful or at least offer insight.

All the lawsuits, court decisions, broken promises, bad feelings, mistrust, etc. not withstanding, I don't understand why the new ownership of APBA Offshore, particularly with the team that has been put together and the respect these people obviously have earned in the offshore community, are not at least given one small chance to turn things around. Talk about guilt by association, this has to be one of the great examples of all time. Just think of the positive consequences that could occur IF they were given that one small chance, and they pulled it off. From an objective point of view, it just doesn't seem that much to ask, particularly given the overall state of affairs. Nothing more than my inexperienced opinion.
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Old 03-19-2004, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Mathews
. It gives us "nobody's" a lot of insight. Mark
If I thought I was a "somebody"........... the people who raised me would kick my a**.

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Old 03-19-2004, 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by Formula Outlaw

All the lawsuits, court decisions, broken promises, bad feelings, mistrust, etc. not withstanding, I don't understand why the new ownership of APBA Offshore, particularly with the team that has been put together and the respect these people obviously have earned in the offshore community, are not at least given one small chance to turn things around.
That's a mouthful.......... and although very earnest and hopeful fails to take into account..... that all of the lawsuits, broken promises, bad feelings, and mistrust have a price......... and that price cannot be paid..... nor does the "purchase" of all that baggage entitle it to survive.

The APBA/LLC has one asset.......... Steve David...... who is also an APBA Detroit member/Director. Steve certainly doesn't need the LLC initials to do his thing....... and neither do the racers.

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Old 03-19-2004, 12:40 PM
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T2X
I HAVE BEEN READING POSTS AND TRYING NOT TO LAUGH
BUT DON'T TELL ME THEY ARE STILL TRYING TO MAKE THIS GO. YOU KNOW THE OLD SAYING IF YOU LAY DOWN WITH DOGS THAT HAVE FLEAS YOU GET FLEAS.
QUESTION DID EVERBODY FORGET ABOUT THE BB OF SEVERAL YEARS AGO.....

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Old 03-19-2004, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by T2x
That's a mouthful.......... and although very earnest and hopeful fails to take into account..... that all of the lawsuits, broken promises, bad feelings, and mistrust have a price......... and that price cannot be paid..... nor does the "purchase" of all that baggage entitle it to survive.

T2x

I took it very strongly in account about all the ill will from all the areas it originated from, irregardless of who/where/how. I just think that guilt by association is wrong. Nothing more. I'm not saying that I'm right. I don't know if I am or not. I'm just saying that the new group should be given an honest chance to make things right. This new group is certainly paying a price, every single day. They are paying in spades for the mistakes of others. They seem to be imploring "offshore" to just give them a chance, yet it seems to fall on many deaf ears. Who among us would want to be blamed or chastised for the wrong doing of others? Not me, not you, not anyone.
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Old 03-19-2004, 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by Formula Outlaw
I took it very strongly in account about all the ill will from all the areas it originated from, irregardless of who/where/how. I just think that guilt by association is wrong. Nothing more. I'm not saying that I'm right. I don't know if I am or not. I'm just saying that the new group should be given an honest chance to make things right. This new group is certainly paying a price, every single day. They are paying in spades for the mistakes of others. They seem to be imploring "offshore" to just give them a chance, yet it seems to fall on many deaf ears. Who among us would want to be blamed or chastised for the wrong doing of others? Not me, not you, not anyone.
Okay....many fair questions...and deserving of answers...

1. While there is nothing to deny new LLC owners a "chance"....... there is nothing that makes them deserving of one either. Nothing has been earned....nothing has been accomplished...and nothing has been done to offset the for profit aspect of the LLC. If "ownership" of a basically bankrupt enterprize has been purchased... what gives the purchasing entity any more rights to represent disenfranchised racers or gain their support than any other entity?

2. APBA Detroit is a member based organization with elected officials...While not perfect (yes there have been questions about money management) eventually there is accountability in the charter (especially after the recent lawsuits and court appointed oversight)...There is still no elected representation in the remnant of the LLC...no accountability and nothing to prevent a recurrence of the same old tired propaganda of the past few years. In fact many of its current staunch supporters are the same voices who backed the previous LLC administration..... and remember...most importantly..... What can be sold...can also be repurchased. Why take that chance? It's time to eliminate the "purchased rights" formula....and give it the burial that it has earned. Lots of us need the closure.

3.The APBA does, in fact, oversee the rules and structure of a number of its divisions, Inboard, stock outboard, OPC etc. Recently it has been the for profit divisions (leased out "rights"), Unlimited, Offshore and Champ/Prop tunnel tours that have experienced the most difficulty. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize that the bigger a membership base and the more unified all classes of boat racing can become...the stronger the sport will be.

4. I don't care who invested what money or for what purpose....Simply having the ability to write checks does not qualify anyone as either being a leader, having a vision, nor worthy of trust.

I am proposing a simple alternative to blind loyalty...and a blind loyalist will obviously struggle with the concept.

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