Re: Performance Boating License
 

Here in Ontario, they have made boating licenses mandatory with a phased implementation.
The following are the laws of who needs to have a license:
All operators born after April 1, 1983 have to be licensed by September 15, 1999
All operators of craft under 4 m in length, including personal watercraft have to be licensed September 15, 2002
All other operators have to be licensed by September 15, 2009

To get your license, you have to pass a multiple choice exam which is not easy. The government states that the cost of this program is financed by the fees to take the license but I doubt that this is the case.

Having boated all my life, I can tell you that the only times that I have had close calls is with Houseboat rentals and Jet Ski's. The Jet Ski's are the main reason why this program was put in place, not high performance boating. So far, I have not seen it make any difference with the people who ride the Jet Ski's.

Re: Performance Boating License
 

There is an article in Power and MotorYacht this month about insurance. The insurance companies loss due to hurricane damage is the reason the cost is so high. It's not just the performance market, even the larger vessels are getting slammed.

Re: Performance Boating License
 

They made it mandantory for Jeskiers to get licenses in NJ. They also had to take a boating safety course. I really don't have a problem with it.

Maybe insurance co's should give a discount if you participate in an optional boating safety and license agreement.

Re: Performance Boating License
 

First of all, if you don't fit into the category below, please exclude yourself before getting p*ssed at me.

Licensing:

It won't make a difference.
You can't legislate common sense.
It sure doesn't work with cars!

People are supposed to learn how to spell,too.
And they are supposed to be tested before they get out of school.
Read some of the posts on this board and you will see how it worked.

Jacking up my insurance and making me take (another) course won't make me any safer of a boater than I already am after 20 years.

Maybe the solution is this: If you can afford a 100 mph plus boat (and we all know how much each extra mph costs after about 60) maybe you should pay a lot for insurance and carry some of the responsibility for the heavy risk you have assumed.

The ability to go 100mph and more on the water carries with it certain risks. Don't just sign up for the fun. Sign up for the responsibility too.

Re: Performance Boating License
 

I am leaving to go to the Catalina Ski Race and won't be back until Monday. I just wanted to leave with a couple of comments.

1. I believe at the very minimum every watercraft owner should be required to complete a USCG exam. At least everyone will know the rules of the road out there.

2. How in the hell can you say that it does not work for automobile driver license's, can you imagine what the roads would be like out there if nobody had a clear understanding of what the driving rules were :eek: :eek:

Re: Performance Boating License
 

what they should do is start making the right party responsible for accidents, for instance if you are on a jet ski and drive into the path of an oncoming boat and get your azz run over, you should be responsible for that accident, not the other way around. I have had a few close call with jet ski's and it is always there fault. i was just going straight and fast, and the next thing you know there is a jet ski in front of me doing donuts in the middle of the lake, if I had it my way I would run there dumb azz over.

Re: Performance Boating License
 

Hot water:

I think that everyone should be required to take the same safe boating course that I elected to take on my own. But even if they did, most people go back to doing whatever they want to do anyway.

How the hell can I say it doesn't work for autos?
I can say it doesn't work for autos, because I drive on the road with these incompetent idiots every day. I can't imagine that these fools are picking up anything in driver's ed... and if they are, it has been forgotten. Most do not exhibit a "clear understanding" of what the rules are.

By the way, licenses can't possess anything. Therefore the plural form of "license" is "licenses."
Not "License's"
See, you learned that in school, but that doesn't mean it stuck.
(maybe you don't care, maybe it was an oversight, maybe just a mistake, but that's exactly my point)
You can "teach" anybody anything, it's whether they maintain and use that knowledge...

Re: Performance Boating License
 

No on the license thing. Just another way to take our $. I agree on taking courses. Especially for 1st time owners.

The really just need to give an "Idiot Test". If you are an idoit you do not drive a boat, and maybe the car too. :D There are too many people out on the water that shoulnd't be at the helm.

Re: Performance Boating License
 

You think everyone should be required to take the same class you did. Good. I think so too. I assume you think they should because it shows responsibility and they will learn stuff. Perhaps the class could be improved and reflect real world conditions and require a passing grade. You know, force them to pay attention. Even a complete dope might get info to save his or someone else's life. If they are made to take it, they need to prove it. Ergo a license. See the connection.

It works for Autos because if you break the rules and are caught, you are fined. Further, if you screw up bad enough, you can lose the right to drive. If you are a known and repeat offender, you should share more in the cost of insurance. You pay a higher rate, while I get a break. This sound familiar? Driver's Ed teaches young adults how to handle a car. Get real world education so they can apply what they have learned in class. Because you see people who screw up, doesn't mean that training and teaching doesn't help.

In your world, people sit back and either get it or don't it seems. No sense trying to force training so our kids are safe because some people will never get it.

By the way, your spelling analogy is weak at best and sounds a little arrogant and pompous.

Re: Performance Boating License
 

Ditto on both points.
Last year i was hit in my car while going straight inthe right lane by a guy in a Lexus SC (POS) with his family in the car including a baby in a baby seat.
Somehow i was found to be HALF responsible. I know M*******s hate jersey guys in vettes but this is F**kin ridiculous. If the people at fault were forced to pay for what they screwed up insurance would be a lot better.
On a plus note, when some drunk kid tried to steal my boat he ended up paying over 3000 or damages caused cuz he was a moron. although i wish i cought him and knocked his dumb a$$ into the canal. I cant imagine what would have happened to my insurance if i put a claim in.

Re: Performance Boating License
 

What you are talking about is called "no fault" insurance. Years ago, 20 or 30 I think, insurance companies and politicians got together and decided to split costs in accidents without determining fault. At the time, you had to wait to have your car fixed until they decided who's fault it was. That way it could be determined how much each company paid. Your insurance company would not lay out funds if it wasn't your fault, That meant investigations, law suits, court proccedings and lastly higher rates tied to these expenses. You should be glad there is no fault as all cars get fixed super fast which means you are back on the road faster.

Re: Performance Boating License
 

Looks like most folks think a license is what people need....

Re: Performance Boating License
 

Nolimits,
i know about no fault insurance, that what they have in jersey, i guess its the same way in MA. I still had to pay half my deductible though for getting hitl. I hate no fault insurance. My body shop gets the job done fast whether im paying for it or inurance, and for that my whole family sends their cars to them. my insurance also went up which is complete BS.

Re: Performance Boating License
 

oh is there no fault insurance onthe water too? or is it decided by the individual states?

Re: Performance Boating License
 

I agree. You would have to sue for your deductible.... who'd do that. Still no fault speeds what was a mess years ago. The guy that screws up and causes the accident ultimately does get a percentage of blame which I believe effects his rates...

Re: Performance Boating License
 

Don't know, but don't think so. I have never used it, I just pay it... and pay it.... and

Re: Performance Boating License
 

Only My 2 Cents. If Seen Too Many New Boaters Reg & Hi Performance With No Brains!! Something Has To Be Done. Even If New & Old Boaters Have To Take A Test Like Cars. It May Cut Down Wrecks, Insurance Prices, Etc. I Will Be The First In Line To Take It If It Will Help. :)

Re: Performance Boating License
 

liscencing will NEVER lower insurance rates. If the insurance interests lobby for it, they'll do so supposedly to keep increases "to a minimum"...yea right! :rolleyes: As settlement costs and overall values continue to go up, so will rates, period. You're gonna pay the same outrageous premiums, do so without big brother along for the ride.

Not to mention big brother will see the process as a cash cow, and milk it for all it's worth. :blaster:

Re: Performance Boating License
 

what doesnt make any sense to me is that here in Jersey in order to operate a PWC you need to take a class but if you have enuff $$$ you can go buy a 42 skater that'll run well over 125mph and the day they pick it up have absolutely ZERO idea how to run this boat. on the other hand you may have owned numerous V-bottoms now ya wanna go to a cat but have no idea how to really run one. i believe that not only for there sake but also for everyone else's there should definately be a class/course of some sort. i would sign up right now just because...

Re: Performance Boating License
 

WILDTHING TAZ I"M WITH YA 100%...and i've lived on the water for 30 years and have been boating for almost 20 and have owned over 12 different styles of boats and everyone is different. there should definatley be an actual on the water test NO DOUBT

Re: Performance Boating License
 

In 1982 Franz Kneissl ans I started a High Performance Safety School in Newport R.I. We only had 5 performance boaters, the rest was Navy Students. In the 1980's at Cigarette we sold the US Customs Boats, I taught a safety class. My point is that the majority of the people who buy high performance boats have HUGE ego's. They cannot and will NOT go to a school.
I think every performance boater SHOULD by LAW take a course in how to run a performance boat. Just because your wallet will let you buy a fast boat your brain may have no idea how to operate it. It is these type of arrogant people who will need a LAW to force there egotistical minds to school.
So as you can tell, just because you can afford a performance boat, most drivers should be at home.
TAKE A COARSE. Let the people who really know what they are doing be safe. :blaster: :blaster: :blaster: :blaster: :blaster:
Most performance boaters are :stupid: :stupid: :stupid: :stupid:

Re: Performance Boating License
 

So with that mentality, the Corvette driver should be taking a different driving test than the mini-van driver? Where does it end? (profiling)

It would have to be one damn long and involved test to be able to say your a performance boater ready for all situations. And if your not? If the State or private entity (whoever's milking this for the $$$) didn't prepare you well enough and something bad happens? You guessed it!!! LITIGATION, which will lead to more hoops for you to jump through that cost more money.

I'm tellin' 'ya....your asking for the beginning of legislating this sport off the earth!!

Have the people here learned nothing in there lifetimes about getting big brother involved?

Everybody *****es about being hassled, new laws, and the expense of performance boating...just wait 'till you cry out to government because you can't keep from harming yourselves.

The manufacturers and dealers bear the responsibility to step up here.

Read my last post again.

It will accomplish NOTHING positive for the masses.

Strictly a feel-good cash cow.

Re: Performance Boating License
 

Well now...that's a unique perspective from a boat builder. :D

Personally, I don't believe licensing would do anything beneficial. "We're from the government, we're here to help..." ahhhh, let me grab my K-Y jelly please. :stupid:

The only potential upside is new fodder for some interesting posts from the outer fringe. This one equates right up there with and may potentially pass the classics like... "V vs CAT", "Step vs Non-Step", "Real Apache or simulated Apache", "My Dad can beat-up your Dad" and so on and so on ad naseum.

Sounds like Lenny has the inside skinny here.


Regulate or modulate with government support ya' better refresh on that classic Frank Zappa tune "Don't fool ya' self girl, it's goin right up the poop chute! (refrain...ohhhh wrist watch crisco!)"

Party On! :drink: :drink:

Re: Performance Boating License
 

Would that "unique perpective" from a boat-builder be becauase all builders would be, in some regards, buffered from liability claims? :eureka:

Re: Performance Boating License
 

If the state or Fed government has anything to do with a boating license it will be screwed up and a total waste of time. I agree people should take some form of practical driving class and no some of the rules of the water however I have taken both the Iowa and Missouri boating safety tests and they are a complete joke. Having a boaters education class similar to a drivers education class may help some people learn how to properly handle a boat however it doesn't work for everyone as there are many terrible drivers on the road even after training and a license process.
One thing is for certain we currently have an excessive amount of laws and layers within the government and I for one am not in favor of any additional big brother intervention.

Re: Performance Boating License
 

Many folks who own truly extreme performance boats DO IN FACT act very responsibily, often having a professional throttle jockey to operate the sticks.

On the other hand other we all have met folks who really DO NOT KNOW what they are doing in any kind of boat, and read/watch the accidents happen.

I am in favor of a big insurance discount to those with high performance boats who take approved on the water training with professionals. Heck I'd be the first to sign up, as I KNOW my skills could use an upgrade if I ever supercharged my boat.

Those who have seen my docking skills in tight quarters might suggest I take the fricking course now! <gg>

Re: Performance Boating License
 

I am surprised that this is the first thread that I am responding to, but it surprising how many people are opposed to a license. I live in Alabama and I had to pass a written test for a boating endorsement. It covered things such as: which vessel has right of way, which side to pass on, proper flotation devices, etc. It didn't cost either, except the cost of a license copy, but I had to get one anyway since I was a new resident.

Will this simple endorsement prevent accidents? Obviously not. Imagine however, that our roads were wide open like the water; no stripes to keep between, no signs to tell us to stop at an intersection, pretty much chaos. I think most of us boaters have a good grasp of right of way and safe passing. But if a license (test) educates only a few people about these topics, what is the problem? Boats are really more dangerous that cars. No seatbelts, no crash testing, and they pull unprotected people. I do a lot of skiing and I have been almost ran over on a couple of occasions due to people not keeping a safe distance prior to my fall.

I don't think it should cost any more than the cost to print a license, no one should profit from safety. I also don't think that there should be a HP or speed clause... I can build a 10 sec. street legal drag car and drive it with my normal driving license. I know the general rules of the road and consequently I won't drive it straight into oncoming traffic pulling a person behind me.

Cheers,
Ben

Re: Performance Boating License
 

I hate to agree, but lets think about this logically. All of us drive cars. Pretend you just moved here from some tiny Pacific Island with no cars. Would you just get in a car and go? Probably would be a good idea to learn the basics. Stay to the right, red means stop, etc. Same applies here. In NY they have been considering a similar. The problem is a power struggle between Department of Motor Vehicles and Dept of Parks and Recreation. Both want to be in control but neither wants to foot the bill.

Re: Performance Boating License
 

"The government that governs least governs best"
Who said that?

Re: Performance Boating License
 

I have been a long time advocate for some type of licensing requirement. I have seen many people that don't belong in a boat much less driving one, add a performance boat to that equation and we have a sum of a catastrophic possibility existing. I will support whatever class or program that anyone would want to start up.

Sean Stinson

Re: Performance Boating License
 

This would just bring up the arguement, what is a performance boat. Does that mean I have be licensed to drive my Eliminator while some unlicensed a-hole runs into me with his Bayliner?

Re: Performance Boating License
 

I say let Darwin sort them out.....

Re: Performance Boating License
 

We need to have a license to drive a car.
Truck drivers need additional licensing.

I think it is easy to just say this is a revenue source for
big brother.

I am aware that the Federal Department of Transportation is
pushing hard on states to make boat operator licensing
mandatory across the US.

The reason, at least the reason forwarded is that
recreational boating is number two in deaths nation wide.
I think this is for recreational motor vehicle activity.
Who knows how many boating injuries are occurring every year,
it must number in the tens of thousands.

With PWC's out there like swarms of bees able to go 50>60
mph and the average boat operating up around 50-mph,
oh yea and us crazies flying around at 70+mph, maybe
it's time for some mandatory licensing. I think it has to be
for all boaters, not just for one group.

Re: Performance Boating License
 

Hell I hate government thinking they can make idiots safe! Hell, that's why we call them idiots! An irressponsible idiot behind the wheel of a boat is always going to be an idiot, even with a license. I would much rather see a Performance Parent License for all the idiot parents out there not even trying to teach responsibility to their offspring! Hell, its easier to have kids than it is to get a drivers license, therein lies the problem!
Whew, that feels better!
Raylar

Re: Performance Boating License
 

I'm not telling what I voted for :D

Re: Performance Boating License
 

Wasabe

It is far later than your bed time.. :p :D

Re: Performance Boating License
 

If you posess a Captain's License, insurance companies should be forced by law to give you MASSIVE discounts. They don't give you crap now, and this is a real license that takes some time to earn and actually makes people safer on the water. My .02.

Re: Performance Boating License
 

Agreed.

Re: Performance Boating License
 

Licenses, boating classes, bull****! Just think about this! Most all of those intelligent, caring, responsible,safe automobile drivers have licenses don't they! Many of them have even taken driver ed. classes! We all know how great most of the clueless drivers are out there on our wonderful highways, don't we! If you think licenses and bureaucracies will get the idiots on the water to drive boats safely then you are more naive than I thought. Best advice, keep your eyes wide open, your hands on the wheel and pray a lot!
Raylar

Re: Performance Boating License
 

Well I guess it depends who instructs you in the training classes. I have taken useful lessons in competitive driving from "name" race drivers and will always listen to those with more experience than I have, in anything.

Same with the boat, always happy to learn from the more experienced OSOers on this board. Some of my most memorable conversations are with the "old dudes" who have been there and done that, before I have.

Nothing beats hands on training, quite different from reading something in a book. Hence, I am in favor of "hands on" training for performance boaters who would like to get insurance discounts for taking the time and spending the money to take high speed boater training. Particularly for cats!!

Nothing required about it, but I'll bet this would please SLy Goldberg who could set up a whole new division and price structure to deal with "lower risk" boaters!