What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

With the 2.5 offshore becoming Unavailable/obsolete what will replace it.....Anybody have any scoop????

Does the limited availability build more value for owners of late model 2.5's. on the resale market?

Maximus

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

Somebody told me they were going with the 3.0.

I would say yes, at least until 2 strokes become out of fashion.


*theory*
Merc is no longer able to sell the 2.5 race motors anymore with out them being emissions compliant. Apparently the EPA determined that if the unit can be shifted, then it's not a race motor. If merc continues to sell power heads and lower units separatly as a "replacement part" then the 2.5 could live on for some time. The question is if merc will do that or if all 2.5 parts will cease to exist in 8 years.

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

Interesting Theory.

So people who race would have to piecemeal their motors!? that doesn't sound efficient. You've cross the "not stock" line at that point don't you? tough to regulate.

Are you saying they will produce a "lite race version 3.0 liter" ?


Maximus

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

A few points of interest.

1, merc has in the final stages of testing a 2.5 opti on the 3.0 midsection that makes 245 hp at 7000. Once they are comfortable with this, more power is coming.
2, you can still get new motors..... you just have to cheat a little. Merc is going to build replacement parts for years from now. You can buy a drop on power head, a complete midsection and a new gearcase and have a NEW motor....... for the same price as an assembled motor.

Just remember when cars started to switch from carbs we ( well my dad, I am to young) all cried that we can no longer tinker. We look where we are now, unthinkable performance, efficiency and reliability. I am sure these new motors will be ok.

RT

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

The other interesting points are the fact that Merc is just beginning the high performance and racing development of the Verado.....The jury is still out on that one.........But the existing 2.5 Champ motors are Non Shifting (speedmasters)....... Somewhere between those two technologies lies the keys to the puzzle. If Offshore racing would allow an auxiliary trolling motor for reverse maneuvering...than the sport could FINALLY utilize the untapped performance available with the SSM's..... We had great success with them on the 32 foot Rolling Thunder Conquest Cat.... (Higher speed.....less torque transfer to the transom and running gear...almost turbine like prop traction...adjustable x dimensions.....high speed trim response.....lighter engine weight.....etc, etc.).

This might be a revolutionary moment in outboard offshore racing.


T2x

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

Well I would think that Mercury racing is going to see the renewed intrest in Stock class racing an put some effort into it. We are expecting 9 boats at the race in Marathon this weekend ALL with 2.5 280's. 18 of there motors there, it would be nice if they came to support it somehow, even if it was just the Van with some parts, ANYTHING!
You can still get 2.4 parts and 260 parts from mercury.

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

This really is a defining moment in OB history isn't it. From one vantage point the environmentalists's are actually influencing cleaner power utilizing 4 strokes. Mercury by default must pour it's resource's into this product line. eventually they will become smaller and lighter but in the meantime innovation with the current line up will suffer and stall.

Ryan,

I hope they show up to support you guys!


Maximus

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

Kinda, the real funny part is all the marketing!. The Bomber E-Tec motors make more power than any 4 stroke ( except the vercrappo ), burn less fuel and have lower emisions. 2-Stroke is not dead, nor should it be. Merc has just put it's cards in 1 basket, Bomber has gone the other way. This new E-Tec is capable of turning 10, 000 rpm. These motors could be a performance boaters dream. They are light, VERY reliable and make heaps of power..... and there is quality that merc hasn't had since Mr. K died and the bean counters took over.
Bomber has built all its sucess in racing, sleds, pwc's etc..... lets hope they follow that trend.

RT

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

Firewalker,

My new Bomber RXP Pwc 4 stroke is unreal!!! 215 hp smooth as silk all tourqe...nothing can touch it..Word is with some minor chages (boost, inj,mapp) it already puts out over 300 hp. and its a small motor. Could ths be the point Merc gets their marketshare taken like wal mart took Kmart???

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

Merc has been asleep at the switch for a decade .... or more. Since OMC stopped racing the prices have gone NUTS at merc and the quality has gone down.
Bomber can will and should hurt them in the market place.

RT

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

Good for Bomber, Merc needs some good competition for once.

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

I have a friend (drag120 on this board) who drag races a 2.5 on a 16' Seebold tunnel with a non-shifting lower. He has been told that he will have to convert to a motor that will shift for upcoming races. He is NOT happy. Here's a pic of the lower

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

Look familiar? We did this in 1984...... before I became obsolete.

T2x

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

I WANT THOSE ON MY 300x"s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh Baby those lowers look smooth!!!! Screw it I dont need reverse!! :)

I smell speed there!

maximus

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

Very pretty ain't they?........... We'll have a pair on the "Wing".....

T2x

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

jesus christ , george still has the same glasses on ............

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

Curious.....what kind of speed/acceleration difference (Vs the standard 300x sportmaster lower) would we be talking about in a Skater28/Spectre30 type setup IF you were able to bolt those up?

Purely hypothetical

Inquiring minds......

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

Actually you could bolt those up to 300X's with very little changes, you can buy a 15" midsection from Mad EFI http://www.madefi.com/midsec.htm
that you can bolt a 3.0 litre powerhead on and a 2.5 gearcase. Just have to lower the jackplates on your Spectre.

Caleb

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

Oh yea,
Good Luck this weekend Ryan :) :)

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

:)

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

HMMMMMMMMM Boat jewlrey!!!

Performance diff?.....................

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

T2x, are you really going to speedmasters on the Wing?
V or I six?

Damn that is gonna FLY.... literally

As for the speedmasters, well it is more than just theory it has been done. I know of many STV style mod-vp boats that run 20" motors with speedmasters, some with 15" mids and then the STD 12" mid that they were designed for. The drive shaft can be extended to work on the long shaft motors. In all cases with the exception of the 12" mid an adapter plate is required to fit the speedmaster case.
Acceleration will suffer a lot!, two reasons. One being that the prop WILL not slip with no exhaust running over it and two, being that the props have no diameter ( 10 1/4 is the biggest from merc). Now here is another few problems, they are left hand rotation.... meaning you would have to rotate your 300X backwards..... and you will HAVE to religiously change the oil after EVERY run.
A few solutions are, have the gearcase built for RH rotation ( David Steckbauer can do this), and the run 5L inboard hydro props available from merc on them... up to 12" diameter.
The boat will be slightly faster, but in most cases the existing Sportmasters are run so high that here is really only skeg dragging in the water..... so there would be no change.
Bottom line, is they are going to be expensive, slow to accelerate, fragile, don't shift and only marginally faster........ how does that grab ya?

RT

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

Dont want to derail the thread so I put a post in the Skater section questioning the differences between the Promax and the 2.5.
Any help would be great.

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

They are both 2.5's.......... that is about it.

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

Whew..........!

FW....you are one informed Kanook..........

1. Yes we will run SSM's on the Wing ....haven't decided which ones yet...but with the power to weight ratio that combo will possess, it'll probably never see...nor need........... W.O.T....so it is probably irrelevant.

2. Regarding counter rotation........... The Rolling Thunder Cat had two lefts and two rights......... and props to match... The technology is readily available...and we have it.

3. Regarding acceleration and speedmasters....... Prop slip is a function of prop height, diameter and load....all things being equal smaller props slip easier than big ones....and remember the new center sections...have power LIFT as well as power trim so you can raise your motors coming out of a turn...if you're ambidextrous or....... have a throttleman.....remember,offshore applications utilize multi-engine setups not single....therefore available power is greater...... and acceleration slower than smaller single engine craft.... an equalizing condition.

4. Regarding top end.......and handling...... Here's the beauty..... Top end POTENTIAL is increased with SSM's because even with a surfaced standard gearcase you must run on the ragged edge of water pressure limits to minimize drag....not so with the little bullets...as lower heights with SSM's have less drag loss than with the big "clunkers"....... and having driven a number of A/B comparisons (yes, many of those were done in the "stone age"......for all of those pinheads who think the laws of nature, physics, and performance boating were somehow changed by the arrival of hip hop music)....... The difference between standard units and SSM's , particularly in multi engine applications is like day and night...... Handling is MUCH smoother.....hooking in turns goes away...steering becomes lighter,.... torque action, prop walking, and transom hammering are greatly reduced leaving the boats seeming feather light by comparison....ESPECIALLY in rough water.

T2x

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

Guys this sounds very interesting!!! Why hasn't there been more recreational development here??? It sounds as if the "boat" becomes a more efficient safer boat...with no reverse. can this hudle be overcome?

Fire,T2x this is GREAT!! information

marc

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

The problem....as Fire pointed out is the fact that the SSM's are RACING units only and need special care and frequent rebuilds...(smaller gears, bearings, higher RPM's...etc). Their application in pleasure boating is minimal, as a result......... but as a racing alternative they have some very attractive attributes.

Reverse can be accomplished in one of two ways....a direct reversing powerhead with a two way starter and ignition system (we used that system on one engine on Rolling Thunder)....or a sturdy electric trolling motor that folds out of the way...... similar to the yamaha OB on "Jet Set".

T2x

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

[QUOTE=T2x(yes, many of those were done in the "stone age"......for all of those pinheads who think the laws of nature, physics, and performance boating were somehow changed by the arrival of hip hop music).......
T2x[/QUOTE]

Now Rich, we all know those laws were carved in stone right around the same time you and OG rolled that first round rock down a hill and got an idea :)

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

Actually I got the idea ........and OG wound up marketing it.......

Of course without my plans for an axle, his success was short lived..... :)


T2x

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

I figure 5-8 mph on top end..............

or about 130 on a 28 Skater..........

T2x

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

Are you saying a 28 Skater w/300x's and these Lowers would run 130 mph????

Thats really fast for 640 hp.....whats the HP to speed avg 5 hp per 1mph or so...thats pretty damn efficient.
Think about that for a sec 130mph almost 30feet long 2 stock warr outboards.

Smokin!

maximus

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

I would agree with the 5-8 mph, and agree that the handling would greatly improve........ in all but one area!. The SSM drives have little or no planing surface and have a tendency to invite blowovers to the novice. A good throttle man with a well tuned ass will be wise to this before he/she enters the no no zone.
Thinking about this a little ( my head hurts from the Montreal Grand Prix ), if a pair of old Merc MC1 case could be found, it could easily be the HOT setup on a skater.
Diamond Marine in Ft Lauderdale can make adapter plates, I would have them aerate it to improve time to plane.

T2x, do you have any more pictures of the WING?

RT

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

Come to Clayton...... The boat is awash in fibreglass grindings...... but... The seat mounts are in, the tank bases and bulkheads are in, the transoms are cut and done, All bulkheads have been replaced, rear bottom has been balsa cored and the sponson pads have new plywood and stringers, the spray rail/hull deck joint has been removed and smoothed, hull has been internally glassed to the deck and finished, the various cracks and dings are repaired. The aeleron is 80% complete...and the rear cowls (aprox 24" tapered) await engine installation for fabrication. This has been some project.

I'll try to get some photos this week.......

T2x

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

Too cool!.

My dad is going to be down with a boat....... I kinda have to tag along.

RT

Trade you a ride for that in a 1920 Gold cup boat, with LIBERTY power!.

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

130 is about right...... FW makes a good point about blowover...but that's what proper balance is for....besides the little blades don't have the leverage to lift the bow as readily as the big ones.

I'm not sure if Mercury will warrantee the 300x with SSM's, but there should be no penalty on the the powerhead mounted on an adapted center section.

By the way....the 2.5's would also bolt right up...with less modifications.... and gain almost as much speed methinks.

One caveat....these combos will not carry weight as well as the standard units so look for bigger penalties with fuel loads and added passengers.

T2x

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

It's a deal...... but, don't forget Sherlock and Darren.

T2x

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

Here are the new "x's"..... Photo courtesy of Scream and Fly.


T2x

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

When is the Clayton show?

Oh Rob, I expect a close up and personal tour of that gold cup boat real soon :)

Re: What will replace the 2.5 offshore ???
 

Me too............ they have to get it finished!. Clayton is Aug 19-21 ( I think ) I have never been, My dad goes when it is on.

You would not believe the motor.......... all 4000 lbs of it, and all 24 spark plugs, and all 12 gallons of oil, and all 8" of exhaust!.