Cigarette 38 TG - Twin Step or no step?
 

The wife (Mrs. Dawg) and I are planning to buy a Cigarette 38 Top Gun.

The one we planned to buy was the one that crashed in Myrtle Beach. So we're looking again.

Mrs. Dawg found a traditional no-step bottom she liked, thus the debate. She is not convinced that the twin step 38 is the only way to go.

We'd appreciate feedback from those of you who have experience with both.

Chris Prouty

Are you serious Chris? That was the boat? Where have you been DAWG!!!! Are you going to Havasu this weekend?

Yeah, that was the boat.

Not sure about Havasu - we have that movie shooting at the house until early Saturday morning. We're playing it by ear...

Here's my question, since it's going "public" :

If Cigarette was so successful for so many years with the conventional bottom, does the twin step make a marked difference?

Also, does anyone know about how much it costs to repaint a 38 or 42 Cig?

Thanks!

Brigitte Prouty

Re: Cigarette 38 TG - Twin Step or no step?
 

Well, I'm sure we will hear from the experts that have never owned either, but here is an opinion from someone who has.

If you have the means to purchase the T/S, buy it. No question that they outperform the original 10 fold. Much more performance with less power, tons better gas efficiency, they handle the rough smoother and quicker, etc.

They are not the only way to go though. A big 38 straight bottom is a fine machine. They will crash the rough and run in any conditions. They will require more power to run. Usually a substantial amount to run really fast.

If you ride in both, you will buy the T/S. I guarantee you that.

Hope that helps somewhat.

Smells like up dawg ;)

As "PokerRunGunT/S" said, It's the speed they go with such little effort. A T/S with 500EFI will get you 80 MPH all day long.

A straight bottom, FIBERGLASS Cig you will need about 700-750HP to get to 80 MPH. They also made Kevlar and Carbon Fiber Cigs (straight bottom), which are considerably lighter weight than a fiberglass Top Gun. We have a Carbon Fiber Cig that is for sale with Hawk 525SC blower motors that does 72-73.

Hope this helps some.

LS JR.

my buddy bought a 2000 non step 38 Gun last year. He didn't want the step. It ran 72 with the HP 500s. He's building new engines to get it over 80.

No step = no slipping and sliding.

Does the TS introduce safety issues or performance problems?

Been on both
 

I have been on both. Rob (a.k.a Rice Hauler) had a 38TS with 500's that hit the low 80's. He put in 600 Zul's and the tattle tale said she cleared 90 on the GPS. (Rob can give you the exact #'s but I am close).

I have a 97 kevlar with 600's. 77 flat out on the GPS. With lab finished props and increasing the air flow to the carbs she will be in the neighborhood of 82-85.

The TS is a much livelier boat. As everybody says, much less power and more speed. The new vacuum bagged composites are worth every penny.

The only issue is the turning capability. It will slide or slip.

Mr and Mrs. Dawg,
Get the non step with 500s so I can be faster than you again.:D

Todd, you'd like that, wouldn't you?

Driven both:

How fast do you want to go with stock power?
That is the question. They do run very different. A straight hull will give a drag azz feel in anything under 3ft chop. they will out turn a step, and provide a more stable feel (Especially in quartering rear seas.)
However,
A stepped hull is more efficient for speed and fuel consumption. They get a bit squarely in some sea conditions.

Do you want a cabin?
The full pleasure cabin is a great setup. Roomy and well laid out. As for a covergirl or extended covergirl you may be a little cramped.

If you are in Havasu this weekend look for the "Mikayla Hunter" Top Gun. The owners name is Dave. He has a straight hull with 500EFIs and Pro Chargers (715BHP) and XR drives. 82MPH salt 1/4 tanks 3 people. Very nice boat. He can answer any questions about performance.

Hope that helped.

MD

Steps are much better, you just need to be aware of the turning limitations of these boats. The days of just cranking on the wheel are gone for step hull boats.

Big power staright hulls are good boats but keep this in mind....... Straight hull with 750hp will go 82-84mph, twin step with 750hp will get you about 105mph..... does that answer your question!!!!

Bottom line is that if you are going to be running at speeds over 80 in any boat you should be wearing a impact vest and lanyard, period.

Get the little turn fins like Dlaw has on the race boat. They go on the outside of the tabs and act like rudders to avoid sliding around in the rear.

The problem is that when a step boat is trimmed down, it has two turning points, rather than one as on a non step bottom. If the front turning point grabs too hard, the back can come around and create a roll over. Been there done that and got it on video.

Chris,

Have you seen Kevin's yet?

It ought to help you decide! :D

-Al

Well the my Gladiator has seen its share of spins and rolls but this brings me back to the original point..... Tres and Todd ran that boat without a problem on the ragged edge for a season and never experienced handling issues, the next guy that bought the boat promptly spun and rolled her, and then dave Edelstein ran a whole season without problems (atlantic city notwithstanding!). If you respect the boat, are aware of the limitations, wear the appropriate safety equiptment when pushing the limits, then chances are you will be fine. The notion that these baots are going to just eject you out of the blue is non-sense.

Look at Daves, then look at Kevins this weekend. They are similar in HP.

How fast do you really want to go anyway?

Been There Done That
 

I've had the experience of owning all three iterations of the Top gun.
1. Traditional Straight Bottom
2. Cigarette Designed Single Step
3. Michael Peters Designed Twin Step

Beyond the comments regarding the handling and power requirements. The only other thing that I'd like to add is that I feel that the Ride Attitude of the step bottom boats is far superior to the Straight Bottom ones.
The Step Boats ride much flatter and while it takes some getting used to when going from traditional to Stepped. I think that it is far superior in every aspect.
The Straight bottom boats ride noticeably nose high in all conditions except turning.
One other thing to consider. I am really not sure that you can have a traditional "Full Cabin" in a Twin Step and have it really run right. I am sure Tres or Phil can really answer that question. But I think that because of balance issues the Extended Cover Girl Cabin is the extent of things. So if space is an issue you may want to factor that into your shopping equation.
Although I think that I have only ever seen one full cabin Twin Stepped Top Gun. anyway.
Now that your really confused happy hunting.
Best,
Robert Shin
a.k.a. Rice Hauler

NO. The drivers of them do.
I'm not being sarcastic, it's the truth in most cases.
Racing aside (that's a different comparison), steps themselves should not be to blame. They require different driver input (or lack thereof).
Many accidents could probably be avoided by just learning the technique.
The basics are really simple: Do NOT tuck the drives while turning!
No tabs below drives during turns.
Learn how the boat rides and drives before pushing it to it's limits.

You will love the Twin Step.

By the way, if you like baby soft leather in a twin step Cigarette, Click Here

Brigitte & I went to Miami with him to pick it up - that experience actually motivated us to sell our Laveycraft in order to go with a Cig!

Thanks, Kev! :p

We want to be able to go 85-90, with the ability to go 75 all day without laboring the motors.

We are still undecided on 500s or 575s, but are resisting the large blown motors or motors that will require a lot of "Teague time".

Also,dont forget that a t/s rides smoother,and you dont have to tab it to stop it from porpoising.

If you buy a boat with 500EFIs and want to go faster I suggest Votec Superchargers. You should get 98-100 MPH.

Straight hull Cig will need about 850 HP to hit those numbers. At that point you will want at least IMCO drives (More likely #5-#6's).

D-Mans boat does the numbers you are talking about with the right power package (He got 400 hours out of his last motors).

Hours on engines will mainly depend on one variable in a Cigarette: Your Right hand (Left hand in a Fountain). Throttle the boat wrong and you better own stock in Merc.

You could do a straight hull w/ 500EFIs and a larger Pro Charger, XR drives and be safe (About 800-825HP???)

Phil at Lipship knows all the HP to MPH variables (Because he has done them all). Check my numbers with him. Plus, if you buy a boat from Phil he teaches you what to do with it. I have yet to hear anyone say Phil sold them a boat and left them to learn how to drive it.

Good luck and I look forward to meeting and talking to you both this weekend.

MD

I think we are going to have our T/S out on the lake on saturday. Flag us down if you want a ride. it has run 81.3 with 500 EFI's on Havasu heavy on fuel.

Sounds like you've made up your mind ....

90+ mph with 525EFI's .... my decision was a no brainer :cool:

Gary,

Am I getting a ride on the TG this weekend?

Havasu Cig - I'm going to be looking for you.

T-bone on this board has an AWESOME Top with Vortechs for sale. Super Clean.
Check it out, it was in the classifeds.

Here it is:
See next post

Nope, thats Randy Sweers. This is T-Bone's. :p :p :p

2002 Top Gun T/S

LS JR.

TS is the only way to go - go with 575's - Ours is for sale - great deal! BH

Yeah Chris, $80 grand will buy alot of paint, drives and chargers!!

I hear ya Brett!!!

i know where there is a 2000 Top Gun T/S that will get above your speed numbers for $185K.

chad

Yeah, me too!!!!

which boat are you talking about??? :D ;)

chad